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    (Original post by Toiletpaper8)
    I think the general trend now is that academic jobs are seen as this 'elite' thing, opposed to the thing people do if they have a genuine interest in academic medicine or might want to see if academic medicine is for them because they haven't been exposed to that many opportunities as an undergrad. Unfortunately - the latter is now impossible - as you cannot get an AFP without some previous experience of research because of the way the system works... so it's not really a taster any more... and we have people with PhDs and 3 years of research experience going for these jobs. I don't think it helped to have AFP on the same application form as the normal UKFPO as this has massively increased competition with some people thinking... 'oh I'll just go it for and see what happens' with no real interest in research. More and more people are applying year after year and I'm sure many have no real academic interest - the jobs are just seen as prestigious.

    I think the initial aim of the AFP was to get more people interested in a career in academic medicine - to inspire people, to give people a taster of what it's like. Now I think a lot of it is people applying because it's what people who are good enough do - which obviously deprives people who are less CV orientated in their day to day medical school life (everyone knows people in every medical school who do things purely to pad the CV without a genuine interest or passion) but are genuinely interested and excited by research. This is the system where 5 letters to the editor on Thames AFP (I didn't apply Thames) count for more points than a single, methodologically strong RCT which you yourself designed, conducted and wrote up. This is the system where people pay big money to go to a conference to stick up a poster - great if you get a bursary or funding but not everyone does and not everyone can afford it (plus, from experience, conferences accept virtually everything for posters).

    A proper robust meta-analysis on a big topic may take years to complete and just the search is enough of a pain. If you've completed this and written it up, say even if you've submitted it and it's going through peer review - as long as it isn't published, it counts for nothing at all, not even as much as a published PubMed indexed letter to the editor, which is complete peanuts to produce. This is somewhat an extension of 'publish or perish' - essentially, we are rewarding quantity over quality - we are rewarding low quality but high quantity research output - papers which are completely trash and completely and utterly un-citeable. But what do you expect if you put in place a system that awards points for the sheer number of publications and presentations??

    I don't think it's a problem with the AFP though - but rather academia in general - a problem I'm sure all of us will encounter in our future careers.

    But good luck for cascade and I hope you get a Thames job you want
    Very well said and I couldn't agree more.
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    (Original post by Toiletpaper8)
    I think the general trend now is that academic jobs are seen as this 'elite' thing, opposed to the thing people do if they have a genuine interest in academic medicine or might want to see if academic medicine is for them because they haven't been exposed to that many opportunities as an undergrad. Unfortunately - the latter is now impossible - as you cannot get an AFP without some previous experience of research because of the way the system works... so it's not really a taster any more... and we have people with PhDs and 3 years of research experience going for these jobs. I don't think it helped to have AFP on the same application form as the normal UKFPO as this has massively increased competition with some people thinking... 'oh I'll just go it for and see what happens' with no real interest in research. More and more people are applying year after year and I'm sure many have no real academic interest - the jobs are just seen as prestigious.

    I think the initial aim of the AFP was to get more people interested in a career in academic medicine - to inspire people, to give people a taster of what it's like. Now I think a lot of it is people applying because it's what people who are good enough do - which obviously deprives people who are less CV orientated in their day to day medical school life (everyone knows people in every medical school who do things purely to pad the CV without a genuine interest or passion) but are genuinely interested and excited by research. This is the system where 5 letters to the editor on Thames AFP (I didn't apply Thames) count for more points than a single, methodologically strong RCT which you yourself designed, conducted and wrote up. This is the system where people pay big money to go to a conference to stick up a poster - great if you get a bursary or funding but not everyone does and not everyone can afford it (plus, from experience, conferences accept virtually everything for posters).

    A proper robust meta-analysis on a big topic may take years to complete and just the search is enough of a pain. If you've completed this and written it up, say even if you've submitted it and it's going through peer review - as long as it isn't published, it counts for nothing at all, not even as much as a published PubMed indexed letter to the editor, which is complete peanuts to produce. This is somewhat an extension of 'publish or perish' - essentially, we are rewarding quantity over quality - we are rewarding low quality but high quantity research output - papers which are completely trash and completely and utterly un-citeable. But what do you expect if you put in place a system that awards points for the sheer number of publications and presentations??

    I don't think it's a problem with the AFP though - but rather academia in general - a problem I'm sure all of us will encounter in our future careers.

    But good luck for cascade and I hope you get a Thames job you want
    Maybe Im uninformed but does this really happen (highlighted in bold). I have only ever been paid to present poster at conference. Or are you just talking about conference fees rather than payment to actually present a poster or oral presentation.

    Yes, I do find unfair that a nature paper is counted the same as a 200 word letter to the editor at a random impact factor 0.5 publication. But rest assured, it will be better recognised in the 'real' academic field. E.g. if one produced a single nature/science/cell paper in a PhD (albeit more basic science), that person can almost have the pick of postdocs etc upon graduation.
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    (Original post by Toiletpaper8)
    EPIC STUFF SAID HERE
    But good luck for cascade and I hope you get a Thames job you want
    I must agree with you 100%. I was lucky enough to get Cambridge, but only because their system is different to Thames one. They look at the CV overall, rather than just number of "points" (as Thames do).

    And yes, it is regarded as an elite thing. The problem is tho, how would you distinguish between those who enjoy research and want to be an academic (me, for instance) and those who do it to have a better chance at applying for specialty training (few of my friends did that, without genuine interest in pursuing academia).
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    how does the thames cascade process actually work? Does it take into account your original job rankings or just give you the job that you are the next highest scoring candidate for?
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    (Original post by mrs_bellamy)
    Congratulations!

    (Original post by carcinoma)
    Smashed it!


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    (Original post by Medicine Man)
    Well done dude!! This is SUCH awesome news!

    (Original post by Tech)
    PRSOM, well done buddy!

    Can't believe it - got my second choice program at Newcastle! Also got an offer from Hull, but I'm pretty sure I wanna go all the way north!
    Thank you! I feel very lucky!
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    (Original post by i'm no superman)
    Thank you! I feel very lucky!
    Was it your first choice job?

    Those 3 Academic Anaesthetics jobs are literally the only Thames AFP jobs I'm applying for next year. Is FY1 in Northwick park?
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    Has anyone noticed it says 0 next to all the Thames afp jobs now.. Last night there were 21 jobs that were still vacant. Wonder whether they have released the leftover jobs though it says Wednesday on the website??
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    (Original post by Russia38)
    Has anyone noticed it says 0 next to all the Thames afp jobs now.. Last night there were 21 jobs that were still vacant. Wonder whether they have released the leftover jobs though it says Wednesday on the website??
    I wondered this, but I think it's very unlikely - they'll just have allocated them and will release them on Wednesday morning, I expect.
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    (Original post by Russia38)
    Has anyone noticed it says 0 next to all the Thames afp jobs now.. Last night there were 21 jobs that were still vacant. Wonder whether they have released the leftover jobs though it says Wednesday on the website??

    The situation is the same also for the Severn afp jobs...maybe they are re-organizing the vacancies and that's why every job has now been erased...hopefully!!

    :confused:
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    The vacancies all went to 0 last week before the first round. Don't worry.
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    (Original post by carcinoma)
    Was it your first choice job?

    Those 3 Academic Anaesthetics jobs are literally the only Thames AFP jobs I'm applying for next year. Is FY1 in Northwick park?
    FY1 is Northwick Cardio/Rheum/Breast Surgery and FY2 is Academic/ITU at Marsden/CW A&E

    I was desperate to leave London so, despite wanting to do anaesthetics, it was a big no-no. Plus you couldn't pay me to stay in Imperial trust or set foot in Northwick Park again voluntarily... However, ITU at Marsden is amazing.

    Some people who apply for surgery posts do get placed in that job (from the year before last). This is probably because people who want to be anaesthetists generally don't go down the academic side and academic anaesthesia is a very small field (and everyone knows each other). I hope that helps.
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    Also, I have rotated around all of the clinical attachments on the Academic Anaesthetics job so if you want any further information, I'm happy to provide it when you're thinking of applying. They also host one of only two ACF jobs in London in Anaesthesia.
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    Good luck tomorrow!!!!
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    (Original post by User1634027)
    The vacancies all went to 0 last week before the first round. Don't worry.


    ohhh! thank you!
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    Best of luck tomorrow to everyone on the waiting list!
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    Out of curiosity it seems as though people were either put on reserve list or they were offered a job, does anyone know if anyone was plane out rejected after the interviews?
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    (Original post by Cannula)
    Out of curiosity it seems as though people were either put on reserve list or they were offered a job, does anyone know if anyone was plane out rejected after the interviews?

    People were rejected as well.

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    (Original post by Cannula)
    Out of curiosity it seems as though people were either put on reserve list or they were offered a job, does anyone know if anyone was plane out rejected after the interviews?
    No one gets rejected after interview until all places are filled
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    (Original post by Toiletpaper8)
    No one gets rejected after interview until all places are filled
    Really? The Thames handbook says otherwise.


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    (Original post by Toiletpaper8)
    Also, I have rotated around all of the clinical attachments on the Academic Anaesthetics job so if you want any further information, I'm happy to provide it when you're thinking of applying. They also host one of only two ACF jobs in London in Anaesthesia.
    Thanks mate. I'll get in touch nearer to October for more info. Breast surgery has put me off slightly. I was hoping for a solid grounding In general/GI surgery.

    Also Why do you not like Northwick park or the imperial trust?



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