The Problem With The English Language In India Watch

navarre
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http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin...uage-in-india/

Imagine living in a nation where you, a member of the majority, are unable to read the label of the medicine you must give your child, the menu at a local restaurant or even the warning signs of the road; a place where you are unable to comprehend the government document officiating your driver’s license, tax filing or marriage. This is the world that hundreds of millions of Indians live in simply because the elite prefer English. This discrimination has become so systemic that the elite and middle classes send their children to English private schools while the vast poor send theirs to the government schools of their mother tongue. One need not mention that universities and even government jobs require fluency in English, as mandated by the ruling elite. Therefore, a person’s socioeconomic status in Indian society is approximately in line with his or her fluency in the language. In other words: a new caste system.

It is incomprehensible that the majority of people in India are being oppressed by the mere lack of knowledge of a language. By not having medical instructions, food ingredient labels and nutritional information, government forms, access to the courts and politicians, street signs, and even movie tickets in their mother tongue, they are being harmed in the most discriminatory of manners. This goes beyond a basic democratic right to just being inherently illogical and prejudiced. Make no mistake, simply because an auto driver, a maid or a store employee knows his or her numbers, colors and a few other cursory words in English does not mean they truly speak it, let alone read it. Moreover, the academic conversation on this matter is controlled by those in the cities while the situation is much more dire in the towns, villages, hamlets and tribal regions.

Why English has become the language of the elite


There is an enormous range of nuanced reasons as to why English has become the language of the elite and of governance in India, even putting aside the original Macaulyism. It remains that Indians have come to believe that their nation’s prosperity, as well as their own, is wholly dependent upon not just learning English, but exclusively learning it as a first language. It began with the travelled elite, boomed within the middle class that was hired by multinational companies, and trickled to the vast majority hoping to escape their destitution but unable to afford private English education. Curiously, many states in India have attempted to make English the medium of instruction for all schools in an attempt to assuage the demands of the poor; however, the shortage of teachers who can even speak English is surreal. All of this while the vast majority is able to communicate in their respective mother tongues.

The most spoken languages in India, according to India’s census data, are Hindi (422m), Bengali (83m), Telugu (75m), Marathi (71m), Tamil (60m), Urdu (51m), Gujarati (46m), and Punjabi (29m). As such, the states in India are generally drawn on linguistic lines with each state having a history of literature, art, dance, politics and value system that is its own; being similar to the European Union in this regard. Take Andhra Pradesh and Telangana, for example, where Telugu is the local language: These two states combined have a larger population than France, South Korea and Turkey. However, unlike these nations, the language of the majority is falling into disarray because of strict English use with a prejudice due to governments and companies needlessly conducting intrastate business (with great difficulty) in English when they could reach far more people in the local language. While it is true that English is integral for communication between states, the Central Government and foreign companies, is it really necessary to use it within a state where most people have the same mother tongue? To be perfectly clear, no reasonable person could advocate that English should not be taught. In fact, it would be imprudent not to teach the modern lingua franca (or inglese if you so please) but there is no reason to believe that people could not be fluent if they learn it from their early years onwards as a second language. That is what is done in so many other nations like Sweden, Germany, Japan, Thailand, Greece, Finland, Italy, Egypt, and so forth.

Only about 30% can speak English


The statistics on English speaking ability tends to be unreliable for a host of political reasons, but it is generally accepted that somewhere in the range of 30% are able, to varying degrees, speak English—though only a third have some semblance of reading and writing aptitude. Still, it is unadorned disenfranchisement and an embarrassing plight for the other 70-80% of Indians. Contextually, this would mean anywhere from 770-900 million people are being oppressed on a daily basis. Even if one subtracts the 25-30% who are illiterate (another matter entirely), this is still about 577-630 million. For argument’s sake, let us say that this affects only 200 million people: this is still thrice the population of the U.K. Is this acceptable for a purportedly “socialist democracy?” Of the myriad of India’s social constructs this is possibly the simplest matter to amend and remedy.

To explore the matter at a more foundational level, all development begins with education, and education, of course, stems from language. Yet, language is much more than a means of communication; it determines the books one reads, the television programs one watches, the ideas one is exposed to, the values one holds, one’s personal interests, and one’s career opportunities. In essence, it defines our identities. Therefore, what is perhaps most damning is that because of this favoritism afforded to the English language the cultures of India are dying as they lose out on generations of authors, activists, actors, artists, playwrights, innovators, orators, and businesspersons who would have otherwise contributed to, and enriched, their own language.
An interesting read. English is the lingua franca of India- the nation's language of government, media and higher education- and yet hundreds of millions of Indians still have no grasp of the language. The poor, as so often in the world, are being left behind and put at a disadvantage, as the rich move to English and away from other Indian languages.
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Kittiara
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That's a really interesting read. Thanks for sharing it . The numbers are staggering! Not that it would be okay to exclude a smaller number of people from the opportunities open to others, but they really drive the point home.

