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#1
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Hi All,

Basically, the title of this thread sums it up! I am looking for reasons/opinions/insight as to why Henry was victorious over Richard III at Bosworth and able to take the English crown.

Here are some of the reasons I have already:

1) Richard's bad reputation - he was considered to be a usurper and was suspected of murdering the two princes.
2) Richard's lack of support amongst the nobility - Although he was supposed to be popular in the North, many powerful northen families failed to support him (e.g. the Stanleys, Earl of Northumberland)
3) R's lack of support in the South of England - he had given southern land to hgis northern supporters, and was Northern by birth. No southern nobles fought for R at Boswort.
4) R's claim to the throne was not accepted - he claimed taht the princes were illegitimate and that he was the rightful heir of Edward IV but mose people did not accept this
5) Henry Tudor had French support - money and men from Charles VIII
6) Henry Tudor had Yorkist support - by promising to marry Elizabeth of York if he became King
7) Richard made errors on the battlefield - leaving his vantage point for one-on-one combat with Henry left him vulnerable
8) Desertion/treachery on the battlefield - Stanley intervened on Henry's side and many soldiers on Richard's side managed to leave the battle before the end because they weren't inspired by Richard's cause.
9) Richard III was killed in the battle - obvious i suppose but if he had merely fled then Henry would have been in a much weaker position when he took the crown.
10) Legacy of the Wars of the Roses - many people were unprepared to commit themselves wholeheartedly to Richard's side, after recent years had proved that monarchs came and went rapidly, and they themselves knew that backing the wrong side could lead to their execution.

So, if anyone could suggest any more reason, add any more depth to the reasons above or, in paticular, offer an opinion on which reasons, if any, were the most important for Henry's victory I would be eternally grateful

Thanks in advance for any help
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liamb
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#2
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(Original post by excellent_em)
Hi All,

Basically, the title of this thread sums it up! I am looking for reasons/opinions/insight as to why Henry was victorious over Richard III at Bosworth and able to take the English crown.

Here are some of the reasons I have already:

1) Richard's bad reputation - he was considered to be a usurper and was suspected of murdering the two princes.
2) Richard's lack of support amongst the nobility - Although he was supposed to be popular in the North, many powerful northen families failed to support him (e.g. the Stanleys, Earl of Northumberland)
3) R's lack of support in the South of England - he had given southern land to hgis northern supporters, and was Northern by birth. No southern nobles fought for R at Boswort.
4) R's claim to the throne was not accepted - he claimed taht the princes were illegitimate and that he was the rightful heir of Edward IV but mose people did not accept this
5) Henry Tudor had French support - money and men from Charles VIII
6) Henry Tudor had Yorkist support - by promising to marry Elizabeth of York if he became King
7) Richard made errors on the battlefield - leaving his vantage point for one-on-one combat with Henry left him vulnerable
8) Desertion/treachery on the battlefield - Stanley intervened on Henry's side and many soldiers on Richard's side managed to leave the battle before the end because they weren't inspired by Richard's cause.
9) Richard III was killed in the battle - obvious i suppose but if he had merely fled then Henry would have been in a much weaker position when he took the crown.
10) Legacy of the Wars of the Roses - many people were unprepared to commit themselves wholeheartedly to Richard's side, after recent years had proved that monarchs came and went rapidly, and they themselves knew that backing the wrong side could lead to their execution.

So, if anyone could suggest any more reason, add any more depth to the reasons above or, in paticular, offer an opinion on which reasons, if any, were the most important for Henry's victory I would be eternally grateful

