Year In Industry
I'm looking to study either Mechanical or Aerospace Engineering at uni, starting in 2015. But my question is whether a year in industry is worthwhile?? If so, do you have to commit to the placement year in your initial UCAS choices, or can you decide in your first or second year of the course?
Help is much appreciated!
Help is much appreciated!
Original post by JimmyW1996
I'm looking to study either Mechanical or Aerospace Engineering at uni, starting in 2015. But my question is whether a year in industry is worthwhile?? If so, do you have to commit to the placement year in your initial UCAS choices, or can you decide in your first or second year of the course?
Help is much appreciated!
Help is much appreciated!
It's definitely worth it: not only for the experience, the money and increased employability, but most importantly it allows you to get a feel for what you're in for in the future.
You can change your mind when you're at the uni, so you don't have to commit right now.. but double check of course.
As I have said before on this forum, a year industry is good but before taking it you have to think hard of the implications.Taking a year in industry will mean finishing your course a year after your course mates do, so in 4 years you will have a BEng + 1 year internship experience whilst the vast majority of your course mates will have BEng + 1 year graduate experience.You will be more competitive than the BEng students that are just graduating but the vast majority of the cohort you started with will be ahead.
A year in industry also pays just £15K - £17.5K whilst a graduate will probably earn £25K - £30K or even more (e.g Over a third of Southampton ECS graduates have a starting salary over £30K).So also monetary wise you will be behind.My advice would be to NOT take the year in industry.
As for the issue of switching between courses, it is fairly easy to switch if you are a domestic student but if you are an international you may find it difficult to switch from the normal degree to a "with placement" degree because it's a longer degree so a few visa issues will arise.
A year in industry also pays just £15K - £17.5K whilst a graduate will probably earn £25K - £30K or even more (e.g Over a third of Southampton ECS graduates have a starting salary over £30K).So also monetary wise you will be behind.My advice would be to NOT take the year in industry.
As for the issue of switching between courses, it is fairly easy to switch if you are a domestic student but if you are an international you may find it difficult to switch from the normal degree to a "with placement" degree because it's a longer degree so a few visa issues will arise.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by History98
As I have said before on this forum, a year industry is good but before taking it you have to think hard of the implications.Taking a year in industry will mean finishing your course a year after your course mates do, so in 4 years you will have a BEng + 1 year internship experience whilst the vast majority of your course mates will have BEng + 1 year graduate experience.You will be more competitive than the BEng students that are just graduating but the vast majority of the cohort you started with will be ahead.
A year in industry also pays just £15K - £17.5K whilst a graduate will probably earn £25K - £30K or even more (e.g Over a third of Southampton ECS graduates have a starting salary over £30K).So also monetary wise you will be behind.My advice would be to NOT take the year in industry.
A year in industry also pays just £15K - £17.5K whilst a graduate will probably earn £25K - £30K or even more (e.g Over a third of Southampton ECS graduates have a starting salary over £30K).So also monetary wise you will be behind.My advice would be to NOT take the year in industry.
I look at it in a different way.
I would not recommend basing your decision on whether or not your mates will finish a year earlier than you. The chances are that some of them will do placements too! It can be beneficial returning to uni and "comparing notes" with everyone else; did they enjoy the company they worked for, would they recommend applying for a graduate job there etc.
A salary earned from a placement will be a massive help with costs for the remaining year(s) at university. Some companies offer higher starting salaries to those graduates who have done a placement year. In fact, it may be possible to secure a graduate job with a company you worked for as an undergraduate - that removes the pressure of having to apply for jobs during final year!
A placement year may even help with your studies, depending on the work you completed. The technical and transferable skills you develop will definitely not be wasted.
If you have the opportunity to do a placement year then I think you should definitely consider doing one.
Original post by History98
As I have said before on this forum, a year industry is good but before taking it you have to think hard of the implications.Taking a year in industry will mean finishing your course a year after your course mates do, so in 4 years you will have a BEng + 1 year internship experience whilst the vast majority of your course mates will have BEng + 1 year graduate experience.You will be more competitive than the BEng students that are just graduating but the vast majority of the cohort you started with will be ahead.