You are right - it's always the poor who get left behind. I wonder what can be done to change this. Will we ever live in a world of true equal opportunity?
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MatureStudent36
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There's lots of languages in India. It would be a night are catering for all of them.

The Indians I know have all said that they're glad that English is the overriding language.
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Ggmu!
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The reason English is used is due to the pigheadedness of so many southern States who are still drunk off their false Dravidian history. For them it's some type of imperialistic insult to have to use Hindi. They refuse to see Hindi used as the national language so English is the only compromise.

However this will change slowly in this government, Hindi will slowly be used more and hopefully regional languages in States.

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Rakas21
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(Original post by Ggmu!)
The reason English is used is due to the pigheadedness of so many southern States who are still drunk off their false Dravidian history. For them it's some type of imperialistic insult to have to use Hindi. They refuse to see Hindi used as the national language so English is the only compromise.

However this will change slowly in this government, Hindi will slowly be used more and hopefully regional languages in States.

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Why would you want to encourage such minor languages. It would be better for everybody if the poor were simply taught English to join the modern world in which English is the business language.
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Ggmu!
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(Original post by Rakas21)
Why would you want to encourage such minor languages. It would be better for everybody if the poor were simply taught English to join the modern world in which English is the business language.
They're the only language many communities will know for a long time to come. There are lots of remote communities which won't be taught English for years. Besides, English isn't necessary for many, so there is no need to shift the native language away for a foreign one.

And as you saw, none of those languages were minor really, they had lots of speakers and all have TV stations, newspapers, literature even movies for some.

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Rakas21
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(Original post by Ggmu!)
They're the only language many communities will know for a long time to come. There are lots of remote communities which won't be taught English for years. Besides, English isn't necessary for many, so there is no need to shift the native language away for a foreign one.

And as you saw, none of those languages were minor really, they had lots of speakers and all have TV stations, newspapers, literature even movies for some.

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Surely the simplest solution though is a law which states all schools must teach English as the primary language and a second language as secondary (many schools may then choose to teach Hindi).

No need if they are trapped in poverty but in this global world they stand a bigger chance of earning the big bucks with a multinational that will use English as a medium.
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Ggmu!
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(Original post by Rakas21)
Surely the simplest solution though is a law which states all schools must teach English as the primary language and a second language as secondary (many schools may then choose to teach Hindi).

No need if they are trapped in poverty but in this global world they stand a bigger chance of earning the big bucks with a multinational that will use English as a medium.
They need the teachers and infrastructure first. There are already thousands of English medium schools throughout India, they are only growing.

I don't think languages should be enshrined in law, it's a sensitive issue in India.

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(Original post by Ggmu!)
They're the only language many communities will know for a long time to come. There are lots of remote communities which won't be taught English for years. Besides, English isn't necessary for many, so there is no need to shift the native language away for a foreign one.

And as you saw, none of those languages were minor really, they had lots of speakers and all have TV stations, newspapers, literature even movies for some.

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There's 22 odd languages in india. Do you not think it would be a good idea to help communication to have one common language such as English?
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Ggmu!
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(Original post by MatureStudent36)
There's 22 odd languages in india. Do you not think it would be a good idea to help communication to have one common language such as English?
It would be nice if everyone could agree. However I don't know how I'd feel seeing languages die in favour of English. I'd rather English only be used for government documents and purposes, after that, it is down to an individual what language is used where.. You can't harm the diversity of India, that's it's strength... I don't see China moving to English.

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MatureStudent36
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(Original post by Ggmu!)
It would be nice if everyone could agree. However I don't know how I'd feel seeing languages die in favour of English. I'd rather English only be used for government documents and purposes, after that, it is down to an individual what language is used where.. You can't harm the diversity of India, that's it's strength... I don't see China moving to English.

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I thought that's what happens in India. English for official business and as a common language and then the other twenty or something for personal use.

Remember that local languages and dialects have been getting killed off since the dawn of time. It's just development.
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Ggmu!
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(Original post by MatureStudent36)
I thought that's what happens in India. English for official business and as a common language and then the other twenty or something for personal use.

