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Police to check anti-terror operations with Muslims

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-2372471,00.html

"POLICE have agreed to consult a panel of Muslim leaders before mounting counter-terrorist raids or arrests. Members of the panel will offer their assessment of whether information police have on a suspect is too flimsy and will also consider the consequences on community relations of a raid."

We might as well give in now, this is the latest step on the path to sheer insanity. A day after it was revealed 14% of British Muslims would not go to police with information about a terror attack (210,000 people), the police have revealed that BEFORE conducting anti-terrorist operations they will not only inform, but consult "Muslim leaders" about whether it should go ahead. These people will be able to see classified information and "assess" its value.

Now, excuse me, but I was under the impression that the police in this country have a duty to the general public and a responsibility to protect the general public. But now it appears that when it comes to counter-terrorism - something which affects all of us - Muslim leaders, representing 2.5% of the population are going to get a say in whether the police can do their jobs or not, whilst the rest of us apparently need to keep out of it. Furthermore, what special skills do these Muslims have? Who are they to contradict the police or intelligence services and tell them they shouldn't carry out an operation?

This is simply another step too far, whilst many Muslims try to dissociate Islamic terror from themselves and tell us that the terrorists "aren't true Muslims", whilst the so-called "moderates" try and use terrorism to further their own wishes and air their own grievances, here the police of this country go, asking the Islamic community permission to counter the threat coming from that same community and gaining more support from that community than any other. There is no other religious group in the country of which 14%, when gaining information on a terror plot, wouldn't go to the police, it's only one religious community. And these are the people we consult on Islamic terror?

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Reply 1

Huw Davies

Does seem rather scary - important powers should not be in the hands of unelected "community representatives". Are they merely supposed to inform the decision, or do they have a power of veto? It's hard to trust their impartiality - after all, it's a community which has developed a big siege mentality (understandable to a limited extent), and a lot of these are going to seem like "nice boys" to those in their communities.

Reply 2

FreedomtoFascism

JonathanH

This is simply another step too far

Hahaha, that says it all about you really doesn't it.

Reply 3

Longshoredrift80

Up to the usual par of valuable contribution, I see.

Reply 4

FreedomtoFascism

Ok...

Do you really think its any suprise Muslims are going to feel this way, considering all the UK TERROR raids that have been conducted, and resulted in nothing at all..

One must wonder how they were allowd to conduct raids with "bad intelligence". I find it hard, if almsot impossible to believe, that MI5 would get bad info. That only leaves the one explanation, that they were conducted for "another purpose".

As one person said on a live BBC interview in the street, during the Israel-Lebanon conflict, "this raid is only serving to detract away from the conflict".

Just like with the liquid explosives nonsense, its all fear mongering for the "war on terror".

But its no suprise that we will start seeing real terrorists in our countries soon, because we've pushed them into a corner, and they are only human.

Reply 5

Loke

This is simply another step too far, whilst many Muslims try to dissociate Islamic terror from themselves and tell us that the terrorists "aren't true Muslims", whilst the so-called "moderates" try and use terrorism to further their own wishes and air their own grievances,

A Jewish person, critisizing Islam? Well I never...

Are they also evil parasites, bleeding England dry, and conspiring to destroy all that the British nation holds dear? I've heard this music before...

:fuhrer:

Reply 6

Invocation

Loke

Not again...

Reply 7

SolInvictus

As a Hindu, I would like the British government to check out any meat slaughters with me and the Hindu Council (if one exists).

Reply 8

tehjonny

FreedomtoFascism

Hahaha, that says it all about you really doesn't it.

Ironic that.

Reply 9

tehjonny

FreedomtoFascism

I despise your ilk. You actually think that the police should have to consult a panel of 'community representatives' before taking action upon intelligence they believe to be genuine? Does any other group get consulted before the police deploys its powers? Does any other group have to be so pandered too in order to satisfy its foundationless victim mentality? You miss a key point...we are the victims.

We need to take action to arrest and imprison the likes of Abu Izzadeen and take action to combat extremism in the Muslim community, not blame ourselves and pander to the every whim of Islam. As far as I can see, Muslims claim we need to understand them, to have tolerance. Meanwhile an extremist minority of Muslims kill a nun over an uttered sentence (intolerance anyone?), and wish to wipe our civilisation off the face of the Earth. Moderate Muslims claim not to support this...but still believe the entire populace of this planet should be subject to Sharia law and Islamic government, regardless of their own desires. Moderate Muslims claim not to support the likes of Izzadeen...but still fail to condemn his own brand of extreme intolerance and claim that we simply 'don't understand'. Moderate Muslims claim we are the ones who do not understand, but I see no understanding coming from them.

