Conservatives are the only economically viable party in the UK Watch

User1255194
Badges: 2
Rep:
?
#1
Report Thread starter 4 years ago
#1
Discuss.


Posted from TSR Mobile
1
reply
The Dictator
Badges: 2
Rep:
?
#2
Report 4 years ago
#2
True that.
2
reply
Chlorophile
  • Study Helper
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#3
Report 4 years ago
#3
Bearing in mind that economics in its current form is going to bring about its own self-destruction in the near to long term future, I don't agree.
0
reply
User1255194
Badges: 2
Rep:
?
#4
Report Thread starter 4 years ago
#4
(Original post by Chlorophile)
Bearing in mind that economics in its current form is going to bring about its own self-destruction in the near to long term future, I don't agree.
Explain explicitly how and why


Posted from TSR Mobile
0
reply
Chlorophile
  • Study Helper
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#5
Report 4 years ago
#5
(Original post by EHZ17)
Explain explicitly how and why


Posted from TSR Mobile
It's completely and utterly unsustainable. Economics in its current form is physically unable to make short term sacrifices for long term gain. This has worked fine whilst humanity had low enough resource requirements to make the earth's limitations effectively irrelevant, but we've now come to a point where three out of nine so-called 'planetary boundaries' have been passed because of our recklessness. Economics in its current form is unsustainable because it only works on a planet where there are no natural resource limitations. If we continue as we are at the moment, a crisis point will eventually be reached. I don't know what that crisis will be, but I have little doubt that it will occur. People talk about "sustainability" without really knowing what it means. If something's unsustainable, that means it can not be sustained. It is utterly irrelevant if 'unsustainability' is the only way to create profit or keep people wealthy, because the environment does not care. As long as we're dependent on the planet - which we will be for the foreseeable future - we must stay within its constraints. Economics, or probably more specifically, capitalism and consumerism, are unable to do that.
1
reply
User1255194
Badges: 2
Rep:
?
#6
Report Thread starter 4 years ago
#6
(Original post by Chlorophile)
It's completely and utterly unsustainable. Economics in its current form is physically unable to make short term sacrifices for long term gain. This has worked fine whilst humanity had low enough resource requirements to make the earth's limitations effectively irrelevant, but we've now come to a point where three out of nine so-called 'planetary boundaries' have been passed because of our recklessness. Economics in its current form is unsustainable because it only works on a planet where there are no natural resource limitations. If we continue as we are at the moment, a crisis point will eventually be reached. I don't know what that crisis will be, but I have little doubt that it will occur. People talk about "sustainability" without really knowing what it means. If something's unsustainable, that means it can not be sustained. It is utterly irrelevant if 'unsustainability' is the only way to create profit or keep people wealthy, because the environment does not care. As long as we're dependent on the planet - which we will be for the foreseeable future - we must stay within its constraints. Economics, or probably more specifically, capitalism and consumerism, are unable to do that.
Thats a fair point and I think it is largely spoken in academic debate not only in economics but also in the context of world health and welfare. There are so many warnings for the overpopulation of the earth and the drain of resources and global warming will never stop. The people of today do not care about the situations faced by the human race in hundreds of years team. If population grows at its current rate, big problems will occur forcing everyone to wake up. You're right, it is total unsustainable. What do you think needs to happen?


Posted from TSR Mobile
0
reply
Chlorophile
  • Study Helper
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#7
Report 4 years ago
#7
(Original post by EHZ17)
Thats a fair point and I think it is largely spoken in academic debate not only in economics but also in the context of world health and welfare. There are so many warnings for the overpopulation of the earth and the drain of resources and global warming will never stop. The people of today do not care about the situations faced by the human race in hundreds of years team. If population grows at its current rate, big problems will occur forcing everyone to wake up. You're right, it is total unsustainable. What do you think needs to happen?
Posted from TSR Mobile
To be perfectly honest, I don't think there's anything that can be done. 'The institution' is so deeply entrenched in modern society, the kind of change required would be well beyond what anyone would want. People would so much rather live with the comfortable status quo whilst living in denial or ignorance of the possible future consequences. Nothing short of a revolution is going to prevent a future environmental catastrophe, and I doubt very much that a revolution of that kind is going to happen.