Remember that local languages and dialects have been getting killed off since the dawn of time. It's just development.
Hindi is still widely used, and it greatly irks southern states. The current government are nationalistic so are not keen on promoting English as widespread. The issue of language crops up in the news from some politician making some comment periodically.

Local languages are dying but state languages should not die. State languages are still spoken by millions of speakers and all produce a wealth of literature, music etc. I mean languages like Punjabi, Gujarati, Kannada, Tamil, Goan, Assamese etc. I believe it has a deeper value.

It's hard but there needs to be a national consensus on using English for all governmental work, between states etc. India does have the capacity for state and local languages to thrive alongside being fluent in English.

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Nitokrishan
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(Original post by Ggmu!)
The reason English is used is due to the pigheadedness of so many southern States who are still drunk off their false Dravidian history. For them it's some type of imperialistic insult to have to use Hindi. They refuse to see Hindi used as the national language so English is the only compromise.

However this will change slowly in this government, Hindi will slowly be used more and hopefully regional languages in States.

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According to general Indian history, the Aryans arrived in north India somewhere from Iran and southern Russia at around 1500 BC. Before the Aryans, the Dravidian people resided in India. The Aryans disregarded the local cultures. They began conquering and taking control over regions in north India and at the same time pushed the local people southwards or towards the jungles and mountains in north India. According to this historical fact the general division of Indian society is made. North Indians are Aryans and south Indians are Dravidians.

In fact, history says that the pale skinned Indian is the legacy of the barbaric invasion & conquest from the low UV West of the sophisticated, advanced, peaceful, & weaponless Native Indian Dravidian Indus Valley Civilisation in India 5,000 years ago. It appears that the conquerors are still in charge.

Where were you when the caste system was integrated into the innocents of the native people of bharath ?

I need not add that Its th Tamils(Dravidian(the Sanskrit word "Davida" actually meant "Tamil)) who were the builders of the Indus valley civilization. When the Aryan people moved into India (they were not invaders but moved in as pastorialists/nomads over a period of time starting from around 1800 bc (long after the Ind

Ad don't forget..Sanskrit is dead as a popular(i mean poppular=spoken by people). and Tamil lives.Tamils can understand tamil poems and literature written 2300 years ago. when thiruvalluvars "kurral" is read, any tamil can understand it! this shows how much tamil has retained its purity vis a vis other indian languages. can an average hindi person understand ANY of the sanskrit slokas?nope!

Do u know that the word "ganga" itself is not originally Sanskrit? its proven to be either a "Munda" or "Dravidian' word. even Sanskrit scholars agree.

And guess whats the origin of the other so called aryan word "Pur/puri" (meaning city).?? It derives from the Dravidian word "Ur" and interestingly the Sumerian word "UR" has the same meaning and linguists acknowledge the fact that the Sumerian language Might have been heavily influenced/and/or/ be an offshoot of the Dravidian language

Even today in tamil we use the word "ur". the main cities of the Sumerians had the names "Urruk" and "Nippur"

And finally many of the names of the hindu gods and godesses are actually the names of the gods and godesses of the Indus valley people(dravidians). the aryans co-opted these gods into their Pantheon, lol..even the higest of all hindu gods; "siva" is a dravidian god.

It is also important to remember that its the Tamils who had the first Indian empire that spread outside of India.The tamil Chola Empire. The Naval power of the Cholas was more than a match for even that of the Chinese emperor during the 10-12 centuries.
south east asia and its seas were called the "Chola lake"
The Cholas were the Indian Equivalent of the romans.They were not only known for their military and organizational might, but also for their patronage of the arts and the breathtakingly beautiful temples they built

The Tamil empire extended to the south east Asian islands.Its influence is felt even to this day. there are a lot of Hindus living in Bali even today. Even the king of the now-Buddhist country of Thailand is recited verses from the Tamil sacred-hym "Thiruvasakam" when he is coronated(made a king)......

Hintutuva Criminals stole their theories from
" Thamizh Aaseevagham "


Please read some history/archeology before you post fact that would only make you seem ignorant 
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Ggmu!
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(Original post by Nitokrishan)
According to general Indian history, the Aryans arrived in north India somewhere from Iran and southern Russia at around 1500 BC. Before the Aryans, the Dravidian people resided in India. The Aryans disregarded the local cultures. They began conquering and taking control over regions in north India and at the same time pushed the local people southwards or towards the jungles and mountains in north India. According to this historical fact the general division of Indian society is made. North Indians are Aryans and south Indians are Dravidians.

