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TSR Racists?
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Original post by Wahid-r
And what is that view exactly? That criticism of an ideology is racist? That pointing out that a large percentage of the Muslim population hold views that are anathema to rights of freedom is racist?
Would anyone be able to criticise/satirise Islam publicly in an Islamic state as much as they wanted? No. So straight away here's an issue, before we even get on to homosexuality and apostasy, rights of women, laws governing sex. People have a right and a duty to speak up about this stuff.
I'm not dealing in absolutes so I don't claim that it is ALL muslims before anyone starts making those accusations. I'm talking about the ideology itself, and the views of a large percentage of adherents of the ideology.
Would anyone be able to criticise/satirise Islam publicly in an Islamic state as much as they wanted? No. So straight away here's an issue, before we even get on to homosexuality and apostasy, rights of women, laws governing sex. People have a right and a duty to speak up about this stuff.
I'm not dealing in absolutes so I don't claim that it is ALL muslims before anyone starts making those accusations. I'm talking about the ideology itself, and the views of a large percentage of adherents of the ideology.
Thanks for reply.
There are problems in the belief system, as you say, agreed!
Though, regarding the point about laws/society: There seems to be a difference in what people believe in and act on an individual level, and that at the societal level. As mentioned, I don't feel that our foreign policy (which is terrible) would reflect on us in any way. Though I feel this point is somewhat complex to go into.
The belief system, like that of other major religions, has some rather detrimental aspects (as you mentioned, homophobia, sexual discrimination/subjugation etc.).
I feel these should be targeted and pressurised. Like anyone else here (hopefully), such beliefs really disgust me.
The problem I have is that it is often suggested that 1.6 billion are homogeneous in their beliefs and behavior, painting them all with the same brush so to speak.
I have no problem at all with people targeting beliefs. I totally endorse it. But to say that Islam has negative aspects and so all Muslims are bad people would be a really immoral assertion to make. It's never really reasonable to make such sweeping statements about any group.
No rants at me anyone please - though happy to discuss
Original post by Achaea
There is indeed mountains of evidence, yes. if you'd to learn more, you could do a lot worse than read Dawkins' The Blind Watchmaker or The Greatest Show on Earth. Dawkins can be an arse, but his books on evolution are great.
Funny you should say this I'm actually starting to learn about some of the things atheists believe in. I've been asking them a few questions particularly revolving arund evolution since it's something I'm ignorant of. Loool Darwin confuses me tbh but maybe one day I will read some of his books.
Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by Plantagenet Crown
There are mountains of it. Interesting fact, did you know that we now have more evidence for human evolution than for the Theory of Gravity? I was quite shocked when I found that out 
Loool no I did not actually. I shall learn about them though, rather interesting tbh.
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Original post by beautifulxxx
Funny you should say this I'm actually starting to learn about some of the things atheists believe in. I've been asking them a few questions particularly revolving arund evolution since it's something I'm ignorant of. Loool Darwin confuses me tbh but maybe one day I will read some of his books.
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Posted from TSR Mobile
Evolution isn't a belief. You don't "believe" in evolution, you either accept it or you don't accept it. Evolution is basically a FACT
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Original post by beautifulxxx
Ah okay. "Mountains of evidence"
I'd like to debate but don't have enough scientific knowledge I think. Thanks 4 your answer anyway
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I'd like to debate but don't have enough scientific knowledge I think. Thanks 4 your answer anywayPosted from TSR Mobile
If Christian theologians can accept human evolution (though they believe it was guided rather than natural), why can't Muslims?
Original post by Dima-Blackburn
If Christian theologians can accept human evolution (though they believe it was guided rather than natural), why can't Muslims?
Tell me how you can reconcile a 90ft man made out of clay and the idea that humans have been becoming progressively shorter since the time of adam (as) with the theory of evolution
Posted from TSR Mobile
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Dima-Blackburn
If Christian theologians can accept human evolution (though they believe it was guided rather than natural), why can't Muslims?
Well because we have our own beliefs. Wasn't even aware christians accepted it, so they don't believe in Adam and Eve?
