Do you hate Americans?

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naivesincerity
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#2741
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#2741
(Original post by psychic_satori)
Oh, that's much easier. Calling yourself socialist to an American is like saying "I'm a lazy follower who relies on the government to keep my life going." To most of us, it's pathetic and childish. No offense.
Well what's the definition of socialism? Believing in more equality of wealth/oppurtunity, which is probably what most people really mean when they use the term, even if that's unrealistic in itself, doesn't mean you have to believe in an over-expanded benefits system which allows people to be lazy.
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psychic_satori
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#2742
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#2742
(Original post by naivesincerity)
Well that has to be a good thing. That's something we should have more of over here imo.
Well, that's probably the result of socialism, because it causes people to look at the government as their friend and master.
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naivesincerity
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#2743
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#2743
(Original post by psychic_satori)
Well, that's probably the result of socialism, because it causes people to look at the government as their friend and master.
I don't know...we're certainly not socialist in comparison to France, and they're probably more anti-authority than we are.
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psychic_satori
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#2744
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#2744
(Original post by naivesincerity)
Well what's the definition of socialism? Believing in more equality of wealth/oppurtunity, which is probably what most people really mean when they use the term, even if that's unrealistic in itself, doesn't mean you have to believe in an over-expanded benefits system which allows people to be lazy.
Actually, if you're talking about modern socialist theory, then it is "the pursuit of the goal of creating a democratic society that would form the backbone of an ideal welfare state." If you're talking about classical socialism, then it's "that a society should exist in which popular collectives control the means of power, and therefore the means of production."

You can never have equality (or even semi-equality) of both wealth and opportunity, as putting ramifications on one immediately influences the other. The problem that Americans see with socialism is that it puts a much greater emphasis on creating an equality of means, which destroys the idea of equal opportunity. Striving for equal opportunity is what Americans can appreciate, but socialism is too class-obsessed to ever allow for equal opportunity.
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psychic_satori
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#2745
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#2745
(Original post by naivesincerity)
I don't know...we're certainly not socialist in comparison to France, and they're probably more anti-authority than we are.
Well, France is full of French people, who happened to acquire a taste for occasionally beheading members of the ruling class.
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Spig
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#2746
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#2746
(Original post by Made in the USA)
I don't think liking another culture necessarily means you feel 'cultureless'.

That's not what i meant.what i meant that if a country has a less well defined culture, they may be more appreciative of a more defined culture, if that makes sense.

I'm sure there are some cultures you like, but that doesn't make your culture any less rich.
Defining a common set of American traditions, customs, and behavior is difficult in such a large country that doesn't have a homogeneous population. We also have many different subcultures in the US. Still there is quite a bit that most Americans have in common. We believe in individualism, free-markets, and self-sufficiency.

yeah, i don't really agree with a lot of that stuff.no offence, but i think it's pretty disgusting that the richest country in the world has no freehealth care system for the poor...

We believe that each individual acting in his or her best interests is not just good for the individual, but for the whole society. Americans are very hostile toward socialism. One thing that always surprises me is when I meet Europeans that admit to being socialists. Here, politicians insult one another by calling each other socialists. We are also very patriotic, but we understand the differences between our patriotism and the dangerous nationalism we saw in Europe not too long ago.
i think lots of English people like to see themselves as a bit leftwing.they probably wouldn't use the term socialist though.you probably wouldn't catch a German or French refering to themselves openly as a socialist!we obviously see things differently,as i feel American patriotism appears to border on the nationalistic....i think English people are similar in this way.
One thing i like about the Americans is their conservatism...we need more of that!
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Spig
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#2747
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#2747
yeah i messed that post up a bit.some of the stuff in the quote thing is stuff i'm saying......oh well
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Made in the USA
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#2748
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#2748
(Original post by Spig)
i think lots of English people like to see themselves as a bit leftwing.they probably wouldn't use the term socialist though.you probably wouldn't catch a German or French refering to themselves openly as a socialist!we obviously see things differently,as i feel American patriotism appears to border on the nationalistic....i think English people are similar in this way.
One thing i like about the Americans is their conservatism...we need more of that!
I've met some, but not many self-proclaimed socialists, but none of them have been Americans. American patriotism is not the same as nationalism and I think people from other countries sometimes don't see the nuances that differentiate it from nationalism. If you can't recognise the distinction, I can understand how it can seem the same as nationalism, which can be very frightening and rightly so.

In the US, you will see flags proudly displayed, hear the anthem at a variety of different events, the "pledge of allegiance" every morning at schools, and politicians talking about how this is "the greatest nation on earth". For some reason foreigners find this nauseating and it's the hardest part of American culture to deal with. What's ironic is, as psychic mentioned in a previous post, there is widespread dislike for government and its institutions. We see "America" as something that is completely different/separate from the government and its institutions. So, in a nutshell, we love our country, but we hate our government. We love the economic system (sure there are people like Michael Moore on the lunatic fringe that hate this, but they are an extremely small vocal minority), the spirit of entrepreneurship, the principles in the constitution and the declaration of independence.

