What is the problem with people enjoying pornography and erotic images? Watch

KingBradly
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Many people say that pornography and erotic photos are bad because they 'objectify' women.

Objectify is a word that is little more than essentially meaningless rhetoric. 'Objectify' means to bring someone down to the status of an object. To treat someone with no more respect than an object. It was originally used to describe how people in death camps or slaves were treated by their captors. So to use it describe the treatment of women who have voluntarily chosen to model or star in a porn film is a pretty big stretch.

The basic idea is that pornography or glamour photography objectifies women because men aren't interested in the model's personalities, they're simply interested in seeing their bodies, only viewing them as sexual entertainment. I don't care what the actors in a porn film's views on Confucius are, I just care about them turning me on. But so what? There's loads of people that provide services for me who I'm not interested in the personalities of. I don't care if the postman shags sheep, I just want him to bring my post on time. I don't care what religious beliefs a sprinter has, I just would like to see him run fast. I don't really care if the builder laying my wall have some terrible disease or not, I just want them to build the wall well. That's just the way life is. Most people are 'objectified' in some way or another.

We see so many videos of people falling over or doing silly things, or entertaining us in some way that tells us nothing about them. We don't care who they are, all we care about is the entertainment they give us in the video. And there is nothing wrong with this, it is not harmful, and I don't think many people think it is. But to say viewing people in this way is suddenly a bad thing when sex is involved is so blatantly puritanical, because what has suddenly made it bad is the sex part of it.

And please don't give me that 'but sex isn't comparable to those other things because it's supposed to be an intimate union of souls' rubbish. Believe it or not, in the 21st century sex can just be fun and casual. It doesn't always have to be some kind of deep spiritual experience.

Lastly, if we got rid of pornography or erotic images what would people masturbate over? Their imaginations? Do people really believe that imagination is any better than what you would see in a porno? It is certainly no less 'objectifying'. As young lad, before ever watching porn, what I imagined in my head was very much the same as what I imagine now. And if someone has a dominatrix fetish, and they don't watch porn, they'll just imagine it in their heads. It's not going to change anything.

Sure I think there are certain things about the way porn is marketed that is very problematic. But there is a lot of porn made now which has very ethical intentions. There's even porn made by women, for women.

Lastly, what is so wrong with viewing people sexually? We are sexual creatures, after-all.
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Daftpunker
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(Original post by KingBradly)
Many people say that pornography and erotic photos are bad because they 'objectify' women.

Objectify is a word that is little more than essentially meaningless rhetoric. 'Objectify' means to bring someone down to the status of an object. To treat someone with no more respect than an object. It was originally used to describe how people in death camps or slaves were treated by their captors. So to use it describe the treatment of women who have voluntarily chosen to model or star in a porn film is a pretty big stretch.

The basic idea is that pornography or glamour photography objectifies women because men aren't interested in the model's personalities, they're simply interested in seeing their bodies, only viewing them as sexual entertainment. I don't care what the actors in a porn film's views on Confucius are, I just care about them turning me on. But so what? There's loads of people that provide services for me who I'm not interested in the personalities of. I don't care if the postman shags sheep, I just want him to bring my post on time. I don't care what religious beliefs a sprinter has, I just would like to see him run fast. I don't really care if the builder laying my wall have some terrible disease or not, I just want them to build the wall well. That's just the way life is. Most people are 'objectified' in some way or another.

We see so many videos of people falling over or doing silly things, or entertaining us in some way that tells us nothing about them. We don't care who they are, all we care about is the entertainment they give us in the video. And there is nothing wrong with this, it is not harmful, and I don't think many people think it is. But to say viewing people in this way is suddenly a bad thing when sex is involved is so blatantly puritanical, because what has suddenly made it bad is the sex part of it.

And please don't give me that 'but sex isn't comparable to those other things because it's supposed to be an intimate union of souls' rubbish. Believe it or not, in the 21st century sex can just be fun and casual. It doesn't always have to be some kind of deep spiritual experience.

Lastly, if we got rid of pornography or erotic images what would people masturbate over? Their imaginations? Do people really believe that imagination is any better than what you would see in a porno? If someone has a dominatrix fetish, and they don't watch porn, they'll just imagine it in their heads. It's not going to change anything.

Sure I think there are certain things about the way porn is marketed that is very problematic. But there is a lot of porn made now which has very ethical intentions. There's even porn made by women, for women.

Lastly, what is so wrong with viewing people sexually? We are sexual creatures, after-all.
There is none. Provided you do it in the comfort of your own home and the individuals in the movie give their consent to be in it.

If you want to get it on with a few pounds of latex in your motel you crack on.

Provided you don't hurt/abuse others there is no problem what you do in your life.
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KingBradly
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(Original post by Daftpunker)
There is none. Provided you do it in the comfort of your own home and the individuals in the movie give their consent to be in it.

If you want to get it on with a few pounds of latex in your motel you crack on.