In fact, history says that the pale skinned Indian is the legacy of the barbaric invasion & conquest from the low UV West of the sophisticated, advanced, peaceful, & weaponless Native Indian Dravidian Indus Valley Civilisation in India 5,000 years ago. It appears that the conquerors are still in charge.

Where were you when the caste system was integrated into the innocents of the native people of bharath ?

I need not add that Its th Tamils(Dravidian(the Sanskrit word "Davida" actually meant "Tamil)) who were the builders of the Indus valley civilization. When the Aryan people moved into India (they were not invaders but moved in as pastorialists/nomads over a period of time starting from around 1800 bc (long after the Ind

Ad don't forget..Sanskrit is dead as a popular(i mean poppular=spoken by people). and Tamil lives.Tamils can understand tamil poems and literature written 2300 years ago. when thiruvalluvars "kurral" is read, any tamil can understand it! this shows how much tamil has retained its purity vis a vis other indian languages. can an average hindi person understand ANY of the sanskrit slokas?nope!

Do u know that the word "ganga" itself is not originally Sanskrit? its proven to be either a "Munda" or "Dravidian' word. even Sanskrit scholars agree.

And guess whats the origin of the other so called aryan word "Pur/puri" (meaning city).?? It derives from the Dravidian word "Ur" and interestingly the Sumerian word "UR" has the same meaning and linguists acknowledge the fact that the Sumerian language Might have been heavily influenced/and/or/ be an offshoot of the Dravidian language

Even today in tamil we use the word "ur". the main cities of the Sumerians had the names "Urruk" and "Nippur"

And finally many of the names of the hindu gods and godesses are actually the names of the gods and godesses of the Indus valley people(dravidians). the aryans co-opted these gods into their Pantheon, lol..even the higest of all hindu gods; "siva" is a dravidian god.

It is also important to remember that its the Tamils who had the first Indian empire that spread outside of India.The tamil Chola Empire. The Naval power of the Cholas was more than a match for even that of the Chinese emperor during the 10-12 centuries.
south east asia and its seas were called the "Chola lake"
The Cholas were the Indian Equivalent of the romans.They were not only known for their military and organizational might, but also for their patronage of the arts and the breathtakingly beautiful temples they built

The Tamil empire extended to the south east Asian islands.Its influence is felt even to this day. there are a lot of Hindus living in Bali even today. Even the king of the now-Buddhist country of Thailand is recited verses from the Tamil sacred-hym "Thiruvasakam" when he is coronated(made a king)......

Hintutuva Criminals stole their theories from
" Thamizh Aaseevagham "


Please read some history/archeology before you post fact that would only make you seem ignorant 
Lol so you think Indian culture was brought by Iranians and Russians?

Please don't parrot outdated Western archeology based on racism and white supremacy.

Unless you're the Tamil guy, Idc.

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Nitokrishan
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(Original post by navarre)
http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin...uage-in-india/



An interesting read. English is the lingua franca of India- the nation's language of government, media and higher education- and yet hundreds of millions of Indians still have no grasp of the language. The poor, as so often in the world, are being left behind and put at a disadvantage, as the rich move to English and away from other Indian languages.

Tamilians are speaking tamil for past 4000 years and they have huge linguistic culture which hindi dosen't have.you can't tell them to stop speaking tamil and say start speaking hindi.

First let the hindi speaking states increase their own literacy rate, at least in hindi. Why do you think BIMARU states (hindi belt) are the worst developed and the southern & the western states (non-hindi) states are good in this respect?

Before India was formed by British there were lot of kingdoms ruling the Indian sub continent. South India was being ruled by it's native people for many thousands years. No one knew that there was a language called Hindi.Tamil has been the language of the people of this region for tens of thousands years. It has been the official language in the south before the British. The oldest Tamil literature found is 2300 years old. So just imagine how many years a language must have been before it evolved a repertoire,

We have our own language for communication within the territory where we have been living for tens of thousand years. We have English to communicate with rest of the world. Why do we, the Tamils need Hindi? Do we impose Tamil on Hindi people?

It's very sad to see that many languages in north & central India were destroyed by Hindi imposition. I understand that Urdu has been the spoken language & official language of the present Delhi region for many many years and it usage remained even during British time. Urdu became Hindi after it was written in Sanskrit scripts. Sanskrit was dead and buried long long time ago.The Hindian rulers waste the revenue which is collected from various languages speaking people to impose Hindi on others. This is terrorism.

