Do you hate Americans?

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Sparrowhawk
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#1441
Report 15 years ago
#1441
Well, as one American, (but not one of the 59+ million who were SO DUMB), I apologize for the current right-wing, war-mongering, crony capitalist, anti-feminist, civil rights-quashing, dogmatic religious regime in the US. We cringe every day.

We really tried to oust Bush, but were defeated by our own flawed structure (blame the Constitutional Convention and the too-ready compromises of the framers for that). The quasi-democratic government of the US is quite a bit off from the ideal of "one person, one vote." Think about this - 35% of the populace (in the southern, subsidy-grabbing, extraction industry states) have 50 senators, 65% of the populace (in the coastal and northern midwest industrial, urban, net tax loss states) have 50 senators. And in the electoral college, voting power is highly skewed - one vote in Wyoming has 40 times the impact of one vote in California.

I could bore on and on, but I will just suggest a link that explains our situation very well. If you like, you can learn why it is difficult to overcome regressive influences here: www.metrovsretro.com.

The "Divided America: Retro Versus Metro" is a free online book written by John Sperling and many co-authors - he started the University of Phoenix (online U). (Interesting history - Sperling was born in a midwest Christian fundamentalist family, joined the merchant marine, which revamped his beliefs and politics, got a Ph.D in Philosophy from Cambridge, taught at San Diego for 10 years, and then founded Phoenix.) The book is an unusual fusion of top-down reasoning from first causes, historical insight, and extremely thorough research providing unambiguous facts, statistics, and maps. Even if you only read the chapter summaries, you will know more about the forces shaping US politics/policies/government than 80% of the adult US public.
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curryADD
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#1442
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#1442
(Original post by Sparrowhawk)
Well, as one American, (but not one of the 59+ million who were SO DUMB), I apologize for the current right-wing, war-mongering, crony capitalist, anti-feminist, civil rights-quashing, dogmatic religious regime in the US. We cringe every day.

We really tried to oust Bush, but were defeated by our own flawed structure (blame the Constitutional Convention and the too-ready compromises of the framers for that). The quasi-democratic government of the US is quite a bit off from the ideal of "one person, one vote." Think about this - 35% of the populace (in the southern, subsidy-grabbing, extraction industry states) have 50 senators, 65% of the populace (in the coastal and northern midwest industrial, urban, net tax loss states) have 50 senators. And in the electoral college, voting power is highly skewed - one vote in Wyoming has 40 times the impact of one vote in California.

I could bore on and on, but I will just suggest a link that explains our situation very well. If you like, you can learn why it is difficult to overcome regressive influences here: www.metrovsretro.com.

The "Divided America: Retro Versus Metro" is a free online book written by John Sperling and many co-authors - he started the University of Phoenix (online U). (Interesting history - Sperling was born in a midwest Christian fundamentalist family, joined the merchant marine, which revamped his beliefs and politics, got a Ph.D in Philosophy from Cambridge, taught at San Diego for 10 years, and then founded Phoenix.) The book is an unusual fusion of top-down reasoning from first causes, historical insight, and extremely thorough research providing unambiguous facts, statistics, and maps. Even if you only read the chapter summaries, you will know more about the forces shaping US politics/policies/government than 80% of the adult US public.
I agree. but please, do not forget the 49% who was smart enough to not vote for moral issues! and most republicans currently have stuck their heads in the sand and are pretending that everything is perfect. they are trying to see what they want to see...and nothing more.

I hate them for that.
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Douglas
Badges: 9
#1443
Report 15 years ago
#1443
(Original post by curryADD)
I agree. but please, do not forget the 49% who was smart enough to not vote for moral issues!
I hate them for that.
Actually, 91% of the voters DID NOT vote for moral issues.

"What one issue mattered most to you in deciding how you voted for president?" .

%
Iraq/The war
27%
Economy/Jobs
14
Moral values
9
Terrorism/Security
9
Honesty/Integrity
5
Other Bush
5
Other Kerry
4
Health care
3
Abortion
3
Direction of the country
2
Candidate's religiosity, morals
2
Strength/Leadership
2
Foreign policy
2
Gay marriage/Marriage
2
Don't change course
2
Other
15
Unsure/Nothing/Everything
5
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Douglas
Badges: 9
#1444
Report 15 years ago
#1444
(Original post by Sparrowhawk)
Well, as one American, (but not one of the 59+ million who were SO DUMB), I apologize for the current right-wing, war-mongering, crony capitalist, anti-feminist, civil rights-quashing, dogmatic religious regime in the US. We cringe every day.
Hmmmm, who voted for Bush?

93% of registered republicans
48% of registered independants
11% of registered democrats.

anti-feminist, civil rights-quashing, dogmatic religious regime in the US. We cringe every day
Rhetoric, not facts.
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Vienna
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#1445
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#1445
(Original post by Sparrowhawk)
Well, as one American, (but not one of the 59+ million who were SO DUMB), I apologize for the current right-wing, war-mongering, crony capitalist, anti-feminist, civil rights-quashing, dogmatic religious regime in the US. We cringe every day.
Im not aware of such a regime.

'We' being the pacifistic communists?
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Kondar
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#1446
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#1446
(Original post by Sparrowhawk)
anti-feminist, civil rights-quashing, dogmatic religious regime in the US. We cringe every day
(Original post by Douglas)
Rhetoric, not facts.
Douglas, you realize you say this same kind of crap all the time.

To point out that I try to be consistent, I will say that while I can sympathise with Sparrowhawk's plight, I think her dismissal of the right is a weak generalisation. You have extremes on both ends of the spectrum and in the middle you have people who simply disagree.

Not all conservatives are like this. Im sure there are a at least a few decent ones out there...
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Douglas
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#1447
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#1447
(Original post by Kondar)
Douglas, you realize you say this same kind of crap all the time.
To point out that I try to be consistent, I will say that while I can sympathise with Sparrowhawk's plight, I think her dismissal of the right is a weak generalisation. You have extremes on both ends of the spectrum and in the middle you have people who simply disagree.

Not all conservatives are like this. Im sure there are a at least a few decent ones out there...
Kondar, I say the same kind of crap every time I see an uninformed person make these outrageous bird-brained remarks.
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psychic_satori
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#1448
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#1448
(Original post by Sparrowhawk)
Well, as one American, (but not one of the 59+ million who were SO DUMB)
Actually, the IQ levels and educational backgrounds statistically show that Republicans tend to be the smarter ones. Of course, the left never really was for labelling people...except Republicans... :rolleyes:

I apologize for the current right-wing, war-mongering, crony capitalist, anti-feminist, civil rights-quashing, dogmatic religious regime in the US. We cringe every day.
Why do I not find it a surprise that you dislike capitalism, and are convinced that permitting people to express their religion (instead of the secular desire to banish religion from view), regardless of what religion it is, is somehow dogmatic? You MUST talk to Kondar...

We really tried to oust Bush, but were defeated by our own flawed structure (blame the Constitutional Convention and the too-ready compromises of the framers for that). The quasi-democratic government of the US is quite a bit off from the ideal of "one person, one vote." Think about this - 35% of the populace (in the southern, subsidy-grabbing, extraction industry states) have 50 senators, 65% of the populace (in the coastal and northern midwest industrial, urban, net tax loss states) have 50 senators. And in the electoral college, voting power is highly skewed - one vote in Wyoming has 40 times the impact of one vote in California.
Alright, the real reason I even bothered replying to this ridiculous post...the electoral college is the best strategy for electing national leaders democratically without strife and violence between different sectors of society. If the President were elected solely by popular vote, only urban, and highly populated areas of the country would matter to politicians. Obviously the needs and interests of rural, sub-urban, and urban areas differ greatly. But, if only the well-populated areas of the country matter on Election Day, guess what parts of the country are going to receive all of the federal benefits and be the only ones whose voices are heard? Presidential candidates could skip over entire states if they campaigned right. Press California, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Texas, Florida, and Ohio. Forget about Montana, Wyoming, Idaho, etc. The electoral college makes every state matter. Last I checked, it was the President of the United States of America, not the President of the "Most Populous Parts of America."
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starchybean
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#1449
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#1449
Wow, entertaining thread!

I don't like the current Administration but I won't apologize for it as I do the best I can to protest against it.
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Kondar
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#1450
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#1450
(Original post by psychic_satori)
Actually, the IQ levels and educational backgrounds statistically show that Republicans tend to be the smarter ones. Of course, the left never really was for labelling people...except Republicans... :rolleyes:
Where did you dig this crap up??
Why do I not find it a surprise that you dislike capitalism, and are convinced that permitting people to express their religion (instead of the secular desire to banish religion from view), regardless of what religion it is, is somehow dogmatic? You MUST talk to Kondar...
If the law is against you argue the facts, if the facts are against you, argue the law. If both the law and the facts are against you- attack the other side. I take all this name calling to be a reflection of that. I dont see you responding to Douglas's comments... why not? I got up and said that these kind of generalisations were wrong.
(Original post by Douglas)
Kondar, I say the same kind of crap every time I see an uninformed person make these outrageous bird-brained remarks.
Dougie boy- I dont know if you realise it or not, but you DO make these very same comments against liberals all the time? Maybe now, you know how it looks.
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Douglas
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#1451
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#1451
(Original post by Kondar)
Dougie boy- I dont know if you realise it or not, but you DO make these very same comments against liberals all the time? Maybe now, you know how it looks.
All my comments are based on pure raw facts....as you know.

Keep in mind that I differentiate between sane democrats and insane democrats.
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Kondar
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#1452
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#1452
(Original post by psychic_satori)
Actually, the IQ levels and educational backgrounds statistically show that Republicans tend to be the smarter ones. Of course, the left never really was for labelling people...except Republicans... :rolleyes:
Here you go my dear:

No College Degree (58%)----Bush----53%----Kerry 47%

Postgrad Study__ (16%)----Bush----44%---- Kerry 55%

The highest and lowest education levels- what was that you just said?

