USA news reports Islamic male beheads woman & attacks people after getting fired Watch

The_Internet
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#21
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#21
(Original post by Reformed)
my reading of the story was he was repeatedly trying to convert his co-workers , and they were telling him to **** off. and perhaps becuase of this he was fired, then he came back to do some beheading
Ah I see. In that scenario, that seems like the best thing they could have done (I mean you dont think someones going to behead you, because you refuse to convert)
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Reformed
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#22
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#22
I hope noone comes on here to says 'its culture nothing to do with islam', FYI this chap wasnt pakistani
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Mazzini
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#23
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(Original post by de_monies)
Wow. Just wow...

Also, if someone is to say "convert" then surely the best thing to do is pretend to convert???
I imagine that would go against other religious teaching, eg I know Christianity teaches that you should not deny your faith in God eg 1 John 2:22-23, Matthew 10:33, 2 Timothy 2:12, etc etc.
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The_Internet
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#24
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(Original post by Mazzini)
I imagine that would go against other religious teaching, eg I know Christianity teaches that you should not deny your faith in God eg 1 John 2:22-23, Matthew 10:33, 2 Timothy 2:12, etc etc.
Ah I guess that would make sense. Would be a cop out, if you're not religious though, or if you're religion is OK with you lying about your religion under certain circumstances (ie: Shia Islam)
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Doctor_Einstein
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#25
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(Original post by de_monies)
Ah I guess that would make sense. Would be a cop out, if you're not religious though, or if you're religion is OK with you lying about your religion under certain circumstances (ie: Shia Islam)
No I think it would be a cop out to blame the victim in these circumstances.
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The_Internet
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#26
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(Original post by Doctor_Einstein)
No I think it would be a cop out to blame the victim in this circumstance.
Who on Earth is blaming the victim??? Also, what on Earth are you on about?
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Doctor_Einstein
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#27
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#27
(Original post by de_monies)
Who on Earth is blaming the victim??? Also, what on Earth are you on about?
I think it is very peripheral to the heart of the matter to say if only they had pretended to convert they would have lived. People shouldn't have to say things to please others just so they can not be killed.

The heart of the issue is that a muslim was killing people who wouldn't convert and under no circumstances should we have to encourage people to lie about their religious beliefs just to keep the peace.
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The_Internet
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#28
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(Original post by Doctor_Einstein)
I think it is very peripheral to the heart of the matter to say if only they had pretended to convert they would have lived. People shouldn't have to say things to please others just so they can not be killed.

The heart of the issue is that a muslim was killing people who wouldn't convert and under no circumstances should we have to encourage people to lie about their religious beliefs just to keep the peace.
Oh no. Of course, what happens in the heat of things, we can't say. It's a wonderful thing is hindsight. You can say "Well what they should have done is... "

And no we shouldn't, and it's not "keeping the peace" It's about not dying when some crazy guy is chopping heads off for not converting. It's easier to pretend, and then report him to the police.
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Doctor_Einstein
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#29
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(Original post by de_monies)
Oh no. Of course, what happens in the heat of things, we can't say. It's a wonderful thing is hindsight. You can say "Well what they should have done is... "

And no we shouldn't, and it's not "keeping the peace" It's about not dying when some crazy guy is chopping heads off for not converting. It's easier to pretend, and then report him to the police.
But some non-religious people out of principle would never wish to even pretend to convert to Islam and I wouldn't blame them. They have every right to stand up for their beliefs even if it means they might die.

If someone chooses to stand up for their atheist beliefs and risk their life for it, I don't think we have the right to say that they shouldn't have stood up to their beliefs like that.
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The_Internet
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#30
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(Original post by Doctor_Einstein)
But some non-religious people out of principle would never wish to even pretend to convert to Islam and I wouldn't blame them. They have every right to stand up for their beliefs even if it means they might die.

If someone chooses to stand up for their atheist beliefs and risk their life for it, I don't think we have the right to say that they shouldn't have stood up to their beliefs like that.
Im pretty sure no one was "standing up for their beliefs" but rather they saw him as a bit of a pest...

Also, my point isn't about "standing up for your beliefs" No one "stood up for their beliefs"

What happened in this scenario was:

Crazy guy gets fired
Crazy guy pesters employees
Employees tell him to piss off
Crazy guy chops someones head off for not converting

I guess it depends on how much you value your life as well???
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Doctor_Einstein
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#31
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#31
(Original post by de_monies)
Im pretty sure no one was "standing up for their beliefs" but rather they saw him as a bit of a pest...

Also, my point isn't about "standing up for your beliefs" No one "stood up for their beliefs"

What happened in this scenario was:

Crazy guy gets fired
Crazy guy pesters employees
Employees tell him to piss off
Crazy guy chops someones head off for not converting

I guess it depends on how much you value your life as well???
Yes well if we are considering what really happened, then it makes no sense to even pretend you have changed to become a muslim as you suggested because the people didn't know they were going to get killed. But I think when you said one should pretend, you were referring to the case where he is threatened with his life if he doesn't convert, and that is the scenario I was responding to.
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SnoochToTheBooch
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#32
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Well I am shocked to the core, I never in a million years would have expected the religion of peace to crop up. I mean, it's not as if the ancient book states that they should kill the unbelievers or anything like that.
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Jingers
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#33
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#33
Misleading title - Article doesn't even say he attacked people for refusing to convert.
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caravaggio2
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#34
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#34
A muslim "goes into a fit of rage " because he didnt get what he wanted?