Provided you don't hurt/abuse others there is no problem what you do in your life.
Completely agree. I think if pornography became more acceptable (and therefore less underground) it would actually lead to there being more laws and restrictions based around making sure that porn actors are treated well and safely.
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Daftpunker
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(Original post by KingBradly)
Completely agree. I think if pornography became more acceptable (and therefore less underground) it would actually lead to there being more laws and restrictions based around making sure that porn actors are treated well and safely.
The only risk is (like all things) if something becomes more acceptable - things that most would due to be unacceptable may start to escalate. E.g. many would like to see the death penalty reintroduced to the UK...it would start with the worst crimes...Murder etc...people would become more brutalised and accepting of it...how long before the death penalty is used for GBH/ABH etc.

In the context of porn for me - if we embrace it and encourage the whole of society to accept it...how long before the warped idea of child porn would be pushed to become more accepted?
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cole-slaw
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Who are you arguing with?

"Many people say"

What people? Where?
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Daftpunker
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In the context of porn for me - if we embrace it and encourage the whole of society to accept it...how long before the warped idea of child porn would be pushed to become more accepted?
In the same way in addition if Canabis was legalised and accepted how long before Heroin/Ectasy etc was pushed to become legal as well.
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KingBradly
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(Original post by Daftpunker)
The only risk is (like all things) if something becomes more acceptable - things that most would due to be unacceptable may start to escalate. E.g. many would like to see the death penalty reintroduced to the UK...it would start with the worst crimes...Murder etc...people would become more brutalised and accepting of it...how long before the death penalty is used for GBH/ABH etc.

In the context of porn for me - if we embrace it and encourage the whole of society to accept it...how long before the warped idea of child porn would be pushed to become more accepted?
I don't think it ever would be, because child porn is always slavery. I see it in the same way as the film industry. Back in the day when it was an emerging industry, there were very few health and safety guidelines. This lead to a lot of injuries and deaths. Now health and safety and the welfare and rights of those on set are taken very seriously and overseen very strictly. Even with censorship being much looser and far more disturbing and violent things being seen on screen, the actors still have considerably more safety and rights.

As pornography has become more mainstream, things have already improved among the big studios in California. Actors are checked for STDs on a very regular basis, and they can earn up to £90,000 for a single video.

But it's still not good enough, and it will only get better if it becomes less underground, less shady, and more accepted.
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KingBradly
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(Original post by cole-slaw)
Who are you arguing with?

"Many people say"

What people? Where?
I think you're quite aware of what people. Mumsnet, The Daily Mail, certain groups of feminists, and Guardian writers such as this who say "porn is poisoning our culture".
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cole-slaw
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(Original post by KingBradly)
I think you're quite aware of what people. Mumsnet, The Daily Mail, certain groups of feminists, and Guardian writers such as this who say "porn is poisoning our culture".
So go ***** on their websites instead. You're preaching to the converted here, brah.
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KingBradly
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(Original post by cole-slaw)
So go ***** on their websites instead. You're preaching to the converted here, brah.
There's plenty of people like them on here.
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KingBradly
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Sometimes it seems like if you don't write about Islam on here, no one will bother reading your post.
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white boy
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(Original post by KingBradly)
There's plenty of people like them on here.
as evidenced by this thread which is positively OVERFLOWING with opposition
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Philbert
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(Original post by KingBradly)
I think you're quite aware of what people. Mumsnet, The Daily Mail, certain groups of feminists, and Guardian writers such as this who say "porn is poisoning our culture".
What about that particular article don't you agree with? She makes some good points. Do you disagree that watching too much porn can be detrimental to relationships, to take the example of the original question (before she embarked on the lengthy answer, which really should have been written as a separate article IMO).
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Arkasia
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(Original post by KingBradly)
Sometimes it seems like if you don't write about Islam on here, no one will bother reading your post.
I didn't bother reading your post because it was so long, and I had already seen arguments like it before.

Not sure what you are trying to achieve, people are either going to agree with you, thus not have their minds changed, or will disagree with you, not bother reading this, and thus not have their minds changed.
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BackToTheFuture
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It basically sends out the wrong message that a life of debauchery is OK when instead we should be encouraging hard work and restraint.
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Clip
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(Original post by BackToTheFuture)
It basically sends out the wrong message that a life of debauchery is OK when instead we should be encouraging hard work and restraint.
You're 100% wrong. It looks like Sasha Grey works really, really hard to me.
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KingBradly
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(Original post by BackToTheFuture)
It basically sends out the wrong message that a life of debauchery is OK when instead we should be encouraging hard work and restraint.
Most jobs aren't particularly hard work. And f*** restraint.
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KingBradly
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(Original post by Arkasia)
I didn't bother reading your post because it was so long, and I had already seen arguments like it before.

Not sure what you are trying to achieve, people are either going to agree with you, thus not have their minds changed, or will disagree with you, not bother reading this, and thus not have their minds changed.
I guess people aren't interested in posts if they aren't about Islam on here.
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Viva Emptiness
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I just don't think anyone particularly disagrees here.

Soz that your super-enlightened opinions are actually quite mainstream.
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ChaoticButterfly
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(Original post by Philbert)
What about that particular article don't you agree with? She makes some good points. Do you disagree that watching too much porn can be detrimental to relationships, to take the example of the original question (before she embarked on the lengthy answer, which really should have been written as a separate article IMO).
Playing to much video games could be detrimental to a relationship.

Ban video games is of course the only logical solution.
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