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    (Original post by Made in the USA)
    One thing that always surprises me is when I meet Europeans that admit to being socialists. .
    Well, why?
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    (Original post by naivesincerity)
    Well, why?
    Socialism contradicts individualism, free markets, and self-sufficiency. It also creates a larger role for the government in daily life. I think one thing MitUSA left off his list, which is very important, is that Americans hate government, regardless of the party in power. Of course, this is what our founders wanted, as it assures that the government is kept on its toes, so they obviously were successful in instilling us with a healthy dose of anti-authoritarianism.
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    (Original post by psychic_satori)
    Socialism contradicts individualism, free markets, and self-sufficiency. It also creates a larger role for the government in daily life. .
    Sorry, i should have been clearer-i meant why does it surprise him that Europeans admit to being socialist....not why is America anti-socialism
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    (Original post by psychic_satori)
    Of course, this is what our founders wanted, as it assures that the government is kept on its toes, so they obviously were successful in instilling us with a healthy dose of anti-authoritarianism.
    Well that has to be a good thing. That's something we should have more of over here imo.
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    (Original post by naivesincerity)
    Sorry, i should have been clearer-i meant why does it surprise him that Europeans admit to being socialist....not why is America anti-socialism
    Oh, that's much easier. Calling yourself socialist to an American is like saying "I'm a lazy follower who relies on the government to keep my life going." To most of us, it's pathetic and childish. No offense.
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    (Original post by psychic_satori)
    Oh, that's much easier. Calling yourself socialist to an American is like saying "I'm a lazy follower who relies on the government to keep my life going." To most of us, it's pathetic and childish. No offense.
    Well what's the definition of socialism? Believing in more equality of wealth/oppurtunity, which is probably what most people really mean when they use the term, even if that's unrealistic in itself, doesn't mean you have to believe in an over-expanded benefits system which allows people to be lazy.
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    (Original post by naivesincerity)
    Well that has to be a good thing. That's something we should have more of over here imo.
    Well, that's probably the result of socialism, because it causes people to look at the government as their friend and master.
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    (Original post by psychic_satori)
    Well, that's probably the result of socialism, because it causes people to look at the government as their friend and master.
    I don't know...we're certainly not socialist in comparison to France, and they're probably more anti-authority than we are.
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    (Original post by naivesincerity)
    Well what's the definition of socialism? Believing in more equality of wealth/oppurtunity, which is probably what most people really mean when they use the term, even if that's unrealistic in itself, doesn't mean you have to believe in an over-expanded benefits system which allows people to be lazy.
    Actually, if you're talking about modern socialist theory, then it is "the pursuit of the goal of creating a democratic society that would form the backbone of an ideal welfare state." If you're talking about classical socialism, then it's "that a society should exist in which popular collectives control the means of power, and therefore the means of production."

    You can never have equality (or even semi-equality) of both wealth and opportunity, as putting ramifications on one immediately influences the other. The problem that Americans see with socialism is that it puts a much greater emphasis on creating an equality of means, which destroys the idea of equal opportunity. Striving for equal opportunity is what Americans can appreciate, but socialism is too class-obsessed to ever allow for equal opportunity.
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    (Original post by naivesincerity)
    I don't know...we're certainly not socialist in comparison to France, and they're probably more anti-authority than we are.
    Well, France is full of French people, who happened to acquire a taste for occasionally beheading members of the ruling class.
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    (Original post by Made in the USA)
    I don't think liking another culture necessarily means you feel 'cultureless'.

    That's not what i meant.what i meant that if a country has a less well defined culture, they may be more appreciative of a more defined culture, if that makes sense.

    I'm sure there are some cultures you like, but that doesn't make your culture any less rich.
    Defining a common set of American traditions, customs, and behavior is difficult in such a large country that doesn't have a homogeneous population. We also have many different subcultures in the US. Still there is quite a bit that most Americans have in common. We believe in individualism, free-markets, and self-sufficiency.

    yeah, i don't really agree with a lot of that stuff.no offence, but i think it's pretty disgusting that the richest country in the world has no freehealth care system for the poor...

