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Hollywood Hogan
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Is KCL much better than Durham?
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Eboracum
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Durham is better than KCL Mr Hogan.
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Hollywood Hogan
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(Original post by Eboracum)
Durham is better than KCL Mr Hogan.
Based on what? Isn't KCL UK top 5 & World top 15 in the latest QS World Rankings?
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Eboracum
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(Original post by Hollywood Hogan)
Based on what? Isn't KCL UK top 5 & World top 15 in the latest QS World Rankings?
It's a difficult one isn't it. Because why would one take world rankings over UK rankings? If you used different criteria (The Complete University Guide for example) you'd find Durham 5th and King's College London 28th.

I think ultimately, students will use the league table that suits them best, but the variation is vast. You'd find for example UCL joint 5th in the world in the QS but 9th in the UK in the Complete University Guide.

So take rankings with a pinch of salt. I consider Durham and UCL as the best two non-Oxbridge universities in the UK, thus I've applied to both for postgrad. I'd argue King's College London is weaker than UCL, LSE and Imperial.

But it's all just opinion. Nobody's view is absolute. Best of luck with your university choices.
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Hollywood Hogan
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(Original post by Eboracum)
It's a difficult one isn't it. Because why would one take world rankings over UK rankings? If you used different criteria (The Complete University Guide for example) you'd find Durham 5th and King's College London 28th.

I think ultimately, students will use the league table that suits them best, but the variation is vast. You'd find for example UCL joint 5th in the world in the QS but 9th in the UK in the Complete University Guide.

So take rankings with a pinch of salt. I consider Durham and UCL as the best two non-Oxbridge universities in the UK, thus I've applied to both for postgrad. I'd argue King's College London is weaker than UCL, LSE and Imperial.

But it's all just opinion. Nobody's view is absolute. Best of luck with your university choices.
UCL is where I am currently at for a masters. But I still stand by the claim that KCL is held in a far higher regard internationally than Durham, even if Durham edges the opinion polls in the UK.
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Eboracum
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(Original post by Hollywood Hogan)
UCL is where I am currently at for a masters. But I still stand by the claim that KCL is held in a far higher regard internationally than Durham, even if Durham edges the opinion polls in the UK.
My references have just submitted tonight so I'm waiting to hear from UCL. If I don't get in I'd consider KCL as a back up. Would you recommend UCL?

I'd argue Durham has a stronger UK reputation than both UCL and KCL, but globally, both of them have a stronger, but not "far" stronger reputation than Durham. I think the London universities have the location advantage. Although saying that my Australian relative in Perth was only familiar with Oxbridge and Durham.

So I guess you weigh it up. And whilst other factors would be considered, I'd be looking to be hired in the UK, thus I'd go Durham over KCL, but it's all opinion.

Did you undergrad at UCL as well?
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Hollywood Hogan
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(Original post by Eboracum)
My references have just submitted tonight so I'm waiting to hear from UCL. If I don't get in I'd consider KCL as a back up. Would you recommend UCL?

I'd argue Durham has a stronger UK reputation than both UCL and KCL, but globally, both of them have a stronger, but not "far" stronger reputation than Durham. I think the London universities have the location advantage. Although saying that my Australian relative in Perth was only familiar with Oxbridge and Durham.

So I guess you weigh it up. And whilst other factors would be considered, I'd be looking to be hired in the UK, thus I'd go Durham over KCL, but it's all opinion.

Did you undergrad at UCL as well?
Durham has a great traditional reputation in the UK, but outside of the UK it is barely heard of anywhere. UCL is considered better overall than Durham, and is widely described as the best multi-faculty university after Oxbridge. It is quite common for students who find Oxbridge degrees too tough to transfer to UCL. UCL also interview students for most of their courses. UCL has a pretty good brand across the World, mainly due to the good performances in the World rankings. Certainly international students would be far more interested in these than UK rankings, the latter don't really measure prestige (just look at the rankings for Heriot Watt and Lancaster, punching way above their weight).

UCL is overall much stronger than Durham for prestige, but as both are about the same age, many just throw them in at the same level of reputation. I'd be proud to be going to either, but I personally sense a much greater pride in belonging to UCL.

I undergrad at Nottingham, but I could have gone to UCL if I could afford it for three years. For a masters it is more affordable.

KCL is far superior than Durham as a research university, but Durham seems to provide a better teaching experience, and a stellar tradition. KCL is almost as old, however I think. The set up it has in Holborn is jaw dropping.

The sign of a great university is one which does well in both UK and World rankings, and UCL does that. KCL and Durham don't.
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Eboracum
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(Original post by Hollywood Hogan)
Durham has a great traditional reputation in the UK, but outside of the UK it is barely heard of anywhere. UCL is considered better overall than Durham, and is widely described as the best multi-faculty university after Oxbridge. It is quite common for students who find Oxbridge degrees too tough to transfer to UCL. UCL also interview students for most of their courses. UCL has a pretty good brand across the World, manly due to the good performances in the World rankings. Certainly international students would be far more interested in these than UK rankings, the latter don't really measure prestige (just look at the rankings for Heriot Watt and Lancaster, punching way above their weight).

UCL is overall much stronger than Durham for prestige, but as both are about the same age, many just throw them in at the same level of reputation. I'd be proud to be going to either, but I personally sense a much greater pride in belonging to UCL.

I undergrad at Nottingham, but I could have gone to UCL if I could afford it for three years. For a masters it is more affordable.

KCL is far superior than Durham as a research university, but Durham seems to provide a better teaching experience, and a stellar tradition. KCL is almost as old, however I think. The set up it has in Holborn is jaw dropping.
It's difficult, because as a student at UCL, you would take the rankings that suit your university best (so the QS which has you joint 5th in the world). But somebody else would argue that for people looking to be hired in the UK by UK companies, the only rankings that matter are UK ones. And even then, you might argue that "reputation" rather than "rankings" are more preferable. Thus you might argue Birmingham and Manchester are more preferable to the universities you mentioned, despite being lower in UK rankings.

I'm not convinced that UCL's prestige is much stronger than Durham's at all. You'd probably find more candidates that had Oxbridge as their first choice at Durham than at UCL. I think for the arts, Durham would traditionally be regarded as the third best university in the UK.

I think KCL for medical research and Conflict studies would be superior than Durham, but perhaps not for other subjects. You might argue Durham is better for English and Classics for example.

Holborn is nice yes, my friend is at LSE. But Durham is a beautiful place to study as well. The Cathedral area is incredible.

I'm not sure man, I think Durham/UCL is a toss up, but both are ahead of KCL for me.
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Hollywood Hogan
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(Original post by Eboracum)
It's difficult, because as a student at UCL, you would take the rankings that suit your university best (so the QS which has you joint 5th in the world). But somebody else would argue that for people looking to be hired in the UK by UK companies, the only rankings that matter are UK ones. And even then, you might argue that "reputation" rather than "rankings" are more preferable. Thus you might argue Birmingham and Manchester are more preferable to the universities you mentioned, despite being lower in UK rankings.

I'm not convinced that UCL's prestige is much stronger than Durham's at all. You'd probably find more candidates that had Oxbridge as their first choice at Durham than at UCL. I think for the arts, Durham would traditionally be regarded as the third best university in the UK.

I think KCL for medical research and Conflict studies would be superior than Durham, but perhaps not for other subjects. You might argue Durham is better for English and Classics for example.

Holborn is nice yes, my friend is at LSE. But Durham is a beautiful place to study as well. The Cathedral area is incredible.

