Davij038
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1: Libertarians are opposed to border controls and support freedom of movement

2: Ukip is pro monarchy, which is paid for undemocratically by the people.

3: Mr farage and much of ukip want to bring back "Judaeo Christian values" to the UK

4: it is clear that if the uk came out of the EU Scotland would certainly leave the uk as could Wales

5: what would ukip do in the event of the uk voting to stay in Europe?

what's more by wanting to destroy the EU it is likely in its place will be parties like national front and golden dawn that will plunge Europe into far worse chaos economically.
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Kittiara
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I don't think UKIP have any real plans, not if we were to leave the EU, nor if we were to stay. Their manifesto keeps on changing and all I can make out, really, is that they favour corporate interests as much as the Tories and Labour do.

So yeah, I don't think that you're going to find any real answers to your questions...
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username1524603
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(Original post by Davij038)
1: Libertarians are opposed to border controls and support freedom of movement

2: Ukip is pro monarchy, which is paid for undemocratically by the people.

3: Mr farage and much of ukip want to bring back "Judaeo Christian values" to the UK

4: it is clear that if the uk came out of the EU Scotland would certainly leave the uk as could Wales

5: what would ukip do in the event of the uk voting to stay in Europe?

what's more by wanting to destroy the EU it is likely in its place will be parties like national front and golden dawn that will plunge Europe into far worse chaos economically.
1. UKIP has never been a Libertarian party. Some stances are but the vast majority is slightly authoritarian.

2. Considering the Republican group reports the Royal Family costs Britain £200m per year, but VