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    Do you think everyone in the world deserves basic rights to certain things eg food, water, freedom ect? If so in the near future what do you think would have to happen to get them? Do you think that they are realistic aims within the next 70 years?
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    that is what UN organisations are trying to archieved but we have seperate countries and its hard when some "leaders" don't want the best for their people. 75 years probably not unless alot will change very very quickly - the situation in africa is dire.
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    (Original post by Fly By)
    that is what UN organisations are trying to archieved but we have seperate countries and its hard when some "leaders" don't want the best for their people. 75 years probably not unless alot will change very very quickly - the situation in africa is dire.
    i agree about the leaders, people who led their countries dont help if they fall into one of two catagories 1) dont give a dame about anyone apart from themselves and their new palace
    2) care totally about their own country and cannot see the difficulties being caused in others or that solutions to those problems would help solve their problems

    on the time front tho, if you consider the advances we have had in technology towards the end of this century and their effect then it remarkable the amount that can change in such a short time period
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    As a moral issue, I'm not sure about the idea of rights.

    As a practical issue, of course I'd be entirely supportive of the aims (though I'd want to go further than that).

    As another poster said, the problem is largely nation states. However, it is ludicrous to condense that down to being the fault of a few third world despots. Western states are also very culpable.

    The world already produces enough food for everyone to eat comfortably. But a significant proportion still go hungry.

    (Original post by Speciez99)
    Do you think everyone in the world deserves basic rights to certain things eg food, water, freedom ect? If so in the near future what do you think would have to happen to get them? Do you think that they are realistic aims within the next 70 years?
    Human rights do not exist.

    The idea that nature gives us certain rights - eg to water, food etc - is absolute nonsense, one of those relics of Christian thinking in a postmodern world.

    Rights only exist within legal systems, not nature.

    Perhaps if the Grim Reaper ever pays me a visit I should tell him that I have a "natural human right" to life?!

    If you start talking about human rights you might as well start talking about pixies and goblins.
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    (Original post by Speciez99)
    i agree about the leaders, people who led their countries dont help if they fall into one of two catagories 1) dont give a dame about anyone apart from themselves and their new palace
    2) care totally about their own country and cannot see the difficulties being caused in others or that solutions to those problems would help solve their problems

    on the time front tho, if you consider the advances we have had in technology towards the end of this century and their effect then it remarkable the amount that can change in such a short time period

    point 1 is countries like north korea, zimbarbwe

    point 2 is all developed countries, but alot comes down to the citizens of those countries - not willing to help other that are lee forntunate in the world. so a slight drop in standards they would just crucify the leaders and start moaning about aid budgets.


    i know technology has improved, but most of the time is down to politics but not because we dont have the resources to help out. for example, north korea (sorry for keep using it) - big porportion of the aid that goes into the country is used to feed the army and at the end aid agencies have to pull out.
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    (Original post by llama boy)
    As a moral issue, I'm not sure about the idea of rights.

    As a practical issue, of course I'd be entirely supportive of the aims (though I'd want to go further than that).

    As another poster said, the problem is largely nation states. However, it is ludicrous to condense that down to being the fault of a few third world despots. Western states are also very culpable.

    The world already produces enough food for everyone to eat comfortably. But a significant proportion still go hungry.
    why arent you sure about rights? i mean if you take the universal declearation of human rights it is a remarkable document and i personally dont see any problems with it morally.
    I only limited the aims to try and get some consencus as i thought that if i put down to many demands everyone would shout at me. And the idea you expressed in your last post is what i was trying to get across in my previous post.
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    (Original post by Sanctus)
    Human rights do not exist.

    The idea that nature gives us certain rights - eg to water, food etc - is absolute nonsense, one of those relics of Christian thinking in a postmodern world.

    Rights only exist within legal systems, not nature.

    Perhaps if the Grim Reaper ever pays me a visit I should tell him that I have a "natural human right" to life?!

    If you start talking about human rights you might as well start talking about pixies and goblins.
    human rights and basic nessecities to stay alive are different things, although both equally important.
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    (Original post by Sanctus)
    Human rights do not exist.

    The idea that nature gives us certain rights - eg to water, food etc - is absolute nonsense, one of those relics of Christian thinking in a postmodern world.

    Rights only exist within legal systems, not nature.

    Perhaps if the Grim Reaper ever pays me a visit I should tell him that I have a "natural human right" to life?!