I'm not sure man, I think Durham/UCL is a toss up, but both are ahead of KCL for me.
99% of people would say the G5 are the best universities: Oxbridge, LSE, Imperial and UCL. Durham will never be in this super elite league. What is more, Warwick and Bristol have traditionally been seen as better universities than Durham. Durham is certainly a UK top 10 by reputation, but it isn't a top 6.
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Eboracum
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(Original post by Hollywood Hogan)
99% of people would say the G5 are the best universities: Oxbridge, LSE, Imperial and UCL. Durham will never be in this super elite league. What is more, Warwick and Bristol have traditionally been seen as better universities than Durham. Durham is certainly a UK top 10 by reputation, but it isn't a top 6.
There's just not a chance this correct. It might be the case that those that wish to go into finance on TSR would consider the London universities better, but TSR is a bubble and is not often representative of how things are in the real world. If you went out and spoke to members of the public, many would say Durham is the third best university in the UK, certainly for the arts. Durham beats UCL, KCL, Bristol and Warwick in pretty much every UK league table, so that's a silly comment. In no way shape or form have Bristol or Warwick ever been seen as traditionally better than Durham. It's easily top six and possibly top three.

It's harder to compare LSE and Imperial to Durham because they are so different. I see those as more specialist, where as Durham is more of a "catch all" uni, but if you take those two out of the equation Durham would be #3 in the UK.
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Hollywood Hogan
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(Original post by Eboracum)
There's just not a chance this correct. It might be the case that those that wish to go into finance on TSR would consider the London universities better, but TSR is a bubble and is not often representative of how things are in the real world. If you went out and spoke to members of the public, many would say Durham is the third best university in the UK, certainly for the arts. Durham beats UCL, KCL, Bristol and Warwick in pretty much every UK league table, so that's a silly comment. In no way shape or form have Bristol or Warwick ever been seen as traditionally better than Durham. It's easily top six and possibly top three.

It's harder to compare LSE and Imperial to Durham because they are so different. I see those as more specialist, where as Durham is more of a "catch all" uni, but if you take those two out of the equation Durham would be #3 in the UK.
Warwick and Bristol are better than Durham. They rank a good 20-30 places higher in World rankings than Durham. So for academic research power they trounce Durham. Durham's high tariff requirement has only been in the last 5-6 years or so. It used to be 450 points on average, and now it is as high as 520 points. But UCL has always been in the 500 plus range, even in the lean times. I fear you have been misled by the UK rankings too much. Warwick and Bristol have always been seen as producing the brightest graduates. The fact that Durham is popular with Oxbridge rejects is a bad thing, it means it takes on people who didn't get the grades or failed the interview at Oxbridge.

How can Durham be on even the same level as UCL? If you asked Durham directly, even they would accept UCL is better, being the Golden triangle (Oxford, Cambridge and London).
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_Fergo
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(Original post by Hollywood Hogan)
Warwick and Bristol are better than Durham. They rank a good 20-30 places higher in World rankings than Durham. So for academic research power they trounce Durham. Durham's high tariff requirement has only been in the last 5-6 years or so. It used to be 450 points on average, and now it is as high as 520 points. But UCL has always been in the 500 plus range, even in the lean times. I fear you have been misled by the UK rankings too much. Warwick and Bristol have always been seen as producing the brightest graduates. The fact that Durham is popular with Oxbridge rejects is a bad thing, it means it takes on people who didn't get the grades or failed the interview at Oxbridge.
I'm sorry but what exactly are you trying to prove with all these things (which I barely read to be honest)?

Why do you really care if Durham is better -or worse- than KCL, when you're at UCL?

Something tells me that you're not really at UCL but, rather, at KCL.

Also, doesn't the "Oxbridge rejects" contradict your argument? Is a university is full of "Oxbridge rejects", that would make it the third best university after Oxbridge (not saying that it is, I find it childish to make such irrefutable assumptions).
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Missgeehughes
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I'm sure Durham is wonderful, as it has an excellent reputation etc but from my personal experience, after having spent my summer at KCL I fell in love with the university. They're very student focused and being in the heart of London really gives you access to a multitude of opportunities.
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Hollywood Hogan
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(Original post by *Stefan*)
I'm sorry but what exactly are you trying to prove with all these things (which I barely read to be honest)?

Why do you really care if Durham is better -or worse- than KCL, when you're at UCL?

Something tells me that you're not really at UCL but, rather, at KCL.

