DrAdrenaline
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hello, i've got a few question as you can see...

can some one enlighten me about what academic medicine or clinical academics is and what it involves. for example, what sort of research they do, and how much time they spend on research and how much they spend on the hospital working as a doctor.

also, what is the difference between doing research as a biomedical scientist or similar, and doing research as a medical doctor?

and finally, beside oxbridge, imperial and UCL, what other universities is good if i want to pursue a career in academic medicine, like which med schools are good for research.

any answers are appreciated and thanks in advance.
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Okorange
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(Original post by swopnil)
hello, i've got a few question as you can see...

can some one enlighten me about what academic medicine or clinical academics is and what it involves. for example, what sort of research they do, and how much time they spend on research and how much they spend on the hospital working as a doctor.

also, what is the difference between doing research as a biomedical scientist or similar, and doing research as a medical doctor?

and finally, beside oxbridge, imperial and UCL, what other universities is good if i want to pursue a career in academic medicine, like which med schools are good for research.

any answers are appreciated and thanks in advance.
From what I know, you can work part time as a consultant. Generally academic physicians do clinical research rather than basic sciences research. So for instance surgeons will do studies on outcomes of different surgeries or post-operative treatments. Physicians might look at different treatments for a condition.

Academic physicians may sometimes do more basic sciences research (looking at proteins, receptors, genetics etc) but that is more rare and more distant from their job as a physician. They will often do a PhD in the basic sciences for this.

Generally academic physicians split their time, some do 4 days of clinics and 1 day of research while others will do 4 days of research and 1 day of clinic.

Honestly any medical school is fine at such an early stage in your career. It really doesn't matter what medical school you go to, all will allow you to become an academic physician. If you want to go to a school which has a lot of research going on (meaning you can participate in a wider variety of clinical research) then its worth checking out those you listed + schools like Edinburgh, Manchester, King's, Bart's, to name only a few.

For example, my school St Andrews, doesn't have a close major teaching hospital, so access to research is very limited, mainly in the basic sciences. Of course its only for the first 3 years when you aren't likely to be doing anything of significance, but if you are really interested in research, look for researchers in the fields you are interested on the school's website. Many will have institutes, like MRC centers and BHF centers etc. I believe that the MRC, BHF funded centers tend to have better funding and be more renowned.

Worth checking out: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_Research_Council_(United_Kingdom)
http://www.bhf.org.uk/research/centres-of-research-excellence.aspx
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Beska
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Check this out as well: http://student.bmj.com/student/view-...?id=sbmj.g3506
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DrAdrenaline
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(Original post by Okorange)
From what I know, you can work part time as a consultant. Generally academic physicians do clinical research rather than basic sciences research. So for instance surgeons will do studies on outcomes of different surgeries or post-operative treatments. Physicians might look at different treatments for a condition.

Academic physicians may sometimes do more basic sciences research (looking at proteins, receptors, genetics etc) but that is more rare and more distant from their job as a physician. They will often do a PhD in the basic sciences for this.

Generally academic physicians split their time, some do 4 days of clinics and 1 day of research while others will do 4 days of research and 1 day of clinic.

Honestly any medical school is fine at such an early stage in your career. It really doesn't matter what medical school you go to, all will allow you to become an academic physician. If you want to go to a school which has a lot of research going on (meaning you can participate in a wider variety of clinical research) then its worth checking out those you listed + schools like Edinburgh, Manchester, King's, Bart's, to name only a few.

For example, my school St Andrews, doesn't have a close major teaching hospital, so access to research is very limited, mainly in the basic sciences. Of course its only for the first 3 years when you aren't likely to be doing anything of significance, but if you are really interested in research, look for researchers in the fields you are interested on the school's website. Many will have institutes, like MRC centers and BHF centers etc. I believe that the MRC, BHF funded centers tend to have better funding and be more renowned.

Worth checking out: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_Research_Council_(United_Kingdom)
http://www.bhf.org.uk/research/centres-of-research-excellence.aspx
thanks for your answer.
so do you go into academic medicine by doing MB/PHD and going on from there, or do you just do your foundation years, specialise then choose to be involved in research and other scholarly activities with institutes like BHF like you mentioned? thanks again.
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DrAdrenaline
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i have to register to read it??
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Okorange
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(Original post by swopnil)
thanks for your answer.
so do you go into academic medicine by doing MB/PHD and going on from there, or do you just do your foundation years, specialise then choose to be involved in research and other scholarly activities with institutes like BHF like you mentioned? thanks again.
There are many paths are really many different ways to get involved. For one you can get involved in research working for professors in your free time, many schools offer intercalated BSc where you can pursue a research topic of your interest. Different schools offer different selections of topics, some schools will allow you to do your iBSc at another school if your school doesn't offer something you want. Otherwise, some schools will have SSCs where you can work on a research project.

There is the Academic foundation programme which is good if you are thinking Academic medicine. I'm not that knowlegeable about the specifics however, something someone else might be able to provide for you.

MB/PhD is a good option as well but really its something not available to many students, I know UCL has a program. But again its most certainly not the only way to get into research, most likely your PhD will be in basic sciences, so a good option if you are into basic sciences. I think MD/PhDs have really been touted in the US but its only really popular in the US because medical school tuition is enormous and those in the MD/PhD programs in the US pay no tuition and get a stipend for their entire degree. This really isn't as applicable in the UK, so its not as popular an option.

After foundation training you can do a MD or PhD degree where you do 2 for MD or 3-4 years for PhD before entering speciality training.

The just of it is that you can basically enter research from multiple pathways. As long as you have interest at any stage in your career you can probably find a way to get involved.
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Hype en Ecosse
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(Original post by swopnil)
i have to register to read it??
Yep, I'd recommend do it! It answers your question completely about how you get into academic medicine.
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DrAdrenaline
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(Original post by Okorange)
There are many paths are really many different ways to get involved. For one you can get involved in research working for professors in your free time, many schools offer intercalated BSc where you can pursue a research topic of your interest. Different schools offer different selections of topics, some schools will allow you to do your iBSc at another school if your school doesn't offer something you want. Otherwise, some schools will have SSCs where you can work on a research project.

There is the Academic foundation programme which is good if you are thinking Academic medicine. I'm not that knowlegeable about the specifics however, something someone else might be able to provide for you.

MB/PhD is a good option as well but really its something not available to many students, I know UCL has a program. But again its most certainly not the only way to get into research, most likely your PhD will be in basic sciences, so a good option if you are into basic sciences. I think MD/PhDs have really been touted in the US but its only really popular in the US because medical school tuition is enormous and those in the MD/PhD programs in the US pay no tuition and get a stipend for their entire degree. This really isn't as applicable in the UK, so its not as popular an option.

After foundation training you can do a MD or PhD degree where you do 2 for MD or 3-4 years for PhD before entering speciality training.

The just of it is that you can basically enter research from multiple pathways. As long as you have interest at any stage in your career you can probably find a way to get involved.
yes, i think i will definitely be doing the intercalated BSc degree on a topic that interests me at med school, and then i will probably end up doing a PHD somewhere along the lines depending on how i feel. but first i'm just going to have to focus on my a-levels so that i can get into the top university don't i?, hopefully cambridge; wish me luck!
i will give you reps because you have been very helpful. thanks again.

edit:
also i have one more question. i don't know what sort of research i will go into yet, but if i were to do research in basic science, what would be the difference in the work you do and the work that a biomedical scientist or pharmacologist does? would they be the same (esp. with biomedical scientists as you would be researching the same thing.) also if i decide to do a research in basic science would i still be working as a medical doctor in a hospital.
another question i just thought of now is, does it matter what field you specialise in, for example would certain specialities (like oncology) allow you to get into research more easily as opposed to say anaesthesia?
thanks.
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DrAdrenaline
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(Original post by Hype en Ecosse)
Yep, I'd recommend do it! It answers your question completely about how you get into academic medicine.
yes i have registered now and it was certainly very helpful. i understand a lot more regarding my career now. and beska thanks for the link.
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Hype en Ecosse
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(Original post by swopnil)
yes, i think i will definitely be doing the intercalated BSc degree on a topic that interests me at med school, and then i will probably end up doing a PHD somewhere along the lines depending on how i feel. but first i'm just going to have to focus on my a-levels so that i can get into the top university don't i?, hopefully cambridge; wish me luck!
i will give you reps because you have been very helpful. thanks again.

edit:
also i have one more question. i don't know what sort of research i will go into yet, but if i were to do research in basic science, what would be the difference in the work you do and the work that a biomedical scientist or pharmacologist does? would they be the same (esp. with biomedical scientists as you would be researching the same thing.) also if i decide to do a research in basic science would i still be working as a medical doctor in a hospital.
another question i just thought of now is, does it matter what field you specialise in, for example would certain specialities (like oncology) allow you to get into research more easily as opposed to say anaesthesia?
thanks.
Biomedical scientists are healthcare professionals as opposed to research scientists (although that is an option for those interested in academia, as with every degree!), and there are also opportunities for work in industry (again, as with most science degrees ). The same can be said of a pharmacologist, without the healthcare role (these roles are filled by pharmacists and clinical pharmacologists!)

Also worth noting that pharmacology is considered a basic science to medicine as well, so basic science research could encompass pharmacology! Similarly, biomedical scientists in academia also perform basic science research! Basic science research would be any research in a field fundamental to medicine.

Academic clinicians, as you'd expect, tend to work in the same/a related field as/to their clinical one. Although, I'm not sure how feasible it is to get into academia in a field of research totally unrelated to your own. If you're still doing your A-levels, it's far too early for you to worry about any of this. It's many, many years away!
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DrAdrenaline
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(Original post by Hype en Ecosse)
Biomedical scientists are healthcare professionals as opposed to research scientists (although that is an option for those interested in academia, as with every degree!), and there are also opportunities for work in industry (again, as with most science degrees ). The same can be said of a pharmacologist, without the healthcare role (these roles are filled by pharmacists and clinical pharmacologists!)

Also worth noting that pharmacology is considered a basic science to medicine as well, so basic science research could encompass pharmacology! Similarly, biomedical scientists in academia also perform basic science research! Basic science research would be any research in a field fundamental to medicine.

Academic clinicians, as you'd expect, tend to work in the same/a related field as/to their clinical one. Although, I'm not sure how feasible it is to get into academia in a field of research totally unrelated to your own. If you're still doing your A-levels, it's far too early for you to worry about any of this. It's many, many years away!
yes, it is too far to early to worry about any of this, but i just wanted to be clear about all the opportunity that was available to me attaining a medical degree. i love science and the idea of researching but i also like the aspect of working with patients like medical doctors do so this is why i picked medicine. But if i found that medicine only trained me to be a doctor for my whole life then i will not pick it because othewise the part of me that wants to do research to better the lives of other people would die then and this isn;t what i want. yes, i admit i will probably change my mind a million times while faced with different opportunities that life has to throw at me, but at least for now, my soul is satisfied that doing medicine is the next step forward in my life.
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