Moving to america to do neurosurgery?

I am in my final year at a level and i was wondering what would you need to do if you wanted to be a surgeon in america? What is the best course of action?

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Reply 1

Asklepios

Original post by jaquele

I am in my final year at a level and i was wondering what would you need to do if you wanted to be a surgeon in america? What is the best course of action?

You need to have a medical degree. Essentially you have two options:

A) study Medicine here (MBBS/MBChB degree - 5years), sit the USMLE exam and apply for a neurosurgical residency in the states. This will be the cheaper option for you, but bear in mind it is very competitive to get a residency in America for international graduates and that neurosurgery is probably already very competitive.

B) study medicine in USA - you have to apply for a 4 year "premed" degree. Basically a BSc with specified amounts of biology, chemistry etc. Then apply for a medical degree in America (MD). Possibly easier to get your chosen residency after this route, but there is still a lot of competition for BSc/MD places. Plus uni fees will be extortionate unless you get a scholarship/bursary.

If I were you, would probably go for option A.

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(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 2

jaquele

Original post by Asklepios

Thanks so much, i would thumbs up your post but I've reached my limit today lol. Thanks

Reply 3

Democracy

Honestly I think your chances of getting into a competitive specialty like that as an IMG in America (because that's what you'll be with a British degree) are almost nil.

Happy to be corrected if I'm wrong though...

Reply 4

jaquele

Original post by Democracy

Thats what i am scared about, i just don't want to be stuck in the uk(i hate it here). Any suggestions on how to stand out against native applicants?

Reply 5

Asklepios

Original post by jaquele

Thats what i am scared about, i just don't want to be stuck in the uk(i hate it here). Any suggestions on how to stand out against native applicants?

That's the harsh reality. America is tough to move to, but it is possible if you beast the MLE (don't worry about that now though). Australia/New Zealand are much more popular and feasible destinations for UK medical graduates, so that's another option if you just want to get out of here.

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Reply 6

jaquele

Original post by Asklepios

i do like the weather in australia, but not only am i scared about the spiders (sydney funnel webs-ugh) but america has a fun, happy albeit superficial culture. Plus my auntie lives there and i would love to live near her(in california). Yep they are stupid reasons but the money is amazing too compared to other places. Its a conundrum. :frown:

Reply 7

pgreg1

its not impossible, someone from my uni aced the UMSLE whilst still at medical school, the score he got meant that he could have got into any speciality (neurosurgery, plastic surgery etc.) ... albeit he did about 6 hours of revision a day

Reply 8

Okorange

Original post by pgreg1

It actually doesn't mean that you can get anything you want. Neurosurgery is competitive in the US, unless you are truly amazing you won't be able to get into residency in the US.

However, there are people who have gone into competitive residencies in the US but they had an MD PhD and were incredibly involved outside of medical school on top of that they also likely had amazing USMLE scores.

Option A is better because you probably won't end up liking neurosurgery anyways and it is definitely doable to go to the US if you have good USMLE scores in a less competitive specialty.

Reply 9

nexttime

Original post by Okorange

Option A is better because you probably won't end up liking neurosurgery anyways...

Yep - by far the most likely and beneficial scenario.

Reply 10

harryflashman

Has there been some sort of TV program on recently featuring completely unrealistic and extremely glamorous depictions of neurosurgery?! Just curious as every time I check TSR there seems to be new threads about people professing a serious ambition to become a neurologist/neuroscientist/neurosurgeon yet often having absolutely no clue about it. Is there some new show with a Dr House style brain surgeon or something?

And when did Plastics lose it's crown as the #1 most glamorous medical specialty everyone naively thinks they'll go into?!?

Reply 11

Okorange

Original post by harryflashman

I probably talked to about 6 or 7 early medical students and "pre-meds" who profess an interest in neurosurgery.

Most of them will decide against it at some point. They really don't know much about neurosurgery and when they hear/experience the cons they often decide against it.

I know one person who did a bit of neurological research and now thinks shes going to become a neurosurgeon. Eventually she'll probably figure out that the long training years, the long hours, poor outcomes and unfriendly nature of the speciality will wear her out and decide against it. Of course theres a small small chance that she will end up going into that field, but when she has not experienced any other fields whatsoever, it seems incredibly unlikely she actually is interested in neurosurgery, most likely just the popular portrayal of it.