    We believe that each individual acting in his or her best interests is not just good for the individual, but for the whole society. Americans are very hostile toward socialism. One thing that always surprises me is when I meet Europeans that admit to being socialists. Here, politicians insult one another by calling each other socialists. We are also very patriotic, but we understand the differences between our patriotism and the dangerous nationalism we saw in Europe not too long ago.
    i think lots of English people like to see themselves as a bit leftwing.they probably wouldn't use the term socialist though.you probably wouldn't catch a German or French refering to themselves openly as a socialist!we obviously see things differently,as i feel American patriotism appears to border on the nationalistic....i think English people are similar in this way.
    One thing i like about the Americans is their conservatism...we need more of that!
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    yeah i messed that post up a bit.some of the stuff in the quote thing is stuff i'm saying......oh well
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    (Original post by Spig)
    i think lots of English people like to see themselves as a bit leftwing.they probably wouldn't use the term socialist though.you probably wouldn't catch a German or French refering to themselves openly as a socialist!we obviously see things differently,as i feel American patriotism appears to border on the nationalistic....i think English people are similar in this way.
    One thing i like about the Americans is their conservatism...we need more of that!
    I've met some, but not many self-proclaimed socialists, but none of them have been Americans. American patriotism is not the same as nationalism and I think people from other countries sometimes don't see the nuances that differentiate it from nationalism. If you can't recognise the distinction, I can understand how it can seem the same as nationalism, which can be very frightening and rightly so.

    In the US, you will see flags proudly displayed, hear the anthem at a variety of different events, the "pledge of allegiance" every morning at schools, and politicians talking about how this is "the greatest nation on earth". For some reason foreigners find this nauseating and it's the hardest part of American culture to deal with. What's ironic is, as psychic mentioned in a previous post, there is widespread dislike for government and its institutions. We see "America" as something that is completely different/separate from the government and its institutions. So, in a nutshell, we love our country, but we hate our government. We love the economic system (sure there are people like Michael Moore on the lunatic fringe that hate this, but they are an extremely small vocal minority), the spirit of entrepreneurship, the principles in the constitution and the declaration of independence.

    With nationalism, people love EVERYTHING about their nation. They love their history,political, culture, economic system, the government institutions, ect. So, it is bad taste to engage in any kind of flag waving in other countries because it is equated with the nationalism that has been so harmful over the past several hundred years.

    Nationalism and American patriotism are completely different animals.
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    (Original post by Spig)
    yeah i messed that post up a bit.some of the stuff in the quote thing is stuff i'm saying......oh well
    Can you go back and edit the post? Saying there isn't a freehealth care system for the poor isn't true. We have medicare. If you are going to misquote me, at least type something that is factually correct.
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    (Original post by psychic_satori)
    Socialism contradicts individualism, free markets, and self-sufficiency. It also creates a larger role for the government in daily life. I think one thing MitUSA left off his list, which is very important, is that Americans hate government, regardless of the party in power. Of course, this is what our founders wanted, as it assures that the government is kept on its toes, so they obviously were successful in instilling us with a healthy dose of anti-authoritarianism.
    This mistrust of government is what I think drove our founders to grant us the right to bear arms. If the government ever abuses its power and imposes some sort of dictatorship on us, we can take to the streets with our guns and fight the government off.
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    (Original post by Made in the USA)
    Can you go back and edit the post? Saying there isn't a freehealth care system for the poor isn't true. We have medicare. If you are going to misquote me, at least type something that is factually correct.
    whoa!steady on there.i didn't mean to misquote you.i just typed in the wrong bit.anyway....i had heard abt that medicare thing but wasn't sure what it was.i thought it was only for the poor people who were,i dunno,abt to drop dead or something.i think there should be a free healthcare system for all..but this doesn't always translate too well into reality.i think it's the government's duty to provide free healthcare to everyone, so i guess i do believe in a more collectivistic approach.mind you i do think our gov't gives out too much in the way of general benefits.

    i have to say now that your last post cracked me up.i don't know if it was tongue in cheek...but i don't think it was.i was going to say earlier that many people believe the Americans are really trigger happy, but i didn't because i thought it'd offend.now i definately think it's true.i honestly can't imagine any other nationality saying that in times of crisis the best idea would be to 'take to the streets with our guns.?why do Americans answer everything with a round of ammunition???
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    (Original post by Spig)
    i honestly can't imagine any other nationality saying that in times of crisis the best idea would be to 'take to the streets with our guns.?
    Ye sons of France, awake to glory,
    Hark, hark, what myriads bid you rise:
    Your children, wives and grandsires aging,
    See their tears and hear their cries,
    See their tears and hear their cries!
    Shall hateful tyrants mischeif breeding
    With hireling Hosts, a ruffian band
    Affright and desolate the land,
    While peace and liberty lie bleeding?

    CHORUS
    To arms, to arms, ye brave!
    ThMarch on! march on!
    All hearts resolved on victory or death.

    O sacred love of Francy, undying,
    ThThy defenders, death defying,
    Fight with Freedom at their side.
    Soon they sons shall be victorious
    When the banner high is raised;
    And they dying enemies, amazed,
    Shall behold they triumph, great and glorious.

    CHORUS

    --------------------------------------

    Arise ye workers [starvelings] from your slumbers
    Arise ye prisoners of want
    For reason in revolt now thunders
    And at last ends the age of cant.
    Away with all your superstitions
    Servile masses arise, arise
    We'll change henceforth [forthwith] the old tradition [conditions]
    And spurn the dust to win the prize.

    So comrades, come rally
    And the last fight let us face
    The Internationale unites the human race.
    So comrades, come rally
    And the last fight let us face
    The Internationale unites the human race.

    No more deluded by reaction
    On tyrants only we'll make war
    The soldiers too will take strike action
    They'll break ranks and fight no more
    And if those cannibals keep trying
    To sacrifice us to their pride
    They soon shall hear the bullets flying
    We'll shoot the generals on our own side.

    (Chorus)

    No saviour from on high delivers
    No faith have we in prince or peer
    Our own right hand the chains must shiver
    Chains of hatred, greed and fear
    E'er the thieves will out with their booty [give up their booty]
    And give to all a happier lot.
    Each [those] at the forge must do their duty
    And we'll strike while the iron is hot.

    (chorus)
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    (Original post by Bismarck)
    Ye sons of France, awake to glory,
    Hark, hark, what myriads bid you rise:
    Your children, wives and grandsires aging,
    See their tears and hear their cries,
    See their tears and hear their cries!
    Shall hateful tyrants mischeif breeding
    With hireling Hosts, a ruffian band
    Affright and desolate the land,
    While peace and liberty lie bleeding?

    CHORUS
    To arms, to arms, ye brave!
    ThMarch on! march on!
    All hearts resolved on victory or death.

    O sacred love of Francy, undying,
    ThThy defenders, death defying,
    Fight with Freedom at their side.
    Soon they sons shall be victorious
    When the banner high is raised;
    And they dying enemies, amazed,
    Shall behold they triumph, great and glorious.

    CHORUS

    --------------------------------------

    Arise ye workers [starvelings] from your slumbers
    Arise ye prisoners of want
    For reason in revolt now thunders
    And at last ends the age of cant.
    Away with all your superstitions
    Servile masses arise, arise
    We'll change henceforth [forthwith] the old tradition [conditions]
    And spurn the dust to win the prize.

    So comrades, come rally
    And the last fight let us face
    The Internationale unites the human race.
    So comrades, come rally
    And the last fight let us face
    The Internationale unites the human race.

    No more deluded by reaction
    On tyrants only we'll make war
    The soldiers too will take strike action
    They'll break ranks and fight no more
    And if those cannibals keep trying
    To sacrifice us to their pride
    They soon shall hear the bullets flying
    We'll shoot the generals on our own side.

    (Chorus)

    No saviour from on high delivers
    No faith have we in prince or peer
    Our own right hand the chains must shiver
    Chains of hatred, greed and fear
    E'er the thieves will out with their booty [give up their booty]
    And give to all a happier lot.
    Each [those] at the forge must do their duty
    And we'll strike while the iron is hot.

    (chorus)

    :rolleyes: oh ha de ha ha.you actually looked that up.unless you knew it off by heart.i take your point.mind you they really were provoked.i was really referring to the 'gun culture'(hate that phrase) in America.i may be wrong (i often) am but there seems to be an erm flippancy abt violence.it was just the way Made in the USA said their guns and get down to business.it just made me laugh that's all.....
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    Ya. Dey fat.
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    (Original post by Spig)
    :rolleyes: oh ha de ha ha.you actually looked that up.unless you knew it off by heart.i take your point.mind you they really were provoked.i was really referring to the 'gun culture'(hate that phrase) in America.i may be wrong (i often) am but there seems to be an erm flippancy abt violence.it was just the way Made in the USA said their guns and get down to business.it just made me laugh that's all.....
    It doesn't take a genius to know that France and the Soviet Union have/had pretty bloody anthems. There are plenty more where those came from.

    Anyway, you said:

    i honestly can't imagine any other nationality saying that in times of crisis the best idea would be to 'take to the streets with our guns.?
    Clearly other nationalities are saying those things if those things are part of their national anthems.
 
 
 
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