That doesnt sound right surely
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Skip_Snip
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#35
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#35
(Original post by de_monies)
Threatened with execution if you don't convert

"Convert"

Dont really convert, and then go the police. Simples
Sir Thomas More for instance, burned alive for refusing to recant his Catholicism, must have been kicking himself as the flames licked higher that it never occurred to him to say .... "I recant my Catholicism. "
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TheTechN1304
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#36
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#36
"They're not proper muslims"
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The_Internet
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#37
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(Original post by Skip_Snip)
Sir Thomas More for instance, burned alive for refusing to recant his Catholicism, must have been kicking himself as the flames licked higher that it never occurred to him to say .... "I recant my Catholicism. "

That's a wrong comparison to make. That was centuries ago when you couldn't just pretend and get away with it. You couldn't just tell the police. The king was pretty unaccountable as well

In the modern day its easy to pretend and then go to the police
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IdeasForLife
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#38
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(Original post by Reformed)
the news on this has been surprisingly sparse but this is the link

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/world...e-9758872.html
Misleading title, nowhere in the article does it say he attacked his colleagues because they wouldn't convert.

Alton Nolen, an employee at Vaughan Foods in Oklahoma, went into a fit of rage after he was sacked from his job at the food plant, said a police statement.
More likely he lost it because he got fired... Your attempt to demonise Muslims with the misleading title is quite pathetic.

A police spokeswoman said Nolen had “recently been trying to convert some of his co-workers to the Muslim faith”. The statement went on to suggest the workers were attacked at random.
Article didn't say he attacked because they refused to convert, neither does it say that colleagues didn't convert(or were atleast not interested in islam).

According to the Oklahoma Department of Corrections Nolen has been convicted in the past for marijuana possession, intent to distribute cocaine, escape from detention and assault on a police officer.
It seems he already has a history of violence(and other bad habits) before this.
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Reformed
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#39
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#39
(Original post by IdeasForLife)
Misleading title, nowhere in the article does it say he attacked his colleagues because they wouldn't convert.
the witnesses say when questioned about the attack he was sacked for trying to convert people

(Original post by IdeasForLife)
More likely he lost it because he got fired... Your attempt to demonise Muslims with the misleading title is quite pathetic.
he was fired for trying to convert people to islam. he was a muslim, he came back and beheaded people. i know you are doing everything to subvert logical and pretend that isalm has never anything to do with crime - sometimes it does, you have no choice but accept it. people get fied al the time, why choose to behead someone? becuase the very act is islamic ( in the quran) islam doesnt need anyone else to demonise , it can do so from its own influence it seems.

(Original post by IdeasForLife)
Article didn't say he attacked because they refused to convert, neither does it say that colleagues didn't convert(or were atleast not interested in islam).
yes it did, also read the 2nd link i posted for more details


(Original post by IdeasForLife)
It seems he already has a history of violence(and other bad habits) before this.
again as i said before, he had a criminal history ( not of beheading though) often these sorts of people are drawn to islam as we know. once influnced by islam, he actually went ahead and beheaded someone. similar to the other cases we have heard where converts have beheaded people
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IdeasForLife
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#40
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#40
(Original post by Reformed)
the witnesses say when questioned about the attack he was sacked for trying to convert people

he was fired for trying to convert people to islam. he was a muslim, he came back and beheaded people. i know you are doing everything to subvert logical and pretend that isalm has never anything to do with crime - sometimes it does, you have no choice but accept it. people get fied al the time, why choose to behead someone? becuase the very act is islamic ( in the quran) islam doesnt need anyone else to demonise , it can do so from its own influence it seems.

yes it did, also read the 2nd link i posted for more details

again as i said before, he had a criminal history ( not of beheading though) often these sorts of people are drawn to islam as we know. once influnced by islam, he actually went ahead and beheaded someone. similar to the other cases we have heard where converts have beheaded people
Your article(s) didn't give a reason for the sacking but I'll assume that it was because he attempted to convert people, just for the sake of this reply. Cool lets start. Killing people for refusing to convert and killing people for getting fired are two different situations which arise from different causes(regardless of the conclusion). If he did kill them for refusing to convert then why did he wait till after he got fired? Surely as soon as they said no, he could've gone home and fetched his knife. But no. He only came back to work in a rage(with a weapon) after they sacked him. So this would point in the direction that he attacked people because he got sacked(and not because they refused to convert).

As the article also mentioned, the report suggested that he attacked people at random. Now if someone refused to convert and he got pissed off at them, then he would attack the person who refused, not just any random person at work.

I've read your second article too. So it says:

Alton Nolen – who has photos of Osama Bin Laden on a Facebook page under the name Jah’Keem Yisrael – was called into the management offices of the food-distribution company Thursday morning and fired for reasons that were not revealed publicly.

The tattooed ex-con, 30, stormed out of the plant and sped away in his car — but returned with a vengeance at around 4 p.m.

He allegedly barged inside and grabbed the long, thin-bladed knife he used while working there and turned it on the first person he saw, sources said.
It backs up what I said( thanks for pointing me towards it), he only went rage mode after he got fired, so it once again implies he killed (random) colleagues because he got fired(and not because they wouldn't convert to Islam).

You're trying too hard to blame this on Islam. Islam doesn't allow the killing of innocent people(nor forcing them to convert).

Try better next time, I rate your argument a 1/10.
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