After independence, Indian politicians from hindi states who were of the naive opinion that english should not be retained since india just got independence from british, decided to switch to hindi-only no-english mode all over india.

But politicians from tamil nadu who were one of the most educated and most developed state in india, were not so naive to drop english and go back by centuries when world was doing business in english. they clearly understood that english was the language in which development happened and hindi is not.
when switch from english to hindi was forced in 1965 tamil politicians and students protested for retaining english in india and hence it was decided to retain english in india.

The hindi speaking states never really took that much to english in the 50 years after independence with RSS and BJP even claiming that computers would increase unemployment. Such was their understanding of technology and the new world.

But people in tamilnadu and southindia took to english and were the first ones to reap the benefits of it by way of bloom in the software industry. This is the major reason that majority of the software companies are situated in the south. South india developed much faster than the national average when the economy was opened up. south with its knowledge of english was ready to take the opportunities and was well prepared for it. but the hindi speaking states, with their hatred for english were never really prepared for it and lost out and are trying to catch up now.
now the tamil politicians have been proved right in their premonition that english would be the fastest way to development ...

I am proud of Tamils for contributing to India in retaining English as one of its official languages, becaue it enforce people to respect all the languages!
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Nitokrishan
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(Original post by Ggmu!)
Lol so you think Indian culture was brought by Iranians and Russians?

Please don't parrot outdated Western archeology based on racism and white supremacy.

Unless you're the Tamil guy, Idc.

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I don't have too much time on my hands. I had an evening off, I chose to partake in replying to this forum.I use these terms (Aryan,Dravidian) to refer to the people speaking either of the language families. Dravidian language family is ancient. Dravidian languages have rich vocabulary. Dravidian languages are recognised in foreign countries also.

One third of Indian population speaks a dravidian language!
But I am sad that north indians do not even recognize this family or the languages. They simply blabber that sanskrit is the mother of indian languages. If they learn any one of the dravidian languages, they can understand indian history better. Their contribution is great! Effect of dravidian is present all over india. N.I will be able to learn other dravidian languages as well very easily.

Learning dravidian languages has no relation with supporting dravidian parties.
But a common Indian language should arise with more number of root words from dravidian family also. That will lead to united india very sooner.

As a Tamil, I consider myself to be purely Dravidian. I do acknowledge the Aryan-Dravidian divide and I often notice subtle implications in regard to this when people talk about Indian History and traditions. I firmly believe that Dravidians are the original inhabitants of India analogous to the Native Americans of North America. At the same time, I do not have anything against North Indians and I really appreciate the diversity they bring to our country. I don't think any one race has the right to claim ownership of a piece of land solely on the basis of who was there first, after all, the time we have spent on Earth collectively as a race is but a fleeting second in the vast expanse of time and space.




MAP OF TAMIL EXPANSE DURING CHOLA DYNASTY

English has been successfully integrated into Tamil due to the intertwining use of both the languages for decades. During 1970s and 1980s, Tamil youngsters took speaking English as a superior way to impress others and considered it as a fashion. This was supported by movies of MGR and Sivaji where the heroes are shown as highly educated youngsters who converse fluently in English. Even in 1990s, Rajini and Kamal Haasan continued the trend.


In the 1000s of years of Tamil History, Hindi has never ever crossed its path into the Tamil territory. Infact Hindi is a mix of Persian and Sanskrit languages having been heavily influenced by Mughals. The general misconception is that Hindi is a Hindu language.

English has been making inroads into Tamil for the past 150-200 years. Nowadays it has found its way into the households through Tanglish.

Now coming to the main point, in general, Tamils are very conservative. The effect of English into Tamil is result of 300 years of British rule where Tamils found that learning English could help them cope up with the British well and increase their trade and business. But English was "not" imposed upon them. You can see many historical buildings in Chennai named after British rather than Sanskrit or Hindi names.

Tamils have no reason to learn Hindi. Infact, Hindi is useless in Tamil Nadu. Also, they are aware that their language and identity is precious and that the chauvinists from North have their best try to destroy this link and impose Hindi for their vested interests. They are also aware of the advantages of knowing English.


This is why Tamils are more comfortable with English rather that learning a language which has no use or share no roots with our language and our history.