The closer you actually get to declaring a speciality the more factors like "whether or not you will enjoy the job", "personality type", "working hours", "pay", "training time" and real life considerations start playing a role and the less factors like prestige and "whether or not the name sounds cool" play a role.

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 12

harryflashman

Original post by Okorange

So it's not just me noticing a trend then....

Contrary to the... err... 'enthusiastic' reply above, I was actually being serious. Sure, the specialty is always going to be more romanticised/glamorised than, say, ENT, (whole 'brain surgeon' thing) but it does seem to have gotten a little popularity boost recently - albeit very confused and muddled 'neurosurgery=neurology' opinions.

Original post by Okorange

I know one person who did a bit of neurological research and now thinks shes going to become a neurosurgeon. Eventually she'll probably figure out that the long training years, the long hours, poor outcomes and unfriendly nature of the speciality will wear her out and decide against it. Of course theres a small small chance that she will end up going into that field, but when she has not experienced any other fields whatsoever, it seems incredibly unlikely she actually is interested in neurosurgery, most likely just the popular portrayal of it.

The closer you actually get to declaring a speciality the more factors like "whether or not you will enjoy the job", "personality type", "working hours", "pay", "training time" and real life considerations start playing a role and the less factors like prestige and "whether or not the name sounds cool" play a role.

Definitely agree! I'm a mature/grad medic - there's downsides to that, but one of the big pluses is having already gained an insight into the sort of working environment you want / can survive in. I've always advocated choosing a specialty back to front (from a younger person's perspective...). It's a lot better to think of the sort of working life you want, the people you want to work with, the family life you want, etc etc, and then look at specialties fitting that profile... than it is to pick a specialty based on some random experience on placement, because scrubs look cool, because you haven't started CV building and you're 3rd yr already and you did a project in X, and trying to shoe-horn that specialties lifestyle in your own. A miserable life, divorce, and children who don't recognise you awaits you down that path! haha.

I'd love to go into neurosurgery. A lot of it really fits the bill for me - and it's run through too as a cherry on the cake (just how good must it feel to bag ST1 neurosurgery?!). BUT... you only have to look at the competition ratios and the associated lifestyle to realise that it's no walk in the park.

Reply 13

Helenia

I'd love all those neurosurgery keen beans to come and spend a week with me on the Neuro ICU where I currently work, and see how many are still keen after that.

I think neurosurgery sounds "better" to applicants than plastics because it has the whole "hero" aspect to it - chopping out brain tumours etc - while with plastics, although the cosmetic side is glamorous, a)most plastics work isn't actually cosmetics (and is technically WAY more impressive than a good pair of boobs!) b)most medical applicants do have a fair amount of altruism and aren't solely fuelled by money. Plenty of people have naive ideas of what specialty they'd like to do before they've really experienced any, it's just that neuro seems to be trendy at the moment.

Reply 14

harryflashman

Original post by Helenia

I'd love all those neurosurgery keen beans to come and spend a week with me on the Neuro ICU where I currently work, and see how many are still keen after that.

A friend of a friend was doing the same job - he had a few stern words about my interests in motorcycles after doing that job! Tough job.

Original post by Helenia

I think neurosurgery sounds "better" to applicants than plastics because it has the whole "hero" aspect to it - chopping out brain tumours etc - while with plastics, although the cosmetic side is glamorous, a)most plastics work isn't actually cosmetics (and is technically WAY more impressive than a good pair of boobs!) b)most medical applicants do have a fair amount of altruism and aren't solely fuelled by money. Plenty of people have naive ideas of what specialty they'd like to do before they've really experienced any, it's just that neuro seems to be trendy at the moment.

Strange thing is that some of the really cool reconstructive stuff in plastics never gets mention - which is far more 'hero' than much of neurosurgery. Perhaps it's just that people associate plastics with cosmetic surgery rather things like hand surgery, reconstructive, burns.. Which is a shame as it misrepresents an awesome speciality.

I think you may have hit the nail on the head with the altruism / money thing. It may just be a shift in perception over time... A couple of decades ago, mention the word surgeon and people would imagine a plastic surgeon and cosmetic surgery. These days TV is all about trauma this trauma that.

Reply 15

Asklepios

JD > Turk

But yes I agree "Neuro" adds a level of complexity and fascination, and "surgery" probably gets more rep as being the "most skilled," surprised shows like House hasn't created more wannabe physicians

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(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 16