We're not facing an existential crisis, I don't want to over-dramatise things. But if we continue to refuse to change, which is what I predict is going to happen, nature will eventually make that decision for us. My hope is that this crisis encourages a transition into a sustainable and science-based global community, a society that does the miracle of sentience justice.
1
reply
User1255194
Badges: 2
Rep:
?
#8
Report Thread starter 4 years ago
#8
(Original post by Chlorophile)
To be perfectly honest, I don't think there's anything that can be done. 'The institution' is so deeply entrenched in modern society, the kind of change required would be well beyond what anyone would want. People would so much rather live with the comfortable status quo whilst living in denial or ignorance of the possible future consequences. Nothing short of a revolution is going to prevent a future environmental catastrophe, and I doubt very much that a revolution of that kind is going to happen.

We're not facing an existential crisis, I don't want to over-dramatise things. But if we continue to refuse to change, which is what I predict is going to happen, nature will eventually make that decision for us. My hope is that this crisis encourages a transition into a sustainable and science-based global community, a society that does the miracle of sentience justice.
I would take the route of hayek and say that to influence opinion you need to captivate the intellectuals. I think things like this only change with a unanimous mind set. It is an almost game theory related paradox, analogous to recycling. You think that one bottle recycled doesn't make a difference and therefore you don't recycle. The majority of kids today don't care and it's this mentality they tale through life. I was the same. Now my household recycles everything and I think a fair amount in the UK do but even if the whole of the UK did, global warming would not just instantly seize. It is the same principal in many ways. Unfortunately it is not something you or I care about enough to really worry about. It will fall on a generation of the human race that has known its potential for many years and they will have to react instead of prevent, one is a lot easier than the other.


Posted from TSR Mobile
1
reply
Chlorophile
  • Study Helper
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#9
Report 4 years ago
#9
(Original post by EHZ17)
I would take the route of hayek and say that to influence opinion you need to captivate the intellectuals. I think things like this only change with a unanimous mind set. It is an almost game theory related paradox, analogous to recycling. You think that one bottle recycled doesn't make a difference and therefore you don't recycle. The majority of kids today don't care and it's this mentality they tale through life. I was the same. Now my household recycles everything and I think a fair amount in the UK do but even if the whole of the UK did, global warming would not just instantly seize. It is the same principal in many ways. Unfortunately it is not something you or I care about enough to really worry about. It will fall on a generation of the human race that has known its potential for many years and they will have to react instead of prevent, one is a lot easier than the other.
Posted from TSR Mobile
The first thing to understand is that dangerous climate change is inevitable. We've already passed the tipping point. The question now is how severe it's going to be. Obviously that doesn't mean we should stop trying, but people need to stop talking in terms of "stopping global warming" and start talking in terms of "minimising the damage of global warming".

I don't think it's a matter of education. The message is being very clearly communicated. I think it's a very simple matter of psychology. At the moment, most of the people who really 'get' the urgency of acting for the environment fall into one of two categories. The first is very learned people, including scientists, who have spent a lot of time understanding the issue. The second is people whose political views make them more inclined to accept the reality of climate change. For everyone else, they're simply incapable of taking these consequences on-board. Most people are simply incapable of forcing themselves to accept major changes in their way of life because of an invisible threat. You can see that visibly at the moment. Terrorists are having a relatively small impact on society in comparison to other things, but because explosions are scary and the 'enemy' is tangible, people get totally freaked out. Terrorism has been used by governments to impose drastic changes in public policy, I need not explain how. Ebola is another great example. Despite the fact that 'only' a few thousand people have been killed, the entire planet goes into panic mode. Then we've got the really serious things which have a much greater catastrophic potential like antibiotic resistance, climate change, ocean acidification, a mass extinction etc, and the reaction is rubbish to say the least. It's human nature to ignore these things which is why I'm increasingly thinking that the attempts to stop them are hopeless. I hate being defeatist like this, but that's what the facts are telling me.
1
reply
User1255194
Badges: 2
Rep:
?
#10
Report Thread starter 4 years ago
#10
(Original post by Chlorophile)
The first thing to understand is that dangerous climate change is inevitable. We've already passed the tipping point. The question now is how severe it's going to be. Obviously that doesn't mean we should stop trying, but people need to stop talking in terms of "stopping global warming" and start talking in terms of "minimising the damage of global warming".