We are better in learning and handling english because of the strong school education we go through. Along with that you get most jobs with the requirement of knowing english. Hindi i am sorry there is no use for us in learning it. It is totally useless here. Let me give you a simple example, i was at chennai airport to go out on a europe trip. I was asked by the north indian security something in hindi. I replied him don't you know english or Tamil he said something in hindi,i complained to a well known higher official immediately. He came there talked to the north guy's head,smiled and went away, this north guy came to me and said sorry for inconvenience. we will never accept hindi. Tamil is in our blood and soul you can not replace it with some odd language. English is a global connecting language. If you want to communicate with a Tamil person speak english or get away. we will not learn hindi to comfort you people.


English gives us jobs and lets us connect to the world which us also you north.
But hindi is good for nothing to learn. This is the mindset of most of our Tamil people.

Hindi is not a Global language.. But English is..

The main reason for not even trying Hindi is history. If you go through the history of India you will probably get the precise reason for not speaking or learning Hindi. Secondly there is no point in learning Hindi as tamil is well enough for everything. Unlike Hindi, Tamil has a wide variety of literature and it doesnot depend on any other language.(Hindi is a language derived from Sanskrit whereas Tamil is one of the broader class of language which is not known for being derived from any other language other than it belonging to Dravidan language).
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PS: I dont hate any language, It is just that I want every language to be in its own place.
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Ggmu!
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(Original post by Nitokrishan)
I don't have too much time on my hands. I had an evening off, I chose to partake in replying to this forum.I use these terms (Aryan,Dravidian) to refer to the people speaking either of the language families. Dravidian language family is ancient. Dravidian languages have rich vocabulary. Dravidian languages are recognised in foreign countries also.

One third of Indian population speaks a dravidian language!
But I am sad that north indians do not even recognize this family or the languages. They simply blabber that sanskrit is the mother of indian languages. If they learn any one of the dravidian languages, they can understand indian history better. Their contribution is great! Effect of dravidian is present all over india. N.I will be able to learn other dravidian languages as well very easily.

Learning dravidian languages has no relation with supporting dravidian parties.
But a common Indian language should arise with more number of root words from dravidian family also. That will lead to united india very sooner.

As a Tamil, I consider myself to be purely Dravidian. I do acknowledge the Aryan-Dravidian divide and I often notice subtle implications in regard to this when people talk about Indian History and traditions. I firmly believe that Dravidians are the original inhabitants of India analogous to the Native Americans of North America. At the same time, I do not have anything against North Indians and I really appreciate the diversity they bring to our country. I don't think any one race has the right to claim ownership of a piece of land solely on the basis of who was there first, after all, the time we have spent on Earth collectively as a race is but a fleeting second in the vast expanse of time and space.




MAP OF TAMIL EXPANSE DURING CHOLA DYNASTY

English has been successfully integrated into Tamil due to the intertwining use of both the languages for decades. During 1970s and 1980s, Tamil youngsters took speaking English as a superior way to impress others and considered it as a fashion. This was supported by movies of MGR and Sivaji where the heroes are shown as highly educated youngsters who converse fluently in English. Even in 1990s, Rajini and Kamal Haasan continued the trend.


In the 1000s of years of Tamil History, Hindi has never ever crossed its path into the Tamil territory. Infact Hindi is a mix of Persian and Sanskrit languages having been heavily influenced by Mughals. The general misconception is that Hindi is a Hindu language.

English has been making inroads into Tamil for the past 150-200 years. Nowadays it has found its way into the households through Tanglish.

Now coming to the main point, in general, Tamils are very conservative. The effect of English into Tamil is result of 300 years of British rule where Tamils found that learning English could help them cope up with the British well and increase their trade and business. But English was "not" imposed upon them. You can see many historical buildings in Chennai named after British rather than Sanskrit or Hindi names.

Tamils have no reason to learn Hindi. Infact, Hindi is useless in Tamil Nadu. Also, they are aware that their language and identity is precious and that the chauvinists from North have their best try to destroy this link and impose Hindi for their vested interests. They are also aware of the advantages of knowing English.


This is why Tamils are more comfortable with English rather that learning a language which has no use or share no roots with our language and our history.

We are better in learning and handling english because of the strong school education we go through. Along with that you get most jobs with the requirement of knowing english. Hindi i am sorry there is no use for us in learning it. It is totally useless here. Let me give you a simple example, i was at chennai airport to go out on a europe trip. I was asked by the north indian security something in hindi. I replied him don't you know english or Tamil he said something in hindi,i complained to a well known higher official immediately. He came there talked to the north guy's head,smiled and went away, this north guy came to me and said sorry for inconvenience. we will never accept hindi. Tamil is in our blood and soul you can not replace it with some odd language. English is a global connecting language. If you want to communicate with a Tamil person speak english or get away. we will not learn hindi to comfort you people.