A year in industry also pays just £15K - £17.5K whilst a graduate will probably earn £25K - £30K or even more (e.g Over a third of Southampton ECS graduates have a starting salary over £30K).So also monetary wise you will be behind.My advice would be to NOT take the year in industry.
A year in industry also pays just £15K - £17.5K whilst a graduate will probably earn £25K - £30K or even more (e.g Over a third of Southampton ECS graduates have a starting salary over £30K).So also monetary wise you will be behind.My advice would be to NOT take the year in industry.
When you get a little older and start hanging out with people that aren't just exactly your age, you will realise that it really doesn't matter that your mate from uni is on a slightly higher salary than you. What you can gain from a placement year is highly valuable experience of the industry itself, which can open so many door it's unimaginable. Your future career is massively dependant on your ability to confidently communicate with others, as well as networking. A placement year will give you a taste of this. Forget that your mate might be on 2k extra or whatever, that year can give you something much more rewarding in the future. Not to mention the extra 15-17.5k you mentioned - that's party time my friend
Original post by History98
As I have said before on this forum, a year industry is good but before taking it you have to think hard of the implications.Taking a year in industry will mean finishing your course a year after your course mates do, so in 4 years you will have a BEng + 1 year internship experience whilst the vast majority of your course mates will have BEng + 1 year graduate experience.You will be more competitive than the BEng students that are just graduating but the vast majority of the cohort you started with will be ahead.
A year in industry also pays just £15K - £17.5K whilst a graduate will probably earn £25K - £30K or even more (e.g Over a third of Southampton ECS graduates have a starting salary over £30K).So also monetary wise you will be behind.My advice would be to NOT take the year in industry.
As for the issue of switching between courses, it is fairly easy to switch if you are a domestic student but if you are an international you may find it difficult to switch from the normal degree to a "with placement" degree because it's a longer degree so a few visa issues will arise.
A year in industry also pays just £15K - £17.5K whilst a graduate will probably earn £25K - £30K or even more (e.g Over a third of Southampton ECS graduates have a starting salary over £30K).So also monetary wise you will be behind.My advice would be to NOT take the year in industry.
As for the issue of switching between courses, it is fairly easy to switch if you are a domestic student but if you are an international you may find it difficult to switch from the normal degree to a "with placement" degree because it's a longer degree so a few visa issues will arise.
Possibly the worst reason I've read on why to not to do a placement. A placement year gives you a really really good shot at working for your dream company especially since a lot of the uni's offer support in getting the placement as opposed to summer ones. Not only are you getting paid but you're gaining invaluable experience about the business and the company itself and gaining the best possible start to your future career. This also means you will be fast tracked or offered a job on their graduate scheme if you impressed them.
It really makes no difference if you graduate one year later no one really cares in reality. You will still be earning a graduate salary and in fact people who have done placement years in the same field which they are working in after graduation often progress quicker so you'll still end up more or less in the same position but better.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by arson_fire
That`s making the assumption that all his/her peers will get graduate level jobs straight away which is not guaranteed. Despite all the articles in the press there isn`t a huge shortage of engineering graduates (engineers yes, but that`s a different debate) and the grad schemes are highly competitive.
One of the biggest barriers to employment is lack of relevant experience. Doing a placement gets some experience, gets some cash, gets something to talk about in interviews, and can lead to a job - it`s not unusual for companies to offer jobs to people after they graduate based on their performance during the industrial placement.
One of the biggest barriers to employment is lack of relevant experience. Doing a placement gets some experience, gets some cash, gets something to talk about in interviews, and can lead to a job - it`s not unusual for companies to offer jobs to people after they graduate based on their performance during the industrial placement.
Yes, thats true, finding a job is a can be a bit difficult but I don't feel the job market is as tough as you trying to make it seem, objectively speaking how many domestic graduates will fail to find a job soon after graduating? The vast majority of 2.1 engineering graduates (> 80%) will have secured a job with a month or two after graduating even if they were just doing summer placements and have not done a placement year.
[QUOTE="a10;51418089"]
Possibly the worst reason I've read on why to not to do a placement. A placement year gives you a really really good shot at working for your dream company especially since a lot of the uni's offer support in getting the placement as opposed to summer ones. Not only are you getting paid but you're gaining invaluable experience about the business and the company itself and gaining the best possible start to your future career. This also means you will be fast tracked or offered a job on their graduate scheme if you impressed them. [\QUOTE]
What support is given to a student that is trying to get a year long placement at your university that is not given to a student trying to get a summer placement?
On the issue of getting offers, do people not get offers for graduate jobs from doing just summer placements? I know several people who are currently holding offers from companies where they did their placement.
Yes, in the long run graduating a year later will really I not make that much of a difference but just because the difference is small does not mean a difference isn't there.Graduate experience is still more valuable than placement experience, that is the point I am trying to point out.Of the people who did the ordinary degree in your original cohort, the only people that you will have an advantage over will be those who were not able to get jobs soon after graduation, all those who did get jobs will have an advantage over you as they will have one more year of graduate experience.
Possibly the worst reason I've read on why to not to do a placement. A placement year gives you a really really good shot at working for your dream company especially since a lot of the uni's offer support in getting the placement as opposed to summer ones. Not only are you getting paid but you're gaining invaluable experience about the business and the company itself and gaining the best possible start to your future career. This also means you will be fast tracked or offered a job on their graduate scheme if you impressed them. [\QUOTE]
What support is given to a student that is trying to get a year long placement at your university that is not given to a student trying to get a summer placement?
On the issue of getting offers, do people not get offers for graduate jobs from doing just summer placements? I know several people who are currently holding offers from companies where they did their placement.
Original post by a10
It really makes no difference if you graduate one year later no one really cares in reality. You will still be earning a graduate salary and in fact people who have done placement years in the same field which they are working in after graduation often progress quicker so you'll still end up more or less in the same position but better.
It really makes no difference if you graduate one year later no one really cares in reality. You will still be earning a graduate salary and in fact people who have done placement years in the same field which they are working in after graduation often progress quicker so you'll still end up more or less in the same position but better.
Yes, in the long run graduating a year later will really I not make that much of a difference but just because the difference is small does not mean a difference isn't there.Graduate experience is still more valuable than placement experience, that is the point I am trying to point out.Of the people who did the ordinary degree in your original cohort, the only people that you will have an advantage over will be those who were not able to get jobs soon after graduation, all those who did get jobs will have an advantage over you as they will have one more year of graduate experience.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by AeroM
I look at it in a different way.
I would not recommend basing your decision on whether or not your mates will finish a year earlier than you. The chances are that some of them will do placements too! It can be beneficial returning to uni and "comparing notes" with everyone else; did they enjoy the company they worked for, would they recommend applying for a graduate job there etc.
A salary earned from a placement will be a massive help with costs for the remaining year(s) at university. Some companies offer higher starting salaries to those graduates who have done a placement year. In fact, it may be possible to secure a graduate job with a company you worked for as an undergraduate - that removes the pressure of having to apply for jobs during final year!
A placement year may even help with your studies, depending on the work you completed. The technical and transferable skills you develop will definitely not be wasted.
If you have the opportunity to do a placement year then I think you should definitely consider doing one.
I would not recommend basing your decision on whether or not your mates will finish a year earlier than you. The chances are that some of them will do placements too! It can be beneficial returning to uni and "comparing notes" with everyone else; did they enjoy the company they worked for, would they recommend applying for a graduate job there etc.
A salary earned from a placement will be a massive help with costs for the remaining year(s) at university. Some companies offer higher starting salaries to those graduates who have done a placement year. In fact, it may be possible to secure a graduate job with a company you worked for as an undergraduate - that removes the pressure of having to apply for jobs during final year!
A placement year may even help with your studies, depending on the work you completed. The technical and transferable skills you develop will definitely not be wasted.
If you have the opportunity to do a placement year then I think you should definitely consider doing one.
I disagree with the first point, if you take a placement year you elongate the time to degree by one year so I feel the key point of the discussion is whether that year is worth it or not.If someone tells me they are doing an integrated placement year (like the one at Aston Uni) i would not object.
The way I see it is if you are taking a year out then you are making a trade off, you are essentially improving your job prospects on graduation but the trade off is that you have swapped the possibility of getting 1 year of graduate experience for 1 year of internship experience.
Your second point is very good, I see where you are coming from.Money during your time at university is a very scarce resource to say the least, so it is more valuable to you at that point in time than it would be if you were a graduate.I can also see why it could possibly help with the degree, but I don't think the improvement in performance will be considerable (doubt you will finish a class lower just because you didn't do a placement).
As for the starting salaries, even if placement graduates average slightly higher starting salaries will that difference compensate for the difference between graduate salaries and placement salaries? Doubt it
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by arson_fire
Probably nearer to 40% of graduates working in engineering, and not all on grad schemes or other training programs. If you want to get on a good grad scheme with a decent company, anything that makes you stand out from the vast numbers of graduates with a generic 2:1 and no work experience is good. A good work placement can be the difference between an interview and a rejection.
40%?! Thats less than half, I don't think so.
Unistats provides data on the proportion of graduates who get jobs within 6 months.I know data combines students who have and have not had placements together but still think looking at the data is still useful, especially if you confine your search to those universities with no predefined "with placement" streams as at those universities the vast majority of graduates will not have completed a placement.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by History98
What support is given to a student that is trying to get a year long placement at your university that is not given to a student trying to get a summer placement?
What support is given to a student that is trying to get a year long placement at your university that is not given to a student trying to get a summer placement?
I can only speak for my uni but they actually sit down with you and help you with the actual application form and give you 1 to 1 advise on how to tackle certain aspects hence help you in securing your placement. Of course they don't actually do the application for you but they definitely support you and run specific workshops just for you to get your CV checked, cover letter checked and all that stuff. They also find a specific database of employers for you based on your interests and the universities contacts to help maximise success rates.
Original post by History98
On the issue of getting offers, do people not get offers for graduate jobs from doing just summer placements?
On the issue of getting offers, do people not get offers for graduate jobs from doing just summer placements?
This is very rare and you would be very very lucky if this happened. An 8-12 week placement is not enough time for a company to just offer you a graduate job out the blue. They usually just offer you the opportunity to be fast tracked on certain stages of the graduate job.
Original post by History98
Graduate experience is still more valuable than placement experience, that is the point I am trying to point out.Of the people who did the ordinary degree in your original cohort, the only people that you will have an advantage over will be those who were not able to get jobs soon after graduation, all those who did get jobs will have an advantage over you as they will have one more year of graduate experience.
Graduate experience is still more valuable than placement experience, that is the point I am trying to point out.Of the people who did the ordinary degree in your original cohort, the only people that you will have an advantage over will be those who were not able to get jobs soon after graduation, all those who did get jobs will have an advantage over you as they will have one more year of graduate experience.
Not really, as I said earlier providing you did a placement in the same field you're going to work in after graduation then you will progress much quicker in your graduate position because you already have the experience, so even though they may have started a year earlier you are hardly in a dis-advantaged position. As someone also said above it opens 100x more doors because you meet very important people who could help you secure a lot more opportunities in future.
In my opinion if you have the shot of getting into one of your dream companies through a one year placement then why not take that opportunity. It's an opportunity that only comes once and one that you may not see again for a very long time.
In reality many engineering graduates struggle to find jobs regardless if they have 2.1 or above (especially with no prior experience) and many people just end up settling for less because that's the only thing they can find.
Original post by a10
I can only speak for my uni but they actually sit down with you and help you with the actual application form and give you 1 to 1 advise on how to tackle certain aspects hence help you in securing your placement. Of course they don't actually do the application for you but they definitely support you and run specific workshops just for you to get your CV checked, cover letter checked and all that stuff. They also find a specific database of employers for you based on your interests and the universities contacts to help maximise success rates.
I guess it differs by University.At my university you get 1 to 1 help with your CV and with applications you are having difficulty with regardless of whether you are applying for a year long placement or a summer placement.You also get access to a database of current employment opportunities.
Original post by a10
This is very rare and you would be very very lucky if this happened. An 8-12 week placement is not enough time for a company to just offer you a graduate job out the blue. They usually just offer you the opportunity to be fast tracked on certain stages of the graduate job.