You will claim there is no war, no threat, continually blaim your own country in a pathetic show of schadenfreude, taking pleasure in the suffering of your own and continually bemoaning the suffering of others.

Reply 10

FreedomtoFascism

Im sorry, what threat?

In this country its based upon 7/7, and in America 9/11...both events have spawned conspiracy theories, hmm, i wonder why...

Not blaim ourselves? So what should we do about Iraq? Last time i checked we were led into war on a pack of lies, we have every reason to blaim ourselves.

Can you not see we've created the problem ourselves (9/11, 7/7), and then started pointing fingers at other people?..

We are the victims? Not yet, but we will be soon..

Reply 11

Noobish

Worst Thread Ever

But seriously i dont see a point (IF ANY) in this thread!! What does the OP expect us to debate?

Reply 12

samba

Do you donate cash to the terrorists then?

This is ridiculous and spineless. If labour hadnt assfcked tony blair the government would prevent it....the sooner I move to spain/aussie/usa the better.

Reply 13

samba

Noobish

Worst Thread Ever

But seriously i dont see a point (IF ANY) in this thread!! What does the OP expect us to debate?

Engage brain please, and shift out of neutral.

Reply 14

Huw Davies

Can you not see we've created the problem ourselves (9/11, 7/7), and then started pointing fingers at other people?..

Our foreign policy has made things easier to foment terrorism - let's not pretend that there were no extremist clerics preaching the evil of the West and the Jews before then because it's palpably untrue. And what exactly did those in Bali do to create the problem? Not to mention that retaliations against civilians for the actions of their governments is utterly morally wrong. Responsibility for acts of violence rests with those who perpetrate them and those who incite them to do so.

We are the victims? Not yet, but we will be soon..

Insulting to those who died in the 7th of July bombings, not to mention anyone connected to them.

Reply 15

gas_panic!

FreedomtoFascism

Both spawned conspiracy theories? Hmmm yeah, because a lot of people like to talk ****.

Not blaim (blame) ourselves? Why should we blame ourselves? We were told that Iraq had WMD's, and people act now like it was stupid to even think that they might have.

"We created the problem ourselves"
Oh dear ,yawn. Its all our fault as usual. Better grow you're beard now.

Reply 16

tehjonny

FreedomtoFascism

If i get punched once by someone, I consider them a threat. I do not say 'hey, its probably my fault, I'll let him hit me a few more times', and decide he is not a threat until later. The same is true of this country and the US. One terrible atrocity is enough quite frankly, why should we have waited for a few more before we took action?

Because Iraq is so much worse off than when Saddam was in charge? When Saddam Hussein fell from power, whether due to invasion or natural causes, Iraq would have descended into civil war and anarchy most likely. We may have invaded, but the present situation would not have arisen if Shia/Sunni factions and extremist insurgents had not taken advantage of the power vacuum, to the detriment of the Iraqi populace.

We did not create the problem ourselves! Rather than engage in dialogue, they decide to bomb the US? Their madness and hate is our fault how? Islamic extremists could have taken an other route...or rather they could not have because of their inherent bigotry and fanaticism.

Do you understand what Schadenfreude means? You are a classic example, you relish the suffering and prospective suffering of your own country, to support a group of violent, homophobic *****, who wish for women to be oppressed worldwide, who wish for the introduction of execution of homosexuals and those that commit the terrible crime of being raped?

And all so you can appear 'anti-Israel' and 'anti-western', so as to be 'leftwing', and against the 'evil government'. You're really cool man. Prick.

Reply 17

Loke

Foundationless victim mentality? That's rich. How may innocent UK, or even Western citizens have died or been targeted due to the War on Islam... I mean Terror compared to innocent Muslims worldwide?

It's this retarded 'with us or against us' mentality that people like tehjohnny subscribe to that's poisoned and polarized relations between Islam and the West, and now it's gotten to the point where it seems they can't be salvaged. Europeans have had enough with the general Muslim victim-mentality and Muslims have had it with the general European Islamophobia. It's turned into the equivalent of race relations in the US. Unless a drastic, almost miraculous change takes place, the future's not looking pretty.

Everyone's the victim of the current state of affairs tehjohnny, and as much as people like yourself would love to believe that the vast majority of muslims aren't rational human beings, it's just - not - true. Extremist imams have been around for centuries. Why is it that so many muslims are only starting to listen to them now?