English gives us jobs and lets us connect to the world which us also you north.
But hindi is good for nothing to learn. This is the mindset of most of our Tamil people.

Hindi is not a Global language.. But English is..

The main reason for not even trying Hindi is history. If you go through the history of India you will probably get the precise reason for not speaking or learning Hindi. Secondly there is no point in learning Hindi as tamil is well enough for everything. Unlike Hindi, Tamil has a wide variety of literature and it doesnot depend on any other language.(Hindi is a language derived from Sanskrit whereas Tamil is one of the broader class of language which is not known for being derived from any other language other than it belonging to Dravidan language).
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PS: I dont hate any language, It is just that I want every language to be in its own place.
I know you're the Tamil guy but for everyone else's sake, so they don't believe everything.

North indians completely recognise the independent south Indian language family and it's beautiful. If they don't it doesn't matter as it's been integrated into international academia.

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Nitokrishan
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(Original post by Ggmu!)
I know you're the Tamil guy but for everyone else's sake, so they don't believe everything.

North indians completely recognise the independent south Indian language family and it's beautiful. If they don't it doesn't matter as it's been integrated into international academia.

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I have reported you for trolling....

Aryan invarion theory is highly debated issue..There are proofs which states they would have come from Central Asia..mean to say Uzbeskitan, and places like that..They rode Ashwa, they spoke Samskritam, and were prodominent warriors, so they could go and attack, the other weaker place, as it is seen even today, the land which were less favorable, because of cold climate, they started looking for more prosperous land, obviously the most fertile lands would be the gangetic plane, rite from Punjab uptill Bengal..they attacked the indigenous people. And may fled..Even in India, south Indians and people in east, i.e. Orissa, bengal are darker..Which points to a attack from west forcing them to flee towards either south or east...North is blocked by Himalaya..At the same time, the aryan traits are prominent in Gujarati, punjabi and Kashmiri..So obviously aryans are outsiders at that point of time, and Dravidians would have been the people who would have been living there..

Even n south we say a caste of SC called as Adi dravida, which means, pre dravidians...which again boils down to fact that they were there in south even before dravidians from North setteled in South......




The Aryan Invasion theory. As a person from the south, it is very clear to me that this is true. Our languages are fundamentally different from those of the north. As we count from 1 to 10 in any of our languages, we immediately realize we are sisters and one and the same. If we consider how a person in Delhi counts 1 to 10, we immediately know that they are foreign and we are able to identify them along the same lines as those in London or Germany. Similarly, if we say "He, She, It, They, This, That, Which, me you, who" in our languages, we know we are sisters. We realize that we say these totally differently from those in the north. So we in the south are one and the same but we are far different from those in the north.

For ease of use, I would use the term “Sanskritans” to the original speakers of Sanskrit. I would call those who speak North Indian languages as “Psuedo Sanskritans”.

Firstly let us agree that South Indians are neither “Sanskritans” nor “Psuedo Sanskritans” (at least linguistically) . If anyone argues that North Indians are not “Psuedo Sanskritans” but they are “pure Sanskritans”, the question arises as to why people in Europe are speaking a language similar to Sanskrit. It could only happen if people were moving to Europe from Northern India either as invaders or as migrants. And we know that “Sanskritans” had their base in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iran and in Punjab. How then people became “Psuedo Sanskritans” specifically in Northern and Eastern India? It is because of invasion, cultural imposition, subjugation, exploitation. By these happenings, it is very easy to make people to lose their identity, their culture, their language. Thus the north and east become “Psuedo Sanskritan”.

You may ask why we (the people of the south) did not become “Psuedo Sanskitans II”? Probably the remoteness could have helped. Sheer numbers could have been a factor also. Living in the hills could have preserved our identity due to some onslaught of invasions and cultural impositions. Hills might have given refuge to our mothers and fathers. But they did receive a fair bit of “Hinduism” without knowing anything. The desire of having to believe in Gods and Goddesses is very powerful. Besides, the Gods could have migrated from place to place as it is happening even today! The Gods could have been migrating from the south to north as well! In a due course of 2000 years, Jesus Christ has migrated to all corners of the world though he was supposed to be king of Jews only! So, the theory that Siva migrated from South Indian civilizations to the north cannot simply be dismissed!