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Original post by beautifulxxx
Well because we have our own beliefs. Wasn't even aware christians accepted it, so they don't believe in Adam and Eve?
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Posted from TSR Mobile
It would probably be best to ask a Christian. But the Christians I know do not take Genesis literally.
Original post by beautifulxxx
Well because we have our own beliefs. Wasn't even aware christians accepted it, so they don't believe in Adam and Eve?
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Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by Dima-Blackburn
It would probably be best to ask a Christian. But the Christians I know do not take Genesis literally.
Many christians don't believe in a literal Adam or Eve, but this puts them in an impossible position as then original sin isn't literal either which very few, if any christians, are willing to accept.
I'm not a Muslim, but even I can see, Muslims are in the news. A lot.
But that doesn't mean all muslims should be sterotyped or hated. If you got something to say that could be interpreted badly... maybe... just for once... it's not worth saying...
At the end of the day, it's there religion, we should not be telling people what to believ and why because of a select few we see in the news.
Just my view on it...
But that doesn't mean all muslims should be sterotyped or hated. If you got something to say that could be interpreted badly... maybe... just for once... it's not worth saying...
At the end of the day, it's there religion, we should not be telling people what to believ and why because of a select few we see in the news.
Just my view on it...
Original post by MessedUpKid
I'm not a Muslim, but even I can see, Muslims are in the news. A lot.
But that doesn't mean all muslims should be sterotyped or hated. If you got something to say that could be interpreted badly... maybe... just for once... it's not worth saying...
At the end of the day, it's there religion, we should not be telling people what to believ and why because of a select few we see in the news.
Just my view on it...
But that doesn't mean all muslims should be sterotyped or hated. If you got something to say that could be interpreted badly... maybe... just for once... it's not worth saying...
At the end of the day, it's there religion, we should not be telling people what to believ and why because of a select few we see in the news.
Just my view on it...
We are indeed. Well you get the gulible idiots who believe everything, then the intelligent people who make their own research. As a normal, casual 16 yr old Muslim girl I'll tell its annoying to constantly be blamed, stereoptyed and judged. But that's life lol; and some Muslims in all honesty do stupid things.
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Original post by Plantagenet Crown
There are mountains of it. Interesting fact, did you know that we now have more evidence for human evolution than for the Theory of Gravity? I was quite shocked when I found that out
Tried to find some article or other, concerning the bold part - I failed. There were a few pages which were discussing whether or not Evolution(not specific to one particular species) is more firmed established then gravity but nothing which implied what you said.
Got any links or sources for me to read?
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by beautifulxxx
Well because we have our own beliefs. Wasn't even aware christians accepted it, so they don't believe in Adam and Eve?
Posted from TSR Mobile
Posted from TSR Mobile
Some don't, some do. Fundamentalists Christians most likely wouldn't accept evolution since they take the bible literally, liberal Christians probably don't take Genesis literally so they may accept evolution. It'll probably vary from sect to sect too.
Original post by beautifulxxx
We are indeed. Well you get the gulible idiots who believe everything, then the intelligent people who make their own research. As a normal, casual 16 yr old Muslim girl I'll tell its annoying to constantly be blamed, stereoptyed and judged. But that's life lol; and some Muslims in all honesty do stupid things.
Posted from TSR Mobile
Posted from TSR Mobile
But then, many people do stupid things... I just fail to understand why people continue to stereotype others, not just in religion, but in race to!! At the end of the day... you should never judge a person. I mean, my family are indian, and my dad works in telecoms. The other day he was doing a survey or something at an airport, and because he is an asian man, some RANDOM people reported him to airport security and he was detained. DESPITE THE FACT HE WAS WEARING AIRPORT ID. Like really?
There are more white terrorists than asian terrorists, and yet in airports, white people make up 19% of stops, Asian people 41%, black people 10% and others (including Middle Eastern and Chinese) 30%.
I'm not saying all white people are terrorists, or anything like that, I just find it irritating how people stereotype far too much!!!
