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    If anyone is so ignorant to think that any armed forced would let pictures be taken of anyone being "tortured" is a bit of a bizarre stretch. It looks more like anti-war propagandists at work. And that goes for both sides of the pond.

    The one dead giveaway on the american photos was when they "said" they interviewed the army reservist and he told them they never heard of the geneva convention rules. That is a blatant lie. One of the first things taught in all the US armed forces is the rules of engagement and prisoner treatment.

    All this is just BS to make people talk about something other than IEDs every day.
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    (Original post by Tednol)
    A reflection upon the perpetrators, who are humans, who are capable commit sub-human actions regardless of anything else. So you aren't criticising the US or the UK army? Or just the humans that make them up?
    I'm criticising the fact that this could be allowed to happen (if it indeed is).
    That would be a grave fault of the UK/US armies.
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    (Original post by FoxNewsRocks)
    If anyone is so ignorant to think that any armed forced would let pictures be taken of anyone being "tortured" is a bit of a bizarre stretch. It looks more like anti-war propagandists at work. And that goes for both sides of the pond.

    The one dead giveaway on the american photos was when they "said" they interviewed the army reservist and he told them they never heard of the geneva convention rules. That is a blatant lie. One of the first things taught in all the US armed forces is the rules of engagement and prisoner treatment.

    All this is just BS to make people talk about something other than IEDs every day.
    You know about as much as we do, so shut up.

    We'll just have to wait and see whether these pictures are authentic.
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    He got a point about the Geneva convention thing so don't tell him to shut up. I can't imagine soldiers would be sent to somewhere like Iraq qithout being told about the convention. Also, even if he was never taught it, he must have heard of it before just growing up. He's lying!
    Finally, i made this point in anothre post but the post seems to have gone missing. The Yank pictures look amareurish and off the cuff, by some bozo with a polaroid taking sovanier photos. The British pics are VERY high quality. They are perfectly choreographed so as not to show the soldier's nob when taking a leak on that person. They are perfectly focused, and very emotive. They look like they were taken in a studio, don't you think. Finally, who goes and buys a camera for personal sovenier photos with a black and white photo?
    I'm not saying the photos are fake, but the more i think about it, the dodgier and dogier they look to me.
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    Apparently the guns and the trucks in the photo weren't issued to that regiment. Also the hats are all wrong. I think that it's probably a fake. Not all soldiers are stupid though, my dad was in the army. He was in the royal engineers andn he got to blow up bridges. I doubt that he has the reading and writing capabilities of an 11 year old because he has a PhD.
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    People may have a point about the rifle, but not the hat, i've seen British soldiers wearing floppy hats, and one may have brought his own aht with him. Also, the common perception of the thick squaddie comes from the low level of academic qualifications required to be a soldier, but the vast majoity, although not having much in the way of academic qualificaitons are very intelligent
    You can't be a soldier if you're thick, it requires a lot of common sense and practicality. It calls for many qualites other than academics. For example, to be a marine, you don't need any academic qualitfications at all, but it's still an extremely demanding job, you need to reach the top 8% of fitness for all people in the country to finish the training, and the overwhelming majority of office workers wouldn't come close to meeting the physical and professional standards required to be a british soldier, so lay off them! :mad:
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    Not one army in this world is the best and above question . Most newspapers around the world are persuing the policy of investigative reporting nowadays - creating yellow journalism as a by product . If somebody wants to destrot the brit army's reputation , he's working the daily mirror then .if it was an afgan i wudn't mind . most of the iraqi people are acting because of patriotism . George W.Bush has been a warmonger since 1971 . I find myself gaping to think that even now some Americans actually support him .if it was someone from Iraq who wanted to destroy the image of the british army , why did daily mirror even publish those unproved photos ? If that is the case , I have to conclude that there is the presence of traitors right inside the U.K while everybody is enthusiastic about the maintenance of forces inside iraq .
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    Furthermoe, has anybody noticed that the majority of British people seem to be rallying around our boys and girls, whereas we all like to give the yanks a good ****ging about their photos? This sort of patriotism, plus yank bashing is really good fun
    Of course, there are those, who are not just against the war (which is fine) but are also against our boys and girls (which is not fine), calling them imbeciles and the like. These are the sort of idiots who probably idolise that scum bag weazel George Galloway.
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    (Original post by Bigcnee)
    You know about as much as we do, so shut up.