I don't think it's a matter of education. The message is being very clearly communicated. I think it's a very simple matter of psychology. At the moment, most of the people who really 'get' the urgency of acting for the environment fall into one of two categories. The first is very learned people, including scientists, who have spent a lot of time understanding the issue. The second is people whose political views make them more inclined to accept the reality of climate change. For everyone else, they're simply incapable of taking these consequences on-board. Most people are simply incapable of forcing themselves to accept major changes in their way of life because of an invisible threat. You can see that visibly at the moment. Terrorists are having a relatively small impact on society in comparison to other things, but because explosions are scary and the 'enemy' is tangible, people get totally freaked out. Terrorism has been used by governments to impose drastic changes in public policy, I need not explain how. Ebola is another great example. Despite the fact that 'only' a few thousand people have been killed, the entire planet goes into panic mode. Then we've got the really serious things which have a much greater catastrophic potential like antibiotic resistance, climate change, ocean acidification, a mass extinction etc, and the reaction is rubbish to say the least. It's human nature to ignore these things which is why I'm increasingly thinking that the attempts to stop them are hopeless. I hate being defeatist like this, but that's what the facts are telling me.
Totally agree to be honest. Again I doubt any crisis now financially or humanitarian will cause a dramatic effect. The economic system makes use of an every changing world and tries to satisfy unlimited wants with limited resources. For the time being we will continue to do that and continue to reduce negative externalities but the mindset of the world must change - something I believe can never happen, at least certainly in the short term. Overpopulation is the thing I think will be a serious problem in the next 200-500 years of the human race. Then again, who really knows. Those exponential graphs of population growth do look scary. What is that saying? Anyone who believes in indefinite growth is either mad or an economist. Population growth is something that will tear apart the globe in centuries to come. Then if that subsides, global warming will become increasingly more evident.

From a very young age I have always wanted to be up to date on current affairs and I despise those who do not care about anything unless it enters their own little bubble. The type that do not know the countries that have serious Ebola threats as we speak but could tell you the entire cast of big brother or x-factor ect.. I guess it is the luxury of living in a rich nation. So many take it for granted, so many are protected by the bliss of ignorance :/
0
reply
Chlorophile
  • Study Helper
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#11
Report 4 years ago
#11
(Original post by EHZ17)
Totally agree to be honest. Again I doubt any crisis now financially or humanitarian will cause a dramatic effect. The economic system makes use of an every changing world and tries to satisfy unlimited wants with limited resources. For the time being we will continue to do that and continue to reduce negative externalities but the mindset of the world must change - something I believe can never happen, at least certainly in the short term. Overpopulation is the thing I think will be a serious problem in the next 200-500 years of the human race. Then again, who really knows. Those exponential graphs of population growth do look scary. What is that saying? Anyone who believes in indefinite growth is either mad or an economist. Population growth is something that will tear apart the globe in centuries to come. Then if that subsides, global warming will become increasingly more evident.

