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    As said earlier in this post, hate IS a harsh word.

    I dislike their morals and principles that they hold (i.e the country)

    However I do not dislike Americans as a race/people.
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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    Are you suggesting that communism = authoritarianism? Because communism has a distrinct meaning, which you apparently do not know.
    So you are suggesting that Iraq who had a similar way of running the economy to China was worthy of being invaded? And yes for communism to be true communism it has to be totalitarian since it would be the only way of ensuring everyone was equal.
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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    For starters, China is no longer communist. Secondly, China's economic growth started in the early '80s, while we didn't actively trade with China until the mid-90s. Lastly, why should we care that we are losing manufacturing jobs when the service jobs that replace provide higher average wages? I'll take a banker over a factory worker any day of the week.
    Eh, you're right, they're not Communist. Sorry, it's just habit to call them that, a bad habit at that, probably stems from the American notion that Communist = Totalitarian and Totalitarian = Communist...

    You're right, their economic growth didn't start till the 1980s (though of course, after Mao anything would have constituted growth,) but this rapid, double digit production growth that the last few years has seen didn't start until after American trade with China. I'm not a big protectionist either, but it seems contradictory to me to be critical of an article seemingly prasing of the Chinese authoritarian model and its expansion, like, if I'm not mistaken, you were, when America is one of the main reasons why it has become so successful and clearly benefits from having more countries like China, what with their human capital and their ability to centrally comman this resource, around.
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    (Original post by dilinator)
    As said earlier in this post, hate IS a harsh word.

    I dislike their morals and principles that they hold (i.e the country)

    However I do not dislike Americans as a race/people.
    How could you not hate the American people when you hate everything they stand for (their morals and principles)?
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    (Original post by Alexdel)
    So you are suggesting that Iraq who had a similar way of running the economy to China was worthy of being invaded? And yes for communism to be true communism it has to be totalitarian since it would be the only way of ensuring everyone was equal.
    China stopped ensuring that everyone was equal 20 years ago.
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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    How could you not hate the American people when you hate everything they stand for (their morals and principles)?
    Well, he said that hate was a strong word - and accordingly didn't use it. He said he disliked American morals/principles but American as people. I believe that is a logical statement.
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    (Original post by NMiller5a)
    Well, he said that hate was a strong word - and accordingly didn't use it. He said he disliked American morals/principles but American as people. I believe that is a logical statement.
    How is it logical? Can I hate everything about you without hating you?
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    (Original post by Alexdel)
    So you are suggesting that Iraq who had a similar way of running the economy to China was worthy of being invaded? And yes for communism to be true communism it has to be totalitarian since it would be the only way of ensuring everyone was equal.
    Well, in theory, pure communism is much closer to anarchy than totalitarianism... Communism is supposedly only totalitarian when it's in the "transition" stage.
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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    China stopped ensuring that everyone was equal 20 years ago.
    Its all a theory sunshine...in practice nothing its like its supposed to be just like like the US pretending to be a democracy.
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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    How is it logical? Can I hate everything about you without hating you?
    No, but I can dislike your beliefs while not disliking you as a person... that's what he said. You may dislike a person's political beliefs and while still liking that person for other reasons.
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    (Original post by NMiller5a)
    No, but I can dislike your beliefs while not disliking you as a person... that's what he said. You may dislike a person's political beliefs and while still liking that person for other reasons.
    A person's morals and principles are much more than just their political beliefs.
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    (Original post by Alexdel)
    Its all a theory sunshine...in practice nothing its like its supposed to be just like like the US pretending to be a democracy.
    In all honest I despise George Bush, but how are the UK or Canada any more democratic? Labour won barely more than a third of the vote yet commands an overwhelming control over Parliament, and the NDP received over 20% of the vote yet has something like 14 seats...
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    (Original post by NMiller5a)
    Well, in theory, pure communism is much closer to anarchy than totalitarianism... Communism is supposedly only totalitarian when it's in the "transition" stage.
    hmm...well communism stems mainly from Marx ideas and from them you can deduce a main role of a government which helps establish proletariat. His model could never have worked with no means of achieving it in the first place. I mean how do you ensure equality for all with anarchy.
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    (Original post by NMiller5a)
    In all honest I despise George Bush, but how are the UK or Canada any more democratic? Labour won barely more than a third of the vote yet commands an overwhelming control over Parliament, and the NDP received over 20% of the vote yet has something like 14 seats...
    I agree....in fact I have written long essays on the subject and the more I wrote the more I convinced myself that unless you have a direct 100% partecipation it is not democracy...obviously in the 21st century it is not practical so we have to settle for the next best thing...
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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    A person's morals and principles are much more than just their political beliefs.
    Just as hate is much more than dislike.
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    (Original post by Alexdel)
    I agree....in fact I have written long essays on the subject and the more I wrote the more I convinced myself that unless you have a direct 100% partecipation it is not democracy...obviously in the 21st century it is not practical so we have to settle for the next best thing...
    Ah, you think forcing people to vote is democratic while having people choose not to vote is not?
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    (Original post by Alexdel)
    hmm...well communism stems mainly from Marx ideas and from them you can deduce a main role of a government which helps establish proletariat. His model could never have worked with no means of achieving it in the first place. I mean how do you ensure equality for all with anarchy.
    Well, that's what I said, communism is totalitarian thereoretically only during the "transition" state towards pure communism. Obviously a very long transition process has to go into ingraining people with a sense of equality so that capitalistic tendencies are thoroughly eradicated, and when the time comes that they have finally been so, then the government ceases to exist because there is no reason for it. It's anarchy in the sense of it being government-less, but since it assumes that people will voluntarially follow certain guidelines as intrinsic laws of life that can never be violated it really isn't pure anarachy, as there are still laws governing behaviour.
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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    Ah, you think forcing people to vote is democratic while having people choose not to vote is not?
    Do you actually read and use your brain to process what is being looked at by your eyes....read carefully I shall explain really really slowly...here it goes....democracy...in my opinion...cannot be true democracy....unless....it....is. ...a 100% participation...by all in the passing of all laws...this...is....an ...evaluation of democray....not....of....what ....i believe....should.....be done.....and....when i ....said....we...settle...for... it...as next....best thing....i mean we...as....a.....society....

    Kapish? I mean i know the damage of the media has been extensive but this is just hopeless.
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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    Ah, you think forcing people to vote is democratic while having people choose not to vote is not?
    I like that. Kind of like forcing republics upon people and ensuring that they don't tip into theocracies is undemocratic.
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    (Original post by Alexdel)
    Do you actually read and use your brain to process what is being looked at by your eyes....read carefully I shall explain really really slowly...here it goes....democracy...in my opinion...cannot be true democracy....unless....it....is. ...a 100% participation...by all in the passing of all laws...this...is....an ...evaluation of democray....not....of....what ....i believe....should.....be done.....and....when i ....said....we...settle...for... it...as next....best thing....i mean we...as....a.....society....

    Kapish? I mean i know the damage of the media has been extensive but this is just hopeless.
    Ah, the media, the strangest political particpatory institution ever devised. In some ways it directs public opinion indepedent of government control, in others it is self-censored to not disagree too openly to governmental policy. I don't know where to begin.
 
 
 
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