    We'll just have to wait and see whether these pictures are authentic.

    Shut up? This is a debate forum is it not?
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    (Original post by FoxNewsRocks)
    Shut up? This is a debate forum is it not?
    Yea...
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    even i am a bit skeptical about those pictures now after hearing whats been said. especially the "iraqi" shirt, looks a bit dodgy.
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    (Original post by Bigcnee)
    Yea...
    Hey, i meant you, when i was on about George Galloway supporters, and is that picture on your thing actually of you?
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    (Original post by Fly By)
    even i am a bit skeptical about those pictures now after hearing whats been said. especially the "iraqi" shirt, looks a bit dodgy.
    Not to mention the fact this Iraqi victim, caught during the height of summer (supposedly) and during a war is neither sweaty or dirty. The soliders boots are far too clean. He's tucked his trousers into his boots instead of using the elastic troops are given for the purpose of keeping sand out of boots. The webbing is old fashioned. The 'Iraqi' is bloodless. The photos, which are thought to have been taken with a digital camera are in black and white. This is bizarre, as it would have taken a conscious effort to turn the camera to black and white mode. Why lose detail, what were they trying to hide?

    Also, a scientist checked the absorbancy of a similar material to the one covering the face of the 'Iraqi'. The urine stain, which shows in all the photos, didn't show in lab tests. The material is not absorbant enough. The gun doesn't have a sling.

    The list goes on and on. If they are proved to be fakes, I think the Mirror's editor should be put up against treason charges.
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    (Original post by Bigcnee)
    I'm criticising the fact that this could be allowed to happen (if it indeed is).
    That would be a grave fault of the UK/US armies.
    Of the armies? Or of rogue elements within them?
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    " Rumsfiled did not describe the photos , but US military officials told NBC news that the unreleased photos showed US soldiers severely beating an Iraqi prisoner nearly to death , having sex with a female Iraqi prisoner and " acting inappropriately with a dead body ." The officials said there was also a videotape taken by a US personnel , showing Iraqi guards raping young boys .


    I found myself pondering about the civilised acts of " apology " and masterful acts by " only a few " within the army to appear " tough " .

    One picture showed 4/5 US soldiers looking over 3 Iraqis having sex with each other . That somewhat gives an indication of a planned system . One US soldier opened his mouth and told the press that the beaters planfully beat the victims to gain respect from prisoners . I wonder , how would anyone expect to be respected after randomly picking up civillians ? What the hell is going to happen after these people apologise ? that's that ? are the accused US soldiers also going to be tortured like that too ? If not , exactly how are they going to " repair " the damage , as told by Mr.US general in a civilised Gucchi coat ( satirical undertone ) ???? Are they going to those families or to the woman and stuff some more US dollars in their mouth and " apologise " ? I'm not a Brit / English . I never hated either the Brits or Americans in general . When my country fought for freedom in 1971 , our oppressor sent his trained armies to start " culling " human beings at midnight and have the newspapers produce articles on " how the heroic army has stopped the evilish rebellion " !? Those members of the Pakistani army raped and murdered at least 2000 women who age ranged from 08-55 . More than 10,000 people moved accross the borders to escape death to India . And the dictator general of Pakistan told the UN that he needed foreign aid to stop the insurgence . Only the " dirty " communists of Russia seemed to understand the situation and voting against helping Pakistan . Mr.George W.Bush 9 ( Junior ) was the US representative in the UN , he thought it would be nice to send a military fleet to help the oppressor . Funny . I guess it's a craze or a fashion , it's like " you got the gun ? you got everything " in a war-devastated country . People wid power doesn't give a f*ck about whose family getting broken and whose wife getting raped where unelss it's something with a blood-relation to them ! Everybody thought it would be " humiliating " for Saddam Hussain to be judged in a public trial as he was the president of a country . Is it also going to be " humiliating " for the best , trained soldiers of savagery to be executed publicly , in the U.S ? I guess so , hahaha .


