How could Imperial stop being the &quot;oxbridge&quot; rejects uni and be their #1?

love2learn7

Can i just ask before i make suggestions- what are Imperials finances like?? Do they have "money in the pot"?

Well.. (note it's 4 years old tho)

Guardian

British universities are not simply throwing up their hands, though. The wealthiest are fighting increasingly hard for available talent, opening their wallets to fund the campaign. Imperial College now starts professors at £45,000 - a figure that can often fend off competition from British, if not American, institutions, according to Sir Richard.

and..

Business Week

At Imperial College, Sykes is toying with an even more radical plan. He would like to be able to charge $17,000 to $25,000 for some programs, such as medicine and engineering, in order to have enough money to provide scholarships for talented but needy students. He notes that even if the government's proposal is approved, Imperial will lose $1,700 per student a year.. "We have to be given more financial flexibility to charge for what we do," he says.

Take from that what you will...

fais

Reply 21

love2learn7

Can i just ask before i make suggestions- what are Imperials finances like?? Do they have "money in the pot"?

Suggest anyway!

It's not like any of this is going to happen anyway.. :rolleyes:

Except perhaps raising the entrance reqs to AAA+..

fais

Reply 22

billydisco

OP

3

fais

Suggest anyway!

It's not like any of this is going to happen anyway.. :rolleyes:

Except perhaps raising the entrance reqs to AAA+..

fais

it would be hard to do the collegiate idea geographically

i think having tutorials and raising requirements are more realistic. By having tutorials one-one or other small sizes will increase teaching standards.

houses/colleges would be nice

Reply 23

love2learn7

it would be hard to do the collegiate idea geographically

i think having tutorials and raising requirements are more realistic. By having tutorials one-one or other small sizes will increase teaching standards.

houses/colleges would be nice

It's all well and good saying that one-one tutorials would increase standards, of course it would. It's just not necessarily practical. At the moment the system works well as it is, if they thought that hiring dozens more tutors would help, they would probably have done so already.

Reply 24

vigo

1

ashy2005

I agree, IC would just disappear into UCL, which ultimately would probably disappear into one "University of London"

The reason why the whole merger was called off though was because UCL academics saw the whole thing as a take over by imperial. The whole debate back then was that IC being stronger in the courses they have in common (science, engineering and medicine which also attract most of the research income and ultimately makes IC richer) would have taken over most of ucl departments making redundant most of the academic staff there. In other words although UCL is a multi-faculty university they were afraid that the latter would have dissapeared into the former. These are not my views, it's what the papers reported about the merger back then.

Reply 25

vigo

The reason why the whole merger was called off though was because UCL academics saw the whole thing as a take over by imperial. The whole debate back then was that IC being stronger in the courses they have in common (science, engineering and medicine which also attract most of the research income and ultimately makes IC richer) would have taken over most of ucl departments making redundant most of the academic staff there. In other words although UCL is a multi-faculty university they were afraid that the latter would have dissapeared into the former. These are not my views, it's what the papers reported about the merger back then.

Oh I didn't realise it would have been the other way around, but I suppose it makes sense. The equivalent IC departments are likely to be stronger the UCL departments. Before long IC is breaking away from the University of London anyway so all this talk about mergers is irrelevent anyway! We're moving further away from the others, not closer! Good thing too!

Reply 26

tuppatopbrer

UCL have the power to award their own degrees, as do LSE I think, or they are making steps towards doing that. Honestly I think ICL withdrawing from UoL will get the ball rolling and incite UCL and LSE to follow suit, which I think will happend eventually (within 5 years).

I dont agree with a collegiate system, at Oxbridge, that has taken years to develop and thrive and I believe it will just create segregation if it happend at ICL.

I agree with edders about reducing intake and raising standards and interviews (200+ for physics is a lot if you ask me). Also I would get rid of or reduce the intake of the less popular (lower standard) courses like Applied Business management, even though this has been removed.

UCL ICL merger would have been interesting and I do think that ICL would have become better off on that. They would have swallowed the comparable depts and secured so much more funding for themselves. ICL LSE merger would be quite interesting two, but there would have been no cost cutting and the campuses are far apart, and I dont see the point, unless ICL had an input in some of LSE degrees (ie Mathematics taught by ICL for the LSE economics degrees so on, or if LSE and ICL undergrad had to take Science and Social Sciences options respectively.

I think/believe ICL do have some money. They raise a lot of money from their spin off countries, and I have heard that it is the closest to a corporate entity than any other uni in the UK. I think their trying to follow in the US unis footsteps.

Reply 27

switchday

well, even though i didn't get into cambridge, i preferred imperial anyway because:

- it's in london
- it's better for my course
- it's new and shiny
- the facilities for students are better (because the uni's very rich)

Reply 28

switchday

well, even though i didn't get into cambridge, i preferred imperial anyway because:

- it's in london
- it's better for my course
- it's new and shiny
- the facilities for students are better (because the uni's very rich)

But had you got into Cambridge, where would you have gone?

fais

Reply 29

fais

But had you got into Cambridge, where would you have gone?

fais

That's the toughest question of all. To be absolutely honest I would of course have taken them up on their offer, but I would probably have regretted it after a short while. I am very happy now to be going where I'm going, and almost relieved that I did get rejected from Cam. Just my two cents there :p:

Reply 30

billydisco

OP

3

it is very annoying because most of the time IC is beter than oxbridge for our courses BUT its that fact that oxbridge opens up so many doors and its very hard/tricky to get in.