    If you start talking about human rights you might as well start talking about pixies and goblins.
    i know that nature doesnt give us rights obviously! however i think they should be rights to certain things in the world eg freedom of speech. Or would you not mind being imprisoned because you expressed yourself.
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    (Original post by Fly By)
    human rights and basic nessecities to stay alive are different things, although both equally important.
    I'd say the basic necessities were more important. After all, without air and water you'd be dead so you wouldn't give a damn about your rights.

    (Original post by Fly By)
    human rights and basic nessecities to stay alive are different things, although both equally important.
    Regardless, nature doesn't give us rights to either luxuries or necessities. Law of nature: the weak perish, the strong survive. Nature knows nothing of charity or pity, only the ruthless drive for survival and power.

    The idea of human rights comes from Christianity. According to Christianity man was created in the image of God and so has rights.

    One cannot accept evolution and logically believe in human rights.
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    (Original post by Mysticmin)
    I'd say the basic necessities were more important. After all, without air and water you'd be dead so you wouldn't give a damn about your rights.
    yeah but if you look at the oposite would you want to live a life if it was pure torture?

    (Original post by Speciez99)
    i know that nature doesnt give us rights obviously! however i think they should be rights to certain things in the world eg freedom of speech. Or would you not mind being imprisoned because you expressed yourself.
    I have no problem with legal rights - my only squabble is with those people who think that people naturally HAVE rights. We only have legal, not natural, rights. Chinese people have no right to freedom of speech until they're given it. However, I do believe that they should be given it.
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    (Original post by Speciez99)
    yeah but if you look at the oposite would you want to live a life if it was pure torture?
    It wouldn't be pure torture. At the end of the day the point of every orgamism's existance is to survive.
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    (Original post by Mysticmin)
    I'd say the basic necessities were more important. After all, without air and water you'd be dead so you wouldn't give a damn about your rights.
    i was thinking more about water and food but you could also argue that what good is life if you have no freedom? if you get punished for experssing your views? etc..
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    (Original post by Sanctus)
    Regardless, nature doesn't give us rights to either luxuries or necessities. Law of nature: the weak perish, the strong survive. Nature knows nothing of charity or pity, only the ruthless drive for survival and power.

    The idea of human rights comes from Christianity. According to Christianity man was created in the image of God and so has rights.

    One cannot accept evolution and logically believe in human rights.
    Yes you can and you dont have to believe in God. Firstly that idea is not solely expressed in Christianity i am sure. Secondly i would hope now that we have developed to the state that we are now that we could appreciate that the rule of jungle is not the best way of running our society.
    Santus do you want hospital treatment when you are sick?
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    (Original post by Sanctus)
    I have no problem with legal rights - my only squabble is with those people who think that people naturally HAVE rights. We only have legal, not natural, rights. Chinese people have no right to freedom of speech until they're given it. However, I do believe that they should be given it.
    The fact that all so many countries have signed the declearation of human rights on behalf of their citizeans gives a mandate to the people in china to have rights.

    (Original post by Speciez99)
    Yes you can and you dont have to believe in God. Firstly that idea is not solely expressed in Christianity i am sure. Secondly i would hope now that we have developed to the state that we are now that we could appreciate that the rule of jungle is not the best way of running our society.
    Santus do you want hospital treatment when you are sick?
    The concept of natural human rights is directly from Christianity - the Greeks had no notion of it, nor does the East.

    I agree that we shouldn't follow the law of the jungle. All I am saying is that rights only exist within a legal matrix, not in nature. Therefore there are no such things as "human rights" as the term is commonly understood.

    (Original post by Speciez99)
    The fact that all so many countries have signed the declearation of human rights on behalf of their citizeans gives a mandate to the people in china to have rights.
    Well, I don't see how it logically follows that just because X amount of countries have signed a UN piece of paper that China has a duty to too.

    But I do believe that all people should have a legal right given to them for freedom of speech.

    And remember - legal rights have only come to this country since the year 2002 when the Human Rights Act (1998) came into force - before then we Brits had freedoms, but no legally enforceable rights.
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    (Original post by Sanctus)
    The concept of natural human rights is directly from Christianity - the Greeks had no notion of it, nor does the East.

    I agree that we shouldn't follow the law of the jungle. All I am saying is that rights only exist within a legal matrix, not in nature. Therefore there are no such things as "human rights" as the term is commonly understood.
    whether it was originated from where it doesn't really matter, but in the 21st century we can all agree that we would like to be 'free'?
 
 
 
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