With nationalism, people love EVERYTHING about their nation. They love their history,political, culture, economic system, the government institutions, ect. So, it is bad taste to engage in any kind of flag waving in other countries because it is equated with the nationalism that has been so harmful over the past several hundred years.

Nationalism and American patriotism are completely different animals.
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Made in the USA
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#2749
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#2749
(Original post by Spig)
yeah i messed that post up a bit.some of the stuff in the quote thing is stuff i'm saying......oh well
Can you go back and edit the post? Saying there isn't a freehealth care system for the poor isn't true. We have medicare. If you are going to misquote me, at least type something that is factually correct.
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Made in the USA
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#2750
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#2750
(Original post by psychic_satori)
Socialism contradicts individualism, free markets, and self-sufficiency. It also creates a larger role for the government in daily life. I think one thing MitUSA left off his list, which is very important, is that Americans hate government, regardless of the party in power. Of course, this is what our founders wanted, as it assures that the government is kept on its toes, so they obviously were successful in instilling us with a healthy dose of anti-authoritarianism.
This mistrust of government is what I think drove our founders to grant us the right to bear arms. If the government ever abuses its power and imposes some sort of dictatorship on us, we can take to the streets with our guns and fight the government off.
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Spig
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#2751
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#2751
(Original post by Made in the USA)
Can you go back and edit the post? Saying there isn't a freehealth care system for the poor isn't true. We have medicare. If you are going to misquote me, at least type something that is factually correct.
whoa!steady on there.i didn't mean to misquote you.i just typed in the wrong bit.anyway....i had heard abt that medicare thing but wasn't sure what it was.i thought it was only for the poor people who were,i dunno,abt to drop dead or something.i think there should be a free healthcare system for all..but this doesn't always translate too well into reality.i think it's the government's duty to provide free healthcare to everyone, so i guess i do believe in a more collectivistic approach.mind you i do think our gov't gives out too much in the way of general benefits.

i have to say now that your last post cracked me up.i don't know if it was tongue in cheek...but i don't think it was.i was going to say earlier that many people believe the Americans are really trigger happy, but i didn't because i thought it'd offend.now i definately think it's true.i honestly can't imagine any other nationality saying that in times of crisis the best idea would be to 'take to the streets with our guns.?why do Americans answer everything with a round of ammunition???
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Bismarck
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#2752
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#2752
(Original post by Spig)
i honestly can't imagine any other nationality saying that in times of crisis the best idea would be to 'take to the streets with our guns.?
Ye sons of France, awake to glory,
Hark, hark, what myriads bid you rise:
Your children, wives and grandsires aging,
See their tears and hear their cries,
See their tears and hear their cries!
Shall hateful tyrants mischeif breeding
With hireling Hosts, a ruffian band
Affright and desolate the land,
While peace and liberty lie bleeding?

CHORUS
To arms, to arms, ye brave!
ThMarch on! march on!
All hearts resolved on victory or death.

O sacred love of Francy, undying,
ThThy defenders, death defying,
Fight with Freedom at their side.
Soon they sons shall be victorious
When the banner high is raised;
And they dying enemies, amazed,
Shall behold they triumph, great and glorious.

CHORUS

--------------------------------------

Arise ye workers [starvelings] from your slumbers
Arise ye prisoners of want
For reason in revolt now thunders
And at last ends the age of cant.
Away with all your superstitions
Servile masses arise, arise
We'll change henceforth [forthwith] the old tradition [conditions]
And spurn the dust to win the prize.

So comrades, come rally
And the last fight let us face
The Internationale unites the human race.
So comrades, come rally
And the last fight let us face
The Internationale unites the human race.

No more deluded by reaction
On tyrants only we'll make war
The soldiers too will take strike action
They'll break ranks and fight no more
And if those cannibals keep trying
To sacrifice us to their pride
They soon shall hear the bullets flying
We'll shoot the generals on our own side.

(Chorus)

No saviour from on high delivers
No faith have we in prince or peer
Our own right hand the chains must shiver
Chains of hatred, greed and fear
E'er the thieves will out with their booty [give up their booty]
And give to all a happier lot.
Each [those] at the forge must do their duty
And we'll strike while the iron is hot.

(chorus)
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Spig
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#2753
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#2753
(Original post by Bismarck)
Ye sons of France, awake to glory,
Hark, hark, what myriads bid you rise:
Your children, wives and grandsires aging,
See their tears and hear their cries,
See their tears and hear their cries!
Shall hateful tyrants mischeif breeding
With hireling Hosts, a ruffian band
Affright and desolate the land,
While peace and liberty lie bleeding?

CHORUS
To arms, to arms, ye brave!
ThMarch on! march on!
All hearts resolved on victory or death.

O sacred love of Francy, undying,
ThThy defenders, death defying,
Fight with Freedom at their side.
Soon they sons shall be victorious
When the banner high is raised;
And they dying enemies, amazed,
Shall behold they triumph, great and glorious.

CHORUS

--------------------------------------

Arise ye workers [starvelings] from your slumbers
Arise ye prisoners of want
For reason in revolt now thunders
And at last ends the age of cant.
Away with all your superstitions
Servile masses arise, arise
We'll change henceforth [forthwith] the old tradition [conditions]
And spurn the dust to win the prize.