"The tax cuts will make the economy grow. As people do better, they start voting like Republicans--unless they have too much education and vote Democratic, which proves there can be too much of a good thing." - Rove
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Vienna
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#1453
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#1453
(Original post by Kondar)
Here you go my dear:

No College Degree (58%)----Bush----53%----Kerry 47%

Postgrad Study__ (16%)----Bush----44%---- Kerry 55%

The highest and lowest education levels- what was that you just said?
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pag.../epolls.0.html

Postgrad Stdy (16%) 44% Bush 55% Kerry

College Grad (26%) 52% Bush 46% Kerry

Some College (32%) 54% Bush 46% Kerry

H.S. Graduate (22%) 52% Bush 47% Kerry

No High School (4%) 49% Bush 50% Kerry

So according to CNN, Bush had the majority of College Grad, Some College Grad and High School leavers(80% of the vote) while Kerry had the majority of those without any High School education at all.
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A_master
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#1454
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#1454
(Original post by vienna95)
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pag.../epolls.0.html

Postgrad Stdy (16%) 44% Bush 55% Kerry

College Grad (26%) 52% Bush 46% Kerry

Some College (32%) 54% Bush 46% Kerry

H.S. Graduate (22%) 52% Bush 47% Kerry

No High School (4%) 49% Bush 50% Kerry

So according to CNN, Bush had the majority of College Grad, Some College Grad and High School leavers(80% of the vote) while Kerry had the majority of those without any High School education at all.
Oh the credibility of the CNN!!!
They're the same as Al-Jazeera!!!
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Vienna
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#1455
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#1455
(Original post by A_master)
Oh the credibility of the CNN!!!
They're the same as Al-Jazeera!!!
CNN/Gallup polls are among the most credible in the United States.
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Sparrowhawk
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#1456
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#1456
CurryADD - a progressive voice crying in the wilderness of Texas? Welcome, brother.

As for you guys in the UK, maybe you can do a better job of removing Blair than we were able to do with W. Sure hope so.

Just out of curiousity, how many US applicants to UK unis are Republican? Poll?

"If Adolf Hitler flew in today, they'd send a limousine anyway" Name that tune.
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psychic_satori
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#1457
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#1457
(Original post by Kondar)
Where did you dig this crap up??
Prof. James Lindgren of Northwestern University

If the law is against you argue the facts, if the facts are against you, argue the law. If both the law and the facts are against you- attack the other side. I take all this name calling to be a reflection of that. I dont see you responding to Douglas's comments... why not? I got up and said that these kind of generalisations were wrong.Dougie boy- I dont know if you realise it or not, but you DO make these very same comments against liberals all the time? Maybe now, you know how it looks.
Right, *I'm* the one name-calling...referring to the Bush administration as "right-wing, war-mongering, crony capitalist, anti-feminist, civil rights-quashing, dogmatic religious regime" is not... :rolleyes:
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Apollo
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#1458
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#1458
(Original post by Douglas)
Kondar, I say the same kind of crap every time I see an uninformed person make these outrageous bird-brained remarks.
first step to a cure is being able to admit it! Bravo!
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psychic_satori
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#1459
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#1459
(Original post by Kondar)
Here you go my dear:

No College Degree (58%)----Bush----53%----Kerry 47%

Postgrad Study__ (16%)----Bush----44%---- Kerry 55%

The highest and lowest education levels- what was that you just said?
You did not cite your source...

Prof. James Lindgren of Northwestern:

"In the 1994-2002 General Social Surveys (GSS), Republicans have over 6/10ths of a year more education on average than Democrats. Republicans also have a higher final mean educational degree. Further, Republicans scored better than Democrats on two word tests in the GSS—a short vocabulary test and a modified analogies test.

"If one breaks down the data by party affiliation and political orientation, the most highly educated group is conservative Republicans, who also score highest on the vocabulary and analogical reasoning tests. Liberal Democrats score only insignificantly lower than conservative Republicans.

The least educated subgroups are moderate and conservative Democrats, who also score at the bottom (or very near the bottom) on vocabulary and analogy tests."
(Original post by Kondar)
"The tax cuts will make the economy grow. As people do better, they start voting like Republicans--unless they have too much education and vote Democratic, which proves there can be too much of a good thing." - Rove
Karl Rove was speaking of the intellectual elitism that is so prevalent amongst the highly educated. You know, the sort of people who can explain the intricacies of the Crimean War, but can never remember where they put their car keys. These same people tend to be very fond of a nanny-style government, in the hopes the the government can step in and help them with all of their problems.
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Vienna
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#1460
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#1460
(Original post by Sparrowhawk)
As for you guys in the UK, maybe you can do a better job of removing Blair than we were able to do with W. Sure hope so.
.
Why?
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