Reply 31

ashy2005

That's the toughest question of all. To be absolutely honest I would of course have taken them up on their offer, but I would probably have regretted it after a short while. I am very happy now to be going where I'm going, and almost relieved that I did get rejected from Cam. Just my two cents there :p:

Indeed. But it's the question of cardinal significance to this thread - if you had chosen Cam over IC, why? Thus as an extension, what could IC do/have done for that decision to have gone the other way?

It's all well and good saying, 'yup, it's better for my course and has better facilities etc etc' but if you'd still pick Cam over IC.. then what's the point of those facilities/lecturers?

Just my 2 cents too :smile:

fais

Reply 32

Big Fat Mel

I applied to Imperial over Oxbridge because I thought it was better for medicine. Nevertheless, many people will still apply to Oxbridge for their relative courses despite the relative course qualities.

-Living in London is expensive and whilst Oxford and Cambridge are not cheap, some people may look more favourably on them.

-London is not a University City per se. Some people may want to live in an environment were students are seen as being the lifeblood of the city rather than a mere part of it. London has massive financial and administrative roles that may make some student feel that there presence in the City is not as important as they'd like it to be. (Despite the fact that London has probably got a much richer cultural/social atmosphere than the other cities).

-There is a weight behind Oxbridge degrees which may entice people. whilst thsi may not be academic and I don't wan't to suggest it is necessarily snobbery, some people may feel better/more important with a degree from Oxbridge than from what might be a better University. Moreover, it may impress some employers.
Of course, such a perspective is flawed with respect to the fact that, for medicine at least, some subjects are not regarded as being better taught at Oxbridge. With regards to medicine an employer may value an ICL degree more highly because of the relative structure of the courses. Furthermore the job opportunities from graduatuing from a London-based Uni are probably better than from oxford as many gaduates may taken on by the Hospitals in their local areas.

Whilst Imperial may be seen as a second choice university this might be for reasons other than the academic and I don't see that it matters greatly. Oxbridge will be regarded as the academic heartland for Britain and although we might want to see ICL raised to a similar level (maybe because we're snobbish too?) I wouldn't want to condemn people who chose Oxbridge over Imperial.

Reply 33

fais

Indeed. But it's the question of cardinal significance to this thread - if you had chosen Cam over IC, why? Thus as an extension, what could IC do/have done for that decision to have gone the other way?

It's all well and good saying, 'yup, it's better for my course and has better facilities etc etc' but if you'd still pick Cam over IC.. then what's the point of those facilities/lecturers?

Just my 2 cents too :smile:

fais

I originally chose Cam because I was blown away by its reputation "oh my god I'm vaguely good enough to apply to Cam, I have to do it" and then if I'd have received the offer it would have been "Oh my god, Cam want me? I have to go!" I'm just a snob in that sense. Besides Cam reminded me very much of my school, maybe that had an effect!

When I went through all the application process I knew a lot less about IC than I did about Cam, the general perception of IC is rather vague to be honest. It was just this sciency college in London, no different from UCL or KCL as far as I could tell! How wrong I was! Now that I have the benefit of hindsight I'm exceedingly glad that I was rejected from Cam, but I couldn't have known what I know now at the time.

My four cents :p:

Reply 34

ashy2005

I originally chose Cam because I was blown away by its reputation "oh my god I'm vaguely good enough to apply to Cam, I have to do it" and then if I'd have received the offer it would have been "Oh my god, Cam want me? I have to go!" I'm just a snob in that sense. Besides Cam reminded me very much of my school, maybe that had an effect!

When I went through all the application process I knew a lot less about IC than I did about Cam, the general perception of IC is rather vague to be honest. It was just this sciency college in London, no different from UCL or KCL as far as I could tell! How wrong I was! Now that I have the benefit of hindsight I'm exceedingly glad that I was rejected from Cam, but I couldn't have known what I know now at the time.

My four cents :p:

Actually, that pretty much summs up my application process too :p:

Having come from an ancient private school I was looking forward to the same wood-panelled, very traditional, steeped in heritage atmosphere that I was used to (grace in Latin, anyone? :p:

) rather than a modern, steel/concrete monstrosity.. and being the only one in my year applying for CompSci (the average each year), there wasn't much info about sciency unis around.. it was just assumed that for any course Oxbridge would be your best bet to be the best for your course..

And to that extent, I'd agree.. I think Oxbridge would have provided me with a better all-round education and I think I'd probably have been more comfortable in the oxbridgey atmosphere than at IC but having been forced to deal with IC made me research into the uni and now, like you ashy, I'm pretty happy to be going where I am...

Another 2p.. (worth more than you silly american money :p:

)

fais

Reply 35