So comrades, come rally
And the last fight let us face
The Internationale unites the human race.
So comrades, come rally
And the last fight let us face
The Internationale unites the human race.

No more deluded by reaction
On tyrants only we'll make war
The soldiers too will take strike action
They'll break ranks and fight no more
And if those cannibals keep trying
To sacrifice us to their pride
They soon shall hear the bullets flying
We'll shoot the generals on our own side.

(Chorus)

No saviour from on high delivers
No faith have we in prince or peer
Our own right hand the chains must shiver
Chains of hatred, greed and fear
E'er the thieves will out with their booty [give up their booty]
And give to all a happier lot.
Each [those] at the forge must do their duty
And we'll strike while the iron is hot.

(chorus)

:rolleyes: oh ha de ha ha.you actually looked that up.unless you knew it off by heart.i take your point.mind you they really were provoked.i was really referring to the 'gun culture'(hate that phrase) in America.i may be wrong (i often) am but there seems to be an erm flippancy abt violence.it was just the way Made in the USA said their guns and get down to business.it just made me laugh that's all.....
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Shamen
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#2754
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#2754
Ya. Dey fat.
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Bismarck
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#2755
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#2755
(Original post by Spig)
:rolleyes: oh ha de ha ha.you actually looked that up.unless you knew it off by heart.i take your point.mind you they really were provoked.i was really referring to the 'gun culture'(hate that phrase) in America.i may be wrong (i often) am but there seems to be an erm flippancy abt violence.it was just the way Made in the USA said their guns and get down to business.it just made me laugh that's all.....
It doesn't take a genius to know that France and the Soviet Union have/had pretty bloody anthems. There are plenty more where those came from.

Anyway, you said:

i honestly can't imagine any other nationality saying that in times of crisis the best idea would be to 'take to the streets with our guns.?
Clearly other nationalities are saying those things if those things are part of their national anthems.
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Made in the USA
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#2756
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#2756
(Original post by Spig)
whoa!steady on there.i didn't mean to misquote you.i just typed in the wrong bit.anyway....i had heard abt that medicare thing but wasn't sure what it was.i thought it was only for the poor people who were,i dunno,abt to drop dead or something.i think there should be a free healthcare system for all..but this doesn't always translate too well into reality.i think it's the government's duty to provide free healthcare to everyone, so i guess i do believe in a more collectivistic approach.mind you i do think our gov't gives out too much in the way of general benefits.
I'm a bit flustered because this topic has been beaten to death. Your healthcare isn't free. You pay for it with your tax money. We pay for ours too. We pay our insurance companies, which pay for our care. If you are too poor to afford health care, then you can get medicare. http://www.medicare.gov/

(Original post by Spig)
i have to say now that your last post cracked me up.i don't know if it was tongue in cheek...but i don't think it was.i was going to say earlier that many people believe the Americans are really trigger happy, but i didn't because i thought it'd offend.now i definately think it's true.i honestly can't imagine any other nationality saying that in times of crisis the best idea would be to 'take to the streets with our guns.?why do Americans answer everything with a round of ammunition???
You have changed your mind about all Americans based on one post from me? Wow, I feel so influential :-)

It was somewhat tongue and cheek. I know how confounded you all are by our gun culture, so I like to stir up the hornet's nest every now and then by saying stuff like that. That said, there is a lot of truth to what I wrote in my post. When the country was founded, I believe that the right to bear arms was given to guarantee that the USA would never become a police state. There was a basic mistrust of government when the country was founded and there still is to this day.
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flyboy123
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#2757
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#2757
I just saw this thread....what a racist poll. Surely if you did this poll with other nationalities for example Pakistanies it would instantly get blocked for being racist.

Most americans are really friendly and generous people. They always welcome you and make you feel at home (well from all the times ive been there). i know some of thier accents are annoying but they cant help it and surely there are far worse people in the world.
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NDGAARONDI
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#2758
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#2758
I don't hate Americans. Seen some nice Americans in my Halls. :p:
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Sam2k
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#2759
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#2759
(Original post by flyboy123)
I just saw this thread....what a racist poll. Surely if you did this poll with other nationalities for example Pakistanies it would instantly get blocked for being racist.

Most americans are really friendly and generous people. They always welcome you and make you feel at home (well from all the times ive been there). i know some of thier accents are annoying but they cant help it and surely there are far worse people in the world.
The poll is not comparing races therefore it cannot be racist. :rolleyes:
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Spig
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#2760
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#2760
(Original post by flyboy123)
I just saw this thread....what a racist poll. Surely if you did this poll with other nationalities for example Pakistanies it would instantly get blocked for being racist.

Most americans are really friendly and generous people. They always welcome you and make you feel at home (well from all the times ive been there). i know some of thier accents are annoying but they cant help it and surely there are far worse people in the world.
erm....most people including myself voted no.also you can't say it's racist (assuming this is because we all are making generalisations) and then make sweeping generalisations abt how friendly they all are.ps. who are these worse people in the world??other races??
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