    http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exer...C3690CF59F.htm ------- referring to the answer given by the national guard , my wild guess is that not even a donkey would actually respect anyone who kidnapped them from the streets , asked them stupid questions , and asked them to act like they are bootlickers of the invading army ( not the coalition force lol ) .







    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4855930/
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    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4925464/


    on the last two paragraphs , before the factfile , it seems that Mr.Rumsfiled has been telling lies like a drunk .



    http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0503/dailyUpdate.html


    ----columnist Joe Babbin must have been financed out of drug money to finance his university journalism education . John Kerry served in the Vietnam war and he knows preddy much more than illeterate journalist using his pens to mock him . There were rapings in vietnam too . When John Kerry said that war crimes was a norm for the Americans , not an exception , he used symbolism as his aid .This means that the concluding fact is nothing has been done to castigate the minions of the best army of the world . If some journalists can't understand why would a war veteran and a professional would throw away his achieved medals in muddy ground , it's best for them to get butt-raped in prison and the same wid his own wife and underage children , yeah , then write about it , hehe , coward .
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    " If they are proved to be fakes, I think the Mirror's editor should be put up against treason charges. " - which world do you live in ? Donald Rumsfield even apologised and the officials mentioned about women abuse in Abu-Gharib . I am not sure but I read it somewhere about the american army in dire need of Afganistani prostitutes - funny enough . Even if all the pictures are fake , there's one video that Donald Rumsfield has been apologised of . These were not separate incidents . Separate incidents don't work with members of two different armies . They were separate incidents . Groups of people consisting of 20 conducted the separate incidents . These were totally separate incidents and saying sorry a lot of times can really explain things a lot .These are all stupid separate incidents and Mr.Bush castigated Donald Rumsfield in his office for not letting him know about this so that he could cover the mess quickly (!) . All these are totally separate incidents . For no reason at all , groups of prisoners rebel against prison guards ( civillians , bloody Iraqi civillians with " F*ck Iraq " written in the border airbase as their fate on their forehead ) .
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    (Original post by nayeem18)
    " If they are proved to be fakes, I think the Mirror's editor should be put up against treason charges. " - which world do you live in ? Donald Rumsfield even apologised and the officials mentioned about women abuse in Abu-Gharib . I am not sure but I read it somewhere about the american army in dire need of Afganistani prostitutes - funny enough . Even if all the pictures are fake , there's one video that Donald Rumsfield has been apologised of . These were not separate incidents . Separate incidents don't work with members of two different armies . They were separate incidents . Groups of people consisting of 20 conducted the separate incidents . These were totally separate incidents and saying sorry a lot of times can really explain things a lot .These are all stupid separate incidents and Mr.Bush castigated Donald Rumsfield in his office for not letting him know about this so that he could cover the mess quickly (!) . All these are totally separate incidents . For no reason at all , groups of prisoners rebel against prison guards ( civillians , bloody Iraqi civillians with " F*ck Iraq " written in the border airbase as their fate on their forehead ) .
    The pictures published in the Mirror have nothing to do with the torture going on in Abu-Gharib. Yet, it was about these incidents, Rumsfeld and Bush apologised. They did not say anything about the incidents alleged by the Mirror (anyway those involve British - not American - troops). There's no link - or at least no evidence for such a link - between the events in Abu Gharib and the alleged abuse by British troops.
    The allegations brought forward by the Mirror are unproven, at least the Mirror is not willing to produce conclusive evidence.
    The allegations involving US troops in Abu Gharib however ARE proven and accepted by the US government.

    The two sets of pictures are not to be confused.
 
 
 
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