From a very young age I have always wanted to be up to date on current affairs and I despise those who do not care about anything unless it enters their own little bubble. The type that do not know the countries that have serious Ebola threats as we speak but could tell you the entire cast of big brother or x-factor ect.. I guess it is the luxury of living in a rich nation. So many take it for granted, so many are protected by the bliss of ignorance :/
If you think population growth is the world's biggest problem, I suggest you research Hans Rosling and look at some of his TED Talks. Population growth is one of the biggest problems that doesn't actually exist. Population growth is, at least at a simple level, easy to understand which is why so many people are worried about it. In actual fact, it's really not. The population isn't growing exponentially, it's actually plateauing out. It's pretty much inevitable that the population will grow to 10-11 billion but it's extremely unlikely to go significantly beyond that - Rosling explains why in a very good and clear fashion. I completely agree that the population is too high and long term, I think we should be looking at reducing the population to under 5 billion - which I think could happen in the very long term. However, population growth is very much out of control. Because of population dynamics (again, Rosling explains this), there's pretty much nothing we can do to stop the population from rising above 10 billion, but it's almost certainly going to plateau out just above that figure. Population is too high but that's something we've got no option but to work around.
0
reply
User1255194
Badges: 2
Rep:
?
#12
Report Thread starter 4 years ago
#12
(Original post by Chlorophile)
If you think population growth is the world's biggest problem, I suggest you research Hans Rosling and look at some of his TED Talks. Population growth is one of the biggest problems that doesn't actually exist. Population growth is, at least at a simple level, easy to understand which is why so many people are worried about it. In actual fact, it's really not. The population isn't growing exponentially, it's actually plateauing out. It's pretty much inevitable that the population will grow to 10-11 billion but it's extremely unlikely to go significantly beyond that - Rosling explains why in a very good and clear fashion. I completely agree that the population is too high and long term, I think we should be looking at reducing the population to under 5 billion - which I think could happen in the very long term. However, population growth is very much out of control. Because of population dynamics (again, Rosling explains this), there's pretty much nothing we can do to stop the population from rising above 10 billion, but it's almost certainly going to plateau out just above that figure. Population is too high but that's something we've got no option but to work around.
Great, I'll have a look at that. My knowledge of overpopulation has come from the book 10 billion and also dan browns inferno surprisingly. No wonder my idea is slightly flawed!


Posted from TSR Mobile
0
reply
slade p
Badges: 4
Rep:
?
#13
Report 4 years ago
#13
yes conservative is the best choice.
0
reply
MatureStudent36
Badges: 3
Rep:
?
#14
Report 4 years ago
#14
(Original post by Chlorophile)
Bearing in mind that economics in its current form is going to bring about its own self-destruction in the near to long term future, I don't agree.
They been predicting that for centuries and we're still here going strong.
0
reply
Chlorophile
  • Study Helper
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#15
Report 4 years ago
#15
(Original post by MatureStudent36)
They been predicting that for centuries and we're still here going strong.
The fact that someone made a prediction centuries ago and it didn't happen doesn't mean that a prediction made now won't happen. We have never been in a better position to predict than now. You make decisions based on the best current available evidence, not through the denial of the best evidence because better evidence that doesn't yet exist could in theory exist in the future.
0
reply
Quady
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#16
Report 4 years ago
#16
(Original post by Chlorophile)
Bearing in mind that economics in its current form is going to bring about its own self-destruction in the near to long term future, I don't agree.
The 'near to long term' is the best bet hedging I've ever seen
0
reply
Chlorophile
  • Study Helper
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#17
Report 4 years ago
#17
(Original post by Quady)
The 'near to long term' is the best bet hedging I've ever seen
It is pretty extreme hedging, I will concede to that! But I think I'm already making a contentious statement by predicting a future major catastrophe - you'd have to be an idiot to pinpoint a date for that.
0
reply
username570910
Badges: 2
Rep:
?
#18
Report 4 years ago
#18
(Original post by Chlorophile)
Bearing in mind that economics in its current form is going to bring about its own self-destruction in the near to long term future, I don't agree.
Is that you, Russell Brand?
0
reply
Chlorophile
  • Study Helper
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#19
Report 4 years ago
#19
(Original post by thenumber2goose)
Is that you, Russell Brand?
Haha, I was waiting for someone to mention that. Brand's heart is definitely in the right place and I definitely respect him for that and I'm grateful that a public figure is saying what he's saying. I just wish there was a bit more research and sense behind what he says.
0
reply
Quady
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#20
Report 4 years ago
#20
(Original post by The Dictator)
True that.
So you defo won't be voting UKIPs then?
0
reply
X

Quick Reply

Attached files
Write a reply...
Reply
new posts
Latest
My Feed

See more of what you like on
The Student Room

You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

Personalise

Where do you need more help?

Which Uni should I go to? (112)
17.53%
How successful will I become if I take my planned subjects? (68)
10.64%
How happy will I be if I take this career? (110)
17.21%
How do I achieve my dream Uni placement? (94)
14.71%
What should I study to achieve my dream career? (63)
9.86%
How can I be the best version of myself? (192)
30.05%

Watched Threads

View All
Latest
My Feed

See more of what you like on
The Student Room

You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

Personalise