The problem with Higher Education

bikerx23

Listening to a programme on Radio 4 earlier (linky) I heard the quote:

"The worst step that has been taken in recent years concerning higher tier education was the amalgamation of Universities and Polytechnics, which was imporant not because of the supposed quality of education, but because they were offering something different"

by Digby Jones, which I thought was a very estute analysis of the situation, and one which fits my personal opinions well.

How do you equate this statement?

They still do offer something different. The so-called University of Bedfordshire now offers a BA(Hons) in Adventure Recreation. Thankfully Oxford doesn't.

Reply 2

OP

Howard

They still do offer something different. The so-called University of Bedfordshire now offers a BA(Hons) in Adventure Recreation. Thankfully Oxford doesn't.

I think digby was suggesting they were different as a positive connotation :wink:

Reply 3

bikerx23

I think digby was suggesting they were different as a positive connotation :wink:

Positively crap courses perhaps.

Could you even imagine enrolling on a degree in Adventure Recreation? I couldn't keep a striaght face on University Challenge - "Hi, I'm Fred Smith and I'm reading Adventure Recreation at the University of Bedforshire formally known as Luton College of Higher Education" I'm not an academic snob or anything but that's really taking the piss. :rolleyes:

Reply 4

gideon2000uk

9

People need to be informed about the job prospects they will have when they leave university with these degrees. It is robbery to charge people money to earn these useless degrees! ROBBERY!

Reply 5

OP

I am an academic snob, but I agree.

If you want to listen to the radio show you can have a good giggle at the cretinous vitriol of Liverpool John Moores universities student union president - she doesn't have a clue!

But - realistically - the point I'm trying to make is that in their old days when they were branded as Poly's, they offered courses which were clearly different and trained people for vocational roles, such as engineers, technicians.etc. - clearly skills which are lacking today. As I have also said before, my father went to a poly and it has not hampered his career....whereas I think if he had attended one of the current breed of lesser able universities he would not have got as far in life as he had.

One of the other points mentioned was that these former poly's offer, in their majority, poor quality courses, but work on the principle of occupying an academic niche and producing very high quality graduates in those fields - an example of one of those given was a course in video game design where graduates regularly received starting salaries of £35k. I appreciate that is a good thing, but if its only 50 people getting a worthwhile education out of a university of many thousands, or 10's of thousands - thats a ridiculous waste!

Reply 6

one_silly_person

Howard

They still do offer something different. The so-called University of Bedfordshire now offers a BA(Hons) in Adventure Recreation. Thankfully Oxford doesn't.

The ex-Polys are still ex-Polys.
After all, no decent student would go to the Met.

Reply 7

samba

6

Financially speaking a modern apprenticeship is likely a better investment than a degree anyway.

Reply 8

gideon2000uk

People need to be informed about the job prospects they will have when they leave university with these degrees. It is robbery to charge people money to earn these useless degrees! ROBBERY!

I don't think anybody that is so stupid that they don't realize that a degree in Adventure Recreation isn't going to get them very far has any place in a university tbh. The very act of applying for such a course should bar you from further study and the people that dream up these courses should hang their heads in shame.

Reply 9

one_silly_person

The ex-Polys are still ex-Polys.
After all, no decent student would go to the Met.

I'm a brilliant student and yet I went to an ex-poly! :wink:

Ex-polys can serve a useful purpose in offering some bloody good vocational courses (after all, not everybody wants or is able to "read The Classics at Baliol") but unfortunately many of them have sold their soul to the devil and will also dish up anything they can think of to third rate candidates so long as it gets bums on seats and the government funding that goes with it. You want funding? Then you need to expand your courses and enroll more students! It's not difficult to see the root cause of the rot.

It's so sad really because you can work hard for a bloody good 2:1 degree in say civil and structural engineering only to find that the value of your degree is really half what it should be because your "university" also awards 1st class degrees in "Snow Studies" like they were going out of fashion. Your efforts and the quality of your education and course of study have been demeened by association.

Reply 10

samba

Financially speaking a modern apprenticeship is likely a better investment than a degree anyway.

It certainly could be for some. There's no question that many people would do far better becoming a good bricklayer or pipe welder than they would struggling to come out with a 2:2 degree in nonsense.

Reply 11

samba

6

In your experience, would you say that a recent graduate with say a strong 2:1 in history or politics from Sheffield or Durham, has stronger/weaker/or equivalent life prospects [financially] than a qualified electrician or joiner with the same intelligence and drive?

Reply 12

samba

In your experience, would you say that a recent graduate with say a strong 2:1 in history or politics from Sheffield or Durham, has stronger/weaker/or equivalent life prospects [financially] than a qualified electrician or joiner with the same intelligence and drive?

I don't have any experience at making comparisons in the fortunes of Durham history graduates and electricians at all! But anyway, here's what I think -

Durham's a bloody good university so obviously armed with a 2:1 in history from a place like that a lot more doors should open for you, so ordinarily I think in most cases I'd go with the Durham grad.

But it really is up to the individual. There's nothing to stop an electrician with intelligence and drive starting up his own electrical company and doing bloody well. I know some pretty wealthy electricians who have their own companies (in fact I know people that have become very wealthy out of bricklaying, plastering, suspended ceilings, and lots of other trades as well) and conversely I also know lots of brilliant grads from top notch seats of learning that havn't exactly set the world on fire.

So, I can't really answer your question one way or another tbh. It's up to the individual in the end. The Durham grad will clearly have the upper hand in the education department and if he applies himself he'd probably do better but if he can't put it to good use then old sparky with a bit of drive might make a better living!

Reply 13

yawn

17

What do you think of the moves by some UK unis to emulate US ones in using 'podcasts' instead of physical lectures?

A student would never have to get out of bed in the morning. Just tune in to the podcast!

Reply 14

LH

15

Digby Jones is a knob. He does have a point, but it doesn't change the fact that he's a knob.

Reply 15

OP

yawn

What do you think of the moves by some UK unis to emulate US ones in using 'podcasts' instead of physical lectures?

A student would never have to get out of bed in the morning. Just tune in to the podcast!

One of the people on the programme I linked to commented on that - that for a good education you need extensive contact time, and this system is purely institutional laziness - what is the need to produce a new lecture for the next year when you can just re-upload the one from the year before?

Reply 16

Arminius

14

The problem of higher education is that the government has set an arbitary target of 50% of people in higher education. I disagree with it, anyone capable should be allowed to go to uni but i think 50% of the population don't cut it academically. its only been possible to achieve thse numbers by running rubbish courses at some rubbish unis.

I think this country could do alot better if instead of telling children in school "you MUST go to uni, doesn't matter what you study", tell them go to uni and do a proper degree or go and get a vocational qualification in building, electrician etc. Adding people with these skills would be much ebtter for our economy than having 10,000 extra media graduates.

The problem is people are snobbish and think being a plumber/electrician is a bad thing but its not. As howard says these people often do pretty well for themselves.

Reply 17

OP