Thanks in advance for any help
(+ reps will be winging their way to any (helpful) replies)
Richard was doing a fairly good job up to Bosworth. Whether or not he killed the princes (there's good evidence on both sides) he certainly had a measure of control - and unified England was a worry to France.
Henry won - I believe - because:
He landed in Wales and so was able to recruit in an area that favoured him.
He was a good politican - and exploited Richard's unpopular choices. (All kings made them.)
Compared to Edward IV - Richard didn't look so good.
Richard should have taken more care over his personal safety. Far too often in the War of the Roses, a battle ended with the shout of "spare the commons, kill the nobles." Richard should have realised he was the target, not his army.
The Stanleys were sneaky - and might well have backed Richard had the battle seemed to be going his way.
The nobility was weak. Many heads of families had fallen in wars, so less committed, more cautious men prevailed. The Stanleys were an extreme example, but most families now were concerned not to get caught on the wrong side. Hence they didn't march with either side.
Richard was unlucky. So often in history, that's the way it goes - one bad day and all is lost.
Edward IV would have beaten Henry Tudor had the attempt been made earlier.
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liamb
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Anything else I can do, just ask. BTW I found Alison Weir's book on the War of the Roses very clear. A.L.Rowse, despite being Cornish, wasn't nearly as good!
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sol89
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#4
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Argh I feel really angry with myself not being able to help you cos I studied Henry VII for my first AS History unit. I got an A as well, so I'm slightly frustrated lol.
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liamb
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#5
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Hey Sol89 - like the Devon flag, about time youguys got one!
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Wez
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#6
Report 13 years ago
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I think when it comes to battles, luck is a major factor, although examiners don't like that one.:p:

The battle, imo, could have gone either way. Before the battle it would have been hard to predict a winner. After the battle we can point at all the reasons Richard was unpopular and then link them to his defeat. Had Richard won, we would be saying how he simply had a larger army (I think?) and crushed that of Henry Tudor.

Your list of reasons is good though. I wouldn't add anything to it - you probably don't even want that many reasons. 1,2,3,4, for example, are all related and could be moulded into a 'generally unpopular' option which would then go on to describe which sections of society he was unpopular under and why.

Good work.
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mrcollet
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#7
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Basically this is my essay plan:

Why did Henry Tudor win the Battle of Bosworth in 1485?-Essay Plan
Introduction
TBC
Para 1 Henry’s French Support and His Landing Position

A major factor of the win was the French support Henry was given and the clever choice of landing. French gave him 2000 soldiers. He Landed in ****ord haven - Ria. Very good landing spot because it was wide and deep. Woodland, Pasture for troops. Support in Pembrokeshire, 3000 gathered. He Persuaded many very skilled long bowmen to join his army. Bad because long way to march to battle but this is a feeble argument against the pros.

Para 2 The Stanley’s

The Stanley’s were the main factor in Henry winning. Richard ordered Lord Thomas Stanley and Sir William Stanley, two of the most powerful men in England, to bring their 6,000 soldiers to fight for the king. Richard had been told that Lord Stanley had promised to help Henry Tudor. In order to make him change his mind, Richard kidnapped Lord Stanley’s eldest son. Without the support of the Stanley’s Richard looked certain to be defeated. Richard gave orders for Lord Stanley's son to be brought to the top of the hill. The king then sent a message to Lord Stanley threatening to execute his son unless he sent his troops to join the king on Ambien Hill. Lord Stanley's reply was short: "Sire, I have other sons." Henry now had Stanley’s support. If it wasn’t for Stanley’s, he wouldn’t have won.

Para 3 Richard bad mistake and Northumberland lack of support.

Another Main factor is Richard’s mistakes and unpopularity. Northumberland refuses to help him. Richards lack of support in the south, due to him giving land to northern supporters. NO southerners fighting for Richard. Richards claim to throne not accepted. Princes in the tower Edward IV children..... Usurp. He charged down the hill in attempt to kill Henry. Failed. Main reason for failure.

Conclusion

Main factor was the Stanley’s. Also it was Henry’s cleverness landing in a good place where there was resources and support. Also due to Richards bad support and foolhardy decisions.

Hope this helps:o:o:o:o:mad::mad::cool:
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The Bright Beast
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#8
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The straight answer is because of the actions of the Stanley family, who cast their lot with Henry as R charged.
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xpooffer
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#9
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Ive got a history exam on it tomorrow! AAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHH !!!!!!!!!:eek:
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Saaim123
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#10
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You know our history teacher used that exact sheet to help us with our essay
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mansourkuany
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Richard way to the throne was messy and Henry did well blaming them, summoning troops from France and Wales. Richard was too rash in the Battle of Borsworth, leading 'a charge aimed at his enemy out of anger', as historian from 1996 wrote.
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gjd800
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#12
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Black magick
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abiii_jxx
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#13
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Basically, Richard was unpopular, he lacked noble support, he had a large powerbase. Richard had not had chance to fully assert his authority as king before this and suffered many setback sin his short reign. his rash decisions at the battle sealed his fate, had he survived he would have posed a much greater threat to Henry.
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the bear
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#14
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big H had banging batel skilz. ricky 3 sucked at fiting.
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