Original post by hellodave5
Though, regarding the point about laws/society: There seems to be a difference in what people believe in and act on an individual level, and that at the societal level. As mentioned, I don't feel that our foreign policy (which is terrible) would reflect on us in any way. Though I feel this point is somewhat complex to go into.
Though, regarding the point about laws/society: There seems to be a difference in what people believe in and act on an individual level, and that at the societal level. As mentioned, I don't feel that our foreign policy (which is terrible) would reflect on us in any way. Though I feel this point is somewhat complex to go into.
The difference is that I as a British citizen do not subscribe to an ideology that holds the foreign policies of the government. A significant proportion of Muslims do subscribe to the ideological principles practised in those states. Islam is anti-freedom of speech, it does not allow satire.
As we've seen on this thread, some people (who we would otherwise call moderates) will quite proudly say they would physically assault someone who is insulting their religion.
The belief system, like that of other major religions, has some rather detrimental aspects (as you mentioned, homophobia, sexual discrimination/subjugation etc.).
I feel these should be targeted and pressurised. Like anyone else here (hopefully), such beliefs really disgust me.
I feel these should be targeted and pressurised. Like anyone else here (hopefully), such beliefs really disgust me.
I hope you realise that these issues are not merely issues in some backward part of the Earth where we can argue that it's the culture and not the 'religion of peace' that is causing it, the Muslim community in this country has these issues as well.
Christianity in this country is a lot more mature than Islam.
The problem I have is that it is often suggested that 1.6 billion are homogeneous in their beliefs and behavior, painting them all with the same brush so to speak.
I have no problem at all with people targeting beliefs. I totally endorse it. But to say that Islam has negative aspects and so all Muslims are bad people would be a really immoral assertion to make. It's never really reasonable to make such sweeping statements about any group.
I have no problem at all with people targeting beliefs. I totally endorse it. But to say that Islam has negative aspects and so all Muslims are bad people would be a really immoral assertion to make. It's never really reasonable to make such sweeping statements about any group.
That's not a view that was endorsed in the video, Affleck was projecting a view that neither Harris or Maher hold. They were not saying that every Muslim holds those views.
An important point was dwarfed by Affleck's tantrum, the left really are very poor with Islam, they're giving it a lot of protection when they should be opposing it. Madness.
The whole ISIS/suicide bomber argument is such a red herring. Everyone knows that Islam does not support suicide bombing. We should be focusing on topics like homosexuality, freedom of speech, apostasy which are an issue that apologists can't explain away.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by MessedUpKid
But then, many people do stupid things... I just fail to understand why people continue to stereotype others, not just in religion, but in race to!! At the end of the day... you should never judge a person. I mean, my family are indian, and my dad works in telecoms. The other day he was doing a survey or something at an airport, and because he is an asian man, some RANDOM people reported him to airport security and he was detained. DESPITE THE FACT HE WAS WEARING AIRPORT ID. Like really?
There are more white terrorists than asian terrorists, and yet in airports, white people make up 19% of stops, Asian people 41%, black people 10% and others (including Middle Eastern and Chinese) 30%.
I'm not saying all white people are terrorists, or anything like that, I just find it irritating how people stereotype far too much!!!
There are more white terrorists than asian terrorists, and yet in airports, white people make up 19% of stops, Asian people 41%, black people 10% and others (including Middle Eastern and Chinese) 30%.
I'm not saying all white people are terrorists, or anything like that, I just find it irritating how people stereotype far too much!!!
Indeed I agree with you 100% here. What happened to your dad is really horrible, is he okay? Well what can I say? We live in an evil, manipulative world where certain individuals consider themselves superior to others hence they are racist, they discriminate, hate and cause all sorts of mischief. We have to endure it with patience I suppose. As a Muslim who believes in paradise, I try not to waste too much emotion on this planet and focus on gaining everlasting peace in the hereafter. Let people say what they have to say, it'll be their loss in the end trust me.
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Original post by IdeasForLife
Tried to find some article or other, concerning the bold part - I failed. There were a few pages which were discussing whether or not Evolution(not specific to one particular species) is more firmed established then gravity but nothing which implied what you said.
Got any links or sources for me to read?
Got any links or sources for me to read?