Also, doesn't the "Oxbridge rejects" contradict your argument? Is a university is full of "Oxbridge rejects", that would make it the third best university after Oxbridge (not saying that it is, I find it childish to make such irrefutable assumptions).
I am not at KCL, do not make unfounded comments like that again. Anyone can be an Oxbridge reject, even those who never got an interview. It is hardly worth anything as a label.

I have been to Holborn many times, and have had a good look at KCL many times. The strong performances in the various World rankings place it in a very strong position to be seen as stronger than Durham, so far as the criteria that has been used to compare them.

Either way, UCL is better than both, and quite a bit better.
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_Fergo
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(Original post by Hollywood Hogan)
I am not at KCL, do not make unfounded comments like that again. Anyone can be an Oxbridge reject, even those who never got an interview. It is hardly worth anything as a label.

I have been to Holborn many times, and have had a good look at KCL many times. The strong performances in the various World rankings place it in a very strong position to be seen as stronger than Durham, so far as the criteria that has been used to compare them.
Yeah, with one criterion, accounting for over 40%(!), being "academics are asked to identify the institutions where they believe the best work is currently taking place within their field of expertise."

Please... if you actually rely on that to form such a firm opinion, then I'm sorry, but it's not worth discussing.

By the way, the international rankings focus (despite the ridiculous methodologies) on research, obviously aimed at postgraduate courses and PHDs.

The domestic ones are aimed towards undergraduate study, and Durham seems to be much higher. Does that mean that Durham is clearly better than KCL in all accounts for undergraduate studies?

Lastly, there is a difference between a uni getting a couple rejects and a uni holding that -idiotic if you ask me- reputation. Most unis would only dream of being able to absorb the so called "Oxbridge rejects", for obvious reasons.


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Hollywood Hogan
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(Original post by *Stefan*)
Yeah, with one criterion, accounting for over 40%(!), being "academics are asked to identify the institutions where they believe the best work is currently taking place within their field of expertise."

Please... if you actually rely on that to form such a firm opinion, then I'm sorry, but it's not worth discussing.

By the way, the international rankings focus (despite the ridiculous methodologies) on research, obviously aimed at postgraduate courses and PHDs.

The domestic ones are aimed towards undergraduate study, and Durham seems to be much higher. Does that mean that Durham is clearly better than KCL in all accounts for undergraduate studies?

Lastly, there is a difference between a uni getting a couple rejects and a uni holding that -idiotic if you ask me- reputation. Most unis would only dream of being able to absorb the so called "Oxbridge rejects", for obvious reasons.


UCL isn't an Oxbridge reject university, it is far better than that. It is more of a rival to Oxbridge.
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_Fergo
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(Original post by Hollywood Hogan)
UCL isn't an Oxbridge reject university, it is far better than that. It is more of a rival to Oxbridge.
Oh you'd be surpised how many times I've heard UCL being an "Oxbridge rejects" uni.

But that is off-topic? What does UCL have to do with this?

I really don't understand the point of this thread? Do you want to bash Durham and hope that people will agree or what?
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Hollywood Hogan
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(Original post by *Stefan*)
Oh you'd be surpised how many times I've heard UCL being an "Oxbridge rejects" uni.

But that is off-topic? What does UCL have to do with this?

I really don't understand the point of this thread? Do you want to bash Durham and hope that people will agree or what?
The comparison between KCL and Durham is an interesting one. Both very different in every sense, and with contrasting global reputations.
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Wahrheit
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If you want to find out how prestigious universities are, go on any league table and click the button which orders them by average applicant UCAS tariff points at entry. Employers, and people generally, don't care about its research or teaching, they just want evidence that you're good, and if you were good when you got accepted and you came out of it with at least a 2.1, you'll be good when you left.
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_Fergo
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(Original post by Hollywood Hogan)
The comparison between KCL and Durham is an interesting one. Both very different in every sense, and with contrasting global reputations.
It may be, but not when you're dead set that KCL is much better than Durham. That's grounds for a fight, not a discussion!
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