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Treatment of Prisoners in Iraq! watch

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    (Original post by Howard)
    Whatever.
    can't argue with that
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    (Original post by Howard)
    Well, on CNN last night General so-and-so (I don't remember his name) said that there was going to be a court marshal. Unless he's changed his mind then I imagine that's still the case.
    According to the BBC the torturers have been suspended pending investigation.

    But still the White House have not made any statement.
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    (Original post by Howard)
    They are insurgents. No trial required.
    Shouldn't there be some sort of system to make sure they are insurgents, maybe?
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    (Original post by Lawzzzzzz)
    Thats similar to saying that since a priest in the UK was recently arrested for murder, that the church does nothing to discourage it.
    For goodness sake, stop trying to go off the subject.
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    (Original post by vienna95)
    and then run home to your family and pretend to be a nice guy really.
    Which is what these US soldiers will do!
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    (Original post by yawn1)
    For goodness sake, stop trying to go off the subject.

    How on earth is that going of the subject - YOU said that because it has happened that is PROOF that it is not actively discouraged in the US military...

    My point is that that is a complete non sequitur. Just because it happens does NOT reflect the internalised views of the military
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    (Original post by Pencil Queen)
    I think he's referring to you not condemning it....
    Oh yes, so he is. Well, Bicgnee is going to be dissapointed in me (again) as I am not going to condemn them. I don't think it's my place, sitting from the comfort of my cosy office, to condemn the actions of front line soldiers.

    I'll go this far and say "Yes, it was wrong and yes, the soldiers responsible should be disciplined" I'll go no further than that.
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    (Original post by jamlan)
    Shouldn't there be some sort of system to make sure they are insurgents, maybe?
    They were probably arrested in the posession of explosives. I'm sure they weren't arbitrarily picked off the streets. How much proof do we need?
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    (Original post by Howard)
    Oh yes, so he is. Well, Bicgnee is going to be dissapointed in me (again) as I am not going to condemn them. I don't think it's my place, sitting from the comfort of my cosy office, to condemn the actions of front line soldiers.

    I'll go this far and say "Yes, it was wrong and yes, the soldiers responsible should be disciplined" I'll go no further than that.

    Would you do the same thing if the situation was reversed and it was the US soldiers who had been tied up, naked and hooded, ridiculed and God knows what else?

    ...honestly now Howard.
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    (Original post by Howard)
    They were probably arrested in the posession of explosives. I'm sure they weren't arbitrarily picked off the streets. How much proof do we need?

    Sorry there is a lot of ground between having explosives, and just picked off the streets. It may well be that the US think they are fighters but are in fact mistaken. Also - Probably doesnt cut it.

    How though do you say you cant condem the Soldiers from the confort of your armchair, but yet feel confident to make judgements of fact about what has happened?
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    Right - now we've all got that off our chests for the time being....how do you all see the situation from now on......do you think it will lead to an escalation of the war or will it make Dubya withdraw more quickly than he had intended, or will he have to resign or be replaced?

    The buck stops at the top, remember
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    (Original post by Howard)
    They were probably arrested in the posession of explosives. I'm sure they weren't arbitrarily picked off the streets. How much proof do we need?
    I don't know what makes you think "they were probably arrested in the possession of explosives", but what happens is if someone is suspected of doing something illegal they get arrested. Then it has to be proved. Lots of people get arrested, guilty and innocent, the proof aspect of it (usual not as simple as having explosive) is the important part that seperates the innocent from the guilty.
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    (Original post by yawn1)
    Right - now we've all got that off our chests for the time being....how do you all see the situation from now on......do you think it will lead to an escalation of the war or will it make Dubya withdraw more quickly than he had intended, or will he have to resign or be replaced?

    The buck stops at the top, remember
    Unfortunately the whole incident will fade from view in the midst of more important matters
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    (Original post by yawn1)
    I am ashamed that this country is in coalition with the likes of the US.

    For the soldiers to act in this inhuman manner signifies that these sorts of things are not actively discouraged by the powers-that-be.
    oh what rubbish.
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    (Original post by yawn1)
    According to the BBC the torturers have been suspended pending investigation.

    But still the White House have not made any statement.
    whats there to say? it would be highly stupid to start commenting on actions taken by soldiers in a combat period. especially when your responding to a media circus.
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    (Original post by Lawzzzzzz)

    How though do you say you cant condem the Soldiers from the confort of your armchair, but yet feel confident to make judgements of fact about what has happened?
    I'm no more confident than you. In fact I'm rather less confident. You are sure of the facts xyz and wild horses won't drive those "facts" from your mind. I'm not quite so sure of all the facts which is why I'm not as quick to condemn as you.

    I also think that it's very dangerous to see these types of thing as a black and white issue in a sterile environment.

    Bare faced torture? Wrong! Sure, I'd go along with that!

    What about torture (when you've just seen your comrades body mutilated)? It's still wrong! But maybe a bit more understandable. Maybe not quite so easy to condemn. Does human nature play a part here? Remember, we are talking about soldiers, not schoolteachers.
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    (Original post by yawn1)
    Right - now we've all got that off our chests for the time being....how do you all see the situation from now on......do you think it will lead to an escalation of the war or will it make Dubya withdraw more quickly than he had intended, or will he have to resign or be replaced?

    The buck stops at the top, remember
    none of the above.
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    (Original post by Howard)
    I'm no more confident than you. In fact I'm rather less confident. You are sure of the facts xyz and wild horses won't drive those "facts" from your mind. I'm not quite so sure of all the facts which is why I'm not as quick to condemn as you.

    I also think that it's very dangerous to see these types of thing as a black and white issue in a sterile environment.

    Bare faced torture? Wrong! Sure, I'd go along with that!

    What about torture (when you've just seen your comrades body mutilated)? It's still wrong! But maybe a bit more understandable. Maybe not quite so easy to condemn. Does human nature play a part here? Remember, we are talking about soldiers, not schoolteachers.

    I am not confident of anything - and as such I do not condemn - but if it IS true - I would.

    Also to point to the treatment of other US soldiers is a mistake - Whose to say these people had anything to do with that? Why should they bear the brunt of the soldier's anger? The truth is we are back to you assuming that they had a part or are "insurgents"
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    (Original post by vienna95)
    none of the above.
    i agree. The buck can be made to stop a lot lower down
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    (Original post by Lawzzzzzz)

    Also to point to the treatment of other US soldiers is a mistake - Whose to say these people had anything to do with that? Why should they bear the brunt of the soldier's anger? The truth is we are back to you assuming that they had a part or are "insurgents"
    So, why is the treatment of other US soldiers "a mistake" but US treatment of Iraqi prisoners an act of barbarity.

    I didn't see a thread on UKL condemning the mutilation of US soldiers did you?
 
 
 
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