I've had many muslim friends in Denmark, where even at the height of the Mohammed cartoon controversy not a single protest remotely like the ones you saw in the UK, and definitely not the Middle East took place there. Why? Because Denmark has made the effort to integrate muslims into Danish society. It's the pricks like Abu Laban, George W. Bush (and tehjohnny) who try to put people into two different categories, that should either learn to shut that orofice in their face that's an endless source of hate-mongering bull****, or take that rancid propaganda back to Nazi Germany where it belongs.

Reply 18

tehjonny

I did not say the vast majority of Muslims are irrational, but they do support extremists because they fail to condemn them, and always seem to say terrorism is wrong, with the caveat that it is understandable. It is not understandable. I say the victim mentality is foundationless because it existed long before the present situation arose, and has only gotten worse. When 50 people die I think we have the right to be annoyed...when the Pope utters a sentence, when muslims get arrested based on intelligence the police and security services believe to be genuine, muslims should not start burning down churches and killing nuns. After 7/7 we did not start attacking mosques and embassies...even though the affront was much greater. This is the seminal difference. Muslims claim we should try to understand them, and tolerate their way of life. I see them putting no such duties upon themselves. They entirely blame us, and so do many people in this country, just because it is the 'cool' thing to do.

You claim Europe is Islamphobic, and maybe this is the case. However, I think that was getting much better before Bin Laden and his cronies decided to kill 3000 people, not to mention the attacks in the 90's. We cannot be solely blamed for this, this prejudice was getting better, and has got worse because the actions of extremist muslims in the past decade.

You say we should make more efforts to integrate muslims...integration is a two way street, all our efforts will mean nothing if muslims do not take action themselves. We do make efforts to integrate our muslim population, and they are resisted. Yet this is still our fault?

Why is the onous entirely upon us to understand and tolerate? How is this going to serve any purpose is muslims do not meet us in the middle?

You claim to be rational, to be able to see the reasons of both sides aggression. But you still think it is our fault in entirety? This is irrational. I do not claim we are entirely in the right, far from it. But we are making more efforts to solve this problem than the majority of muslims are. We can understand all we want. If muslims do not do the same and do not feel they need to do the same, it is pointless. You call for us to understand and appease...is it not also upon Islam to do this?

You say I am a hate-monger...so, I assume Mr.Izzadeen is an oppressed victim of the west? I am far less extreme than many Islamic leaders...but I bet you don't see this. Take a hint Loke, WW2 told us appeasement of maniacs does not work, precisely because they are maniacs.

As far as I'm concerned, you're the type of bloke who calls the Taliban and Hizbullah 'freedom fighters', despite the heinous nature of their actions. It comes down to aim, and our aim is not the utter destruction of an entire way of life.

Reply 19

Loke

When the Mohammed cartoon crisis exploded, what footage of Muslims did you see on TV? The thousands of young, pissed off, unemployed Arabs burning Danish flags on the street, or the millions who were sitting by the TV, shaking their heads as they watched the crisis unfold, like the rest of us?

Yes, Muslims as a whole have a huge chip on their shoulder, but it is understandable, from an emotional point of view. Bush is constantly ranting about Islamic extremists, Islamic fascists, Islamic terrorists. If he was ranting about the IRA, ie. Catholic extremists, Catholic terrorists, he wouldn't really be gaining the support of Catholics worldwide either.

You claim to be rational, to be able to see the reasons of both sides aggression. But you still think it is our fault in entirety? This is irrational. I do not claim we are entirely in the right, far from it. But we are making more efforts to solve this problem than the majority of muslims are. We can understand all we want. If muslims do not do the same and do not feel they need to do the same, it is pointless. You call for us to understand and appease...is it not also upon Islam to do this?

You say I am a hate-monger...so, I assume Mr.Izzadeen is an oppressed victim of the west? I am far less extreme than many Islamic leaders...but I bet you don't see this. Take a hint Loke, WW2 told us appeasement of maniacs does not work, precisely because they are maniacs.

As far as I'm concerned, you're the type of bloke who calls the Taliban and Hizbullah 'freedom fighters', despite the heinous nature of their actions. It comes down to aim, and our aim is not the utter destruction of an entire way of life.

Man, you really, really aren't listening. I hate Islamic extremists as much as I despise Western extremists, in whatever form they may come, be it neocons or the IRA. The Taliban are pricks. The Israeli government is filled with pricks. Hezbollah are pricks. neo-Nazis are pricks. Understand? They and the fools who support their views (like you) are the ones who do a disservice not only to the people they claim to be fighting for, but humanity as a whole.