I typed it into google and a few links came up saying it. Admittedly, there aren't any articles on it as such, but I didn't get it from an article. It came after the discovery of human chromosome number 2 being a fusion of 2 simian ones, undeniable proof of our common ancestry. That, added to the numerous other facts, including that the graviton hasn't yet been discovered, concluded that evolution is more firmly established. I'm sure I can find quotes of scientists saying this.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Wahid-r
The difference is that I as a British citizen do not subscribe to an ideology that holds the foreign policies of the government. A significant proportion of Muslims do subscribe to the ideological principles practised in those states. Islam is anti-freedom of speech, it does not allow satire.
As we've seen on this thread, some people (who we would otherwise call moderates) will quite proudly say they would physically assault someone who is insulting their religion.
I hope you realise that these issues are not merely issues in some backward part of the Earth where we can argue that it's the culture and not the 'religion of peace' that is causing it, the Muslim community in this country has these issues as well.
Christianity in this country is a lot more mature than Islam.
That's not a view that was endorsed in the video, Affleck was projecting a view that neither Harris or Maher hold. They were not saying that every Muslim holds those views.
An important point was dwarfed by Affleck's tantrum, the left really are very poor with Islam, they're giving it a lot of protection when they should be opposing it. Madness.
The whole ISIS/suicide bomber argument is such a red herring. Everyone knows that Islam does not support suicide bombing. We should be focusing on topics like homosexuality, freedom of speech, apostasy which are an issue that apologists can't explain away.
As we've seen on this thread, some people (who we would otherwise call moderates) will quite proudly say they would physically assault someone who is insulting their religion.
I hope you realise that these issues are not merely issues in some backward part of the Earth where we can argue that it's the culture and not the 'religion of peace' that is causing it, the Muslim community in this country has these issues as well.
Christianity in this country is a lot more mature than Islam.
That's not a view that was endorsed in the video, Affleck was projecting a view that neither Harris or Maher hold. They were not saying that every Muslim holds those views.
An important point was dwarfed by Affleck's tantrum, the left really are very poor with Islam, they're giving it a lot of protection when they should be opposing it. Madness.
The whole ISIS/suicide bomber argument is such a red herring. Everyone knows that Islam does not support suicide bombing. We should be focusing on topics like homosexuality, freedom of speech, apostasy which are an issue that apologists can't explain away.
I do get your point generally... Though the point about them being TSR responses make me feel somewhat unsure about their validity if I'm honest (you do get some characters here, it would seem - and that it is online).
Also, surely it would depend how you were to approach their beliefs - if someone verbally attacked me generally to a great enough extent, despite being a pacifist, a physical response is always possible.
Same If I verbally attacked a Christian, saying such and such, then I would probably expect a physical response.
Yeah, I totally agree with all of your statements there mate!
Particularly the points of what should be focused on for change, which as you suggest, are really quite anachronistic.
On a societal level I view it as a huge huge problem, and still a problem at the individual level but to a lesser degree - as not everyone believes everything they're told (luckily).
But would you suggest that most 'Muslims' adhere to the anachronistic and immoral aspects of the doctrine that they associate with?
I have a lot of Muslim family (I'm half Moroccan), and they are quite well educated, and don't hold views in line with the negative aspects of Islam. Surely there are other factors which contribute to both religiosity and 'inflexibility' when it comes to following their belief system?
Surely it is that in this country at least, most people don't strictly follow the religion which they identify with, in the West at least. Though there are as you say lots that do; but really the predominant portion?
Why do you think it is that Islam as a whole isn't changing, whilst religions such as Christianity are becoming more flexible? Unity (lack of) and divide of wealth and power on an international global level? Surely it's quite a complex problem with lots of different factors.
In need of sociologists lol.
(P.S Argh... All this reminds me how stupid humans are, with all the stuff they believe in. Brainwashing FTL).
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by hellodave5
Ive been on this site for only a week and ive seen a ton of disgusting racism, sexism, transphobia etc, it's a real problem here , has anyone else noticed??
If you see any racists/discrimination here either report it or argue back.
Alienvoid x
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