It is very easy for the modern day "sanskritans" and "Psuedo Sanskritans" to understand the Muslem invasion of India, their motive (to loot and convert people), their power, their oppression of people at all levels. I dare to say that "Sanskritans" were nothing different than these, their motive is nothing different, absolutely.

I understand why certain people, mostly in the north, do not believe in the “Aryan Invasion” theory! It is fondly ingrained in their mind about their identity! Consider this: Practically, a Muslim or Christian after, say some 4 generations of conversions may truly and fondly believe that their ancestors came from Arabia or Jerusalem! I myself may be a descendant of a north Indian person 5 or 6 generations ago though I would hate such ancestry! (Who knows, some of our ancestors could have been *******ized by invaders from the north!) For me, my identity as a South Indian speaking a southern language is final and fulfilling.

I finally have to add this: Vedism, Bagawat Gita, Brahmanism are very negative, caste oriented, destructive, subversive, racial, demeaning to fellow humans, oppressive. I wonder why would anyone be wanting to feel attached to this sinful stuff and identify as such.....
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masterridley
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What's the problem? Indians can't into bilingual signs?

Each state should decide on a local language, plus english for intra-communication.

As for the even smaller languages they should hire a translator or something. Problem solved!
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Mpkboy
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Why do Indian people associate so much more with being an Indian than being a human or world citizen or Asian ?"

India is only a 50 odd year old concept. And it's just that, a concept. An idea. India does not have an identity of it's own. There is no Indian language like German or French. There is no single Indian cuisine. Nor there is a single indian culture. India is an amalgamation of different languages and cultures each having a long history and heritage of it's own. ..

Tamilnadu has grown in terms of education, infrastructure, industry and general well beings of people more than any north Indian states without depending on the Central Government aid much. People at the center noticing this developments. Since a regional party is ruling in Tamil nadu and people will never accept any national parties for another century, any ruling party can take Tamilnadu for granted for ever or try to make the state equivalent to other non developed states ruled by them. It appears from the seat sharing bargains.

South Indians have always contributed to the developments of nations abroad and have tremendous exposures in global markets and trends. The Norths have proved themselves a failure by running the country in loss and keeping it under developed. They can not even understand the process of nation building process, they believe in running the show rather than delivering results.

It makes sense to ask for financial freedom and non interference from the center, based on the past developments and the future targets.

In fact, southern Indian states are more orderly and less poverty-filled than northern states like UP. One of the problems with racialist conceptions of reality from outside is that they nearly always make uninformed assumptions. The Dravidian south has better indicators on health, poverty, crime than most northern states if you add the stats of the states together to make a valid comparison.

Now consider the southern part of India, which is now widely regarded as the most progressive and one of the most prosperous parts of the nation.

What would happen if (in a highly unlikely event) the South decided to secede from the Republic of India?

South India is generally defined as the four states of Andhra Pradesh, Karnataka, Kerala and Tamil Nadu, plus the territories of Lakshadweep and Puducherry. On the whole, South India occupies about about one-fifth of India’s total land mass – 250,000 square miles, or roughly the size of France or Afghanistan.

If South India were an independent country -- let’s call it “Dravida” in honor of the original inhabitants who lived on the subcontinent prior to the arrival of the Aryans and were driven southwards -- it would have a population of about 250 million, less than the United States, but greater than Russia, Brazil or Pakistan.

According to a report in DNA-India, the four states of the South contribute 22 percent of India’s national GDP and generate 28 percent of national employment. The region has a GDP of about $300 billion (about the same as Southeast Asian powerhouse Malaysia). Moreover, South India’s GDP is projected to reach $500 billion by 2016 and edge near $650 billion by 2020 (larger than the current economic strength of Switzerland and just below that of Saudi Arabia).

These "Dravida" people would primarily speak Tamil, Telugu, Kannada or Malayalam (instead of Hindi, Bengali or Urdu, which are prevalent in the north). We would be the country with the highest literacy rate in the world. Yay! . I don't believe in India , South India for Dravidians, Khalistan for Sikhs,Pakistan for muslim of Indian decent, Kashmir as a seperate state .

Now finally we are left with Gujarat, Uttar Pradesh, Rajasthan, Madhya Pradesh, Delhi, Haryana and Uttarakhand. These states form a constitution, name themselves something awesome like New India and start a new life.

Narendra Modi becomes Prime Minister for the second term. And they all live happily ever after.
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