This is very rare and you would be very very lucky if this happened. An 8-12 week placement is not enough time for a company to just offer you a graduate job out the blue. They usually just offer you the opportunity to be fast tracked on certain stages of the graduate job.
I am very surprised you said this, out of all the people I know who completed summer placements ( excluding those who did their placements oncampus) I can only think of exactly ONE person who did not get a job offer after a summer placement.It is not rare at all.
Original post by a10
Not really, as I said earlier providing you did a placement in the same field you're going to work in after graduation then you will progress much quicker in your graduate position because you already have the experience, so even though they may have started a year earlier you are hardly in a dis-advantaged position. As someone also said above it opens 100x more doors because you meet very important people who could help you secure a lot more opportunities in future.
In my opinion if you have the shot of getting into one of your dream companies through a one year placement then why not take that opportunity. It's an opportunity that only comes once and one that you may not see again for a very long time.
In reality many engineering graduates struggle to find jobs regardless if they have 2.1 or above (especially with no prior experience) and many people just end up settling for less because that's the only thing they can find.
Not really, as I said earlier providing you did a placement in the same field you're going to work in after graduation then you will progress much quicker in your graduate position because you already have the experience, so even though they may have started a year earlier you are hardly in a dis-advantaged position. As someone also said above it opens 100x more doors because you meet very important people who could help you secure a lot more opportunities in future.
In my opinion if you have the shot of getting into one of your dream companies through a one year placement then why not take that opportunity. It's an opportunity that only comes once and one that you may not see again for a very long time.
In reality many engineering graduates struggle to find jobs regardless if they have 2.1 or above (especially with no prior experience) and many people just end up settling for less because that's the only thing they can find.
No, they are not equivalent.If a job asks for at least 5 years graduate experience you can not use your industrial placement experience towards that requirement.A placement is just a long internship, the experience is not the same as graduate experience.
And for the last point, as I said earlier, I agree that a year in industry will put you ahead of those who could not get jobs after graduating but those that where able to get jobs soon after graduation will end up with an advantage over you as they will have more graduate experience.
Original post by arson_fire
Not all engineering graduates go into engineering jobs.
Agreed, but the majority of those working will be in Engineering or engineering allied occupations.Some people leave engineering by choice for personal reasons or for higher salaries in other sectors.
[QUOTE="arson_fire;51420107"]
At random from unistats: M.Eng elec engineering at Manchester uni: 60% are working, of those 95% are in a professional role, and of those 80% are actually working in engineering. Thats 45% directly employed in engineering 6 months after graduating, and not all of them will be on grad or training schemes. Interesting that 15% of M.Eng graduates are unemployed 6 months after - thats quite high for an in-demand subject from a top uni[\QUOTE]
If you exclude the people going onto further study, the proportion of people working is 75%, and a further 6.25% are not unemployed but engaged in "other" activities.An unemployment rate of 18.75% is not bad, especially if you factor in the fact that 30% of the graduates failed to achieve at least a 2.1.
Original post by arson_fire
To put it in perspective Jaguar Land Rover gets about 8000 applicants for 100 grad vacancies, National Grid gets about 4000 applicants for 40 vacancies. You can bet the majority of those applicants have a 2:1 in engineering from a decent uni. If you want that job you need something, anything, to raise your profile above all the other students.
To put it in perspective Jaguar Land Rover gets about 8000 applicants for 100 grad vacancies, National Grid gets about 4000 applicants for 40 vacancies. You can bet the majority of those applicants have a 2:1 in engineering from a decent uni. If you want that job you need something, anything, to raise your profile above all the other students.
First off, there are far more applications than applicants since the vast majority of applicants apply to more than one job.So if for example you have 10 companies each having 100 jobs and 2000 applicants each send 1 application to each of the 10 companies, you end up with each company boasting about having 2000 applicants for the 100 jobs they have but the actual ratio of applicants to jobs is 1 to 2.So the situation is not as bad as it may first seem, and the data on Unistats is a testament to that.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by kingm
When you get a little older and start hanging out with people that aren't just exactly your age, you will realise that it really doesn't matter that your mate from uni is on a slightly higher salary than you.
Don't know what the issue first sentence is meant to address, yes in the long run the difference will be small but your argument was that a placement year is better and I was pointing out that of the people from your original cohort, a placement year will only give you an advantage over those graduates who failed to get jobs after graduation, those who just did summer internships then got jobs soon after graduation will have an advantage over you as they will have more graduate experience when you finally graduate a year later.
Original post by kingm
What you can gain from a placement year is highly valuable experience of the industry itself, which can open so many door it's unimaginable. Your future career is massively dependant on your ability to confidently communicate with others, as well as networking. A placement year will give you a taste of this. Forget that your mate might be on 2k extra or whatever, that year can give you something much more rewarding in the future. Not to mention the extra 15-17.5k you mentioned - that's party time my friend
What you can gain from a placement year is highly valuable experience of the industry itself, which can open so many door it's unimaginable. Your future career is massively dependant on your ability to confidently communicate with others, as well as networking. A placement year will give you a taste of this. Forget that your mate might be on 2k extra or whatever, that year can give you something much more rewarding in the future. Not to mention the extra 15-17.5k you mentioned - that's party time my friend
Will the year as a graduate engineer not give you those experiences? What makes you think that having a year long placement looks better on a CV than a 1 year of graduate experience? Why would a 1 year placement be "much more rewarding" than 1 year as a graduate engineer? And just to clarify, the lost income will be in the region of £10K (the difference between the starting salary of a graduate and a student on a placement year).
I year in industry is good, but the engineering jobs market isn't so competitive that you simply must have that years' experience before graduation to have any chance of securing a job. As History98 points out, a year in industry can be a lost income of circa £10,000. Obviously, you can't bank on getting a job after university, but if you're a good engineering student and manage to get some form of work experience alongside your studies, e.g. a summer placement, it's a good bet that you'll get one.
I'm not trying to dissuade anyone with the above, but it's definitely something to consider.
I'm not trying to dissuade anyone with the above, but it's definitely something to consider.
Original post by History98
your argument was that a placement year is better and I was pointing out that of the people from your original cohort, a placement year will only give you an advantage over those graduates who failed to get jobs after graduation, those who just did summer internships then got jobs soon after graduation will have an advantage over you as they will have more graduate experience when you finally graduate a year later.
Will the year as a graduate engineer not give you those experiences? What makes you think that having a year long placement looks better on a CV than a 1 year of graduate experience? Why would a 1 year placement be "much more rewarding" than 1 year as a graduate engineer? And just to clarify, the lost income will be in the region of £10K (the difference between the starting salary of a graduate and a student on a placement year).
Will the year as a graduate engineer not give you those experiences? What makes you think that having a year long placement looks better on a CV than a 1 year of graduate experience? Why would a 1 year placement be "much more rewarding" than 1 year as a graduate engineer? And just to clarify, the lost income will be in the region of £10K (the difference between the starting salary of a graduate and a student on a placement year).
I did not say that a placement year is better than a graduate year, i just said that a placement year is valuable and worthwhile...
Original post by kingm
It's definitely worth it
I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, i just think you're not speaking about things particularly objectively for everyone to get a proper picture. Comparing a graduate year to a placement year is missing the point of a placement year entirely.
Of course, the summer placements will give you a taster of what it's like, there is no doubt about that. But my rationale is that a year will give you long enough to actually imagine what life will be like in your chosen profession. 2-3 months is generally the honey-moon period for any job: everything is new, from the people to the environment, it's all exciting. But after 2-3 months you are settled and begin to judge whether or not you are truly enjoying what you are doing.
1 years placement can be the difference between whether or not you go in to design, consultancy, management or leave engineering all together. It can potentially save you a lot of time and money in the long run.
Perhaps for the hardy engineer who know's exactly what it is they want to do, a years placement could be futile. But i would suggest to anyone with a slight uncertainty of what exactly it is they want to to with their engineering degree, go for the placement year. And for those that are 100% sure of what they want to do, a placement year is still worthwhile. But, each to their own, of course.
(edited 9 years ago)
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