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Bullying Feminists Is Not The Answer watch

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    (Original post by Dandaman1)
    Don't fabricate things that were never said or even implied. Action should indeed be taken for the benefit of underprivileged girls in Africa. However, there are also a hell of a lot of underprivileged boys - they deserve attention too.
    They were very clearly implied. And of course there are a lot of underprivileged boys, but the UN and UNICEF and other organisations do a lot of work to help both boys and girls. However, as girls are on the whole more underprivileged and their plight is far more prevalent in eastern societies, feminism tackles girls' issues in particular - for the reason that there's more of it. this is because very often, girls suffer BECAUSE they're girls and this is simply not the same with boys. Boys do suffer and it is terrible, but why should there be a separate campaign to help only boys (some TSRians have actually suggested masculinism before) when boys aren't punished DUE to their gender and girls are? Surely worldwide organisations like the ones I've mentioned before are already working on reducing inequality holistically for both girls and boys, but if the work done by feminists slightly favours girls and focuses on female-specific issues more then what's the harm in that? Why is it so bad to augment the help given to girls - they're more underprivileged to begin with in non-western societies (no matter how much you deny it) and therefore they need more help. The work of feminism does not at large stop boys from receiving help, does it?
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    (Original post by ChickenMadness)
    Like Dandaman1 said. It wouldn't matter if it was Sheandhe or heandshe.

    HeFORshe implies that the campaign is completely for the benefit of women. It's like all other campaigns before it that imply men should serve women.
    It isn't meant to imply that men should serve women. You're just assuming that because you're a feminist-hating, stubborn person. It's meant to imply that men should unite with women and be for them, not against them as so many are. It strives for equality and if you can't see that, it's probably because your comprehension is very weak.
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    (Original post by apitchfork)
    So basically you're putting words in their mouth
    I'm not "putting words in their mouth". I don't claim that they've used the exact words "to help women commit paternity fraud". But that is in fact the method of "preserving the peace" that they have chosen. Do you disagree?

    while making the assumption that married women are just rife with illegitimate children.
    When have I assumed such a thing? I recognise that, with the law in France being what it is, it's difficult to know exactly what the prevalence of misattributed paternity might be. But elsewhere, estimates vary from anywhere between 1-2% to 5-10%. In instances where fathers suspect a case of misattributed paternity, it rises to between 17% and 33%.

    And still, paternity testing is not illegal in France! Only illegal without a court order.
    True. But why is it only illegal without a court order, instead of legal for everybody like in the UK? The French government has already stated that it is to "preserve the peace". I don't know what interpretation you think you can attribute to that phrase that would be at odds with my statement that they intend to help women commit paternity fraud.

    Besides, there is a high prevalence of French men who are illegally sending their DNA samples to laboratories in Spain and Switzerland for paternity tests, and risking a year's imprisonment and a fine of 15,000 euros if caught. For some of these laboratories, up to 80% of their customers are French. This shows that courts cannot be relied on to provide court orders whenever fathers wish to find out the paternity of their child.

    The purpose of making paternity testing illegal without a court order, can be for no other reason than to deny some/most men who want them from being able to ascertain the truth of the matter.



    But all of these details are really besides the main point anyway. The fact is that laws of this type exist, which result in serious injustices being committed against men. This has enabled women to continue to misattribute paternity after their infidelity, it has resulted in men unknowingly raising children that aren't theirs, and in some cases it has resulted in men who know perfectly well that their ex-wife's child isn't even theirs (through illegal paternity tests, whose evidence is inadmissible in French courts) still being legally obliged to pay for the financial upkeep of that child. All through no fault of their own, but as a result of women effectively lying, cheating and stealing.

    And so whenever it is claimed that "feminism concerns itself with men's rights too", I'm going to have to ask, where are all the feminists in opposition to laws like this?
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    (Original post by tanyapotter)

    They were very clearly implied. And of course there are a lot of underprivileged boys, but the UN and UNICEF and other organisations do a lot of work to help both boys and girls. However, as girls are on the whole more underprivileged and their plight is far more prevalent in eastern societies, feminism tackles girls' issues in particular - for the reason that there's more of it. this is because very often, girls suffer BECAUSE they're girls and this is simply not the same with boys. Boys do suffer and it is terrible, but why should there be a separate campaign to help only boys (some TSRians have actually suggested masculinism before) when boys aren't punished DUE to their gender and girls are? Surely worldwide organisations like the ones I've mentioned before are already working on reducing inequality holistically for both girls and boys, but if the work done by feminists slightly favours girls and focuses on female-specific issues more then what's the harm in that? Why is it so bad to augment the help given to girls - they're more underprivileged to begin with in non-western societies (no matter how much you deny it) and therefore they need more help. The work of feminism does not at large stop boys from receiving help, does it?
    Please quote the words that clearly implied "We should not help girls, only boys" [or something to that effect].

    What irks me is that when their are issues that affect both boys and girls/men and women, feminists will sell them as 'women's issues' to the public. For example, there was information published a while back mentioning how many girls were out of education in developing nations, and it used this to make a point that girls were disadvantaged here. However, it completely neglected to mention the fact boys were also out of education in equivalent numbers. These sorts of omissions are made all too frequently and diverts the focus of charity.

    And sometimes boys in impoverished nations do suffer for being boys - impressment of child soldiers, for example, is overwhelmingly a male issue.
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    (Original post by MagicNMedicine)
    This is the usual story with men that can't handle feminism.

    Emma Watson made an excellent speech, articulate and full of relevant points.

    Her critics respond with threats to release nude pics - come on seriously.....

    Usually if a woman puts her head above the parapet and speaks out on women's issues the response on social media is to give rape threats and other forms of personal and vulgar abuse.

    Normal people watching the debate can see whats going on and what types of characters are involved on both sides....curiously some of the "anti-feminists" try to claim that they are the ones that are victims and living under oppression....
    "Usually if a woman puts her head above the parapet and speaks out on women's issues the response on social media is to give rape threats and other forms of personal and vulgar abuse."

    And when a man speaks out about feminist hypocrisy, double-standards and gender bias, he's called a woman-hating misogynist.

    "Normal people watching the debate can see whats going on and what types of characters are involved on both sides....curiously some of the "anti-feminists" try to claim that they are the ones that are victims and living under oppression...."

    There are good and bad people on both sides. Sadly, however, only the abusive comments (which I'd argue come from a minority) are focussed on by feminists and the popular media, misrepresenting the dispute and selling a false-dichotomy of good versus evil. Very rarely do I see any of the many civil and perceptive criticisms publicized.

    Emma Watson's speech wasn't without fault. The irony of 'HeForShe' has already been pointed out on this thread, for example, and she also quoted some overused fallacies such as the 'wage gap'.
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    Trying to argue with feminists is like trying to outsing Leeds at Elland Road, there's not many of them, but the ****ers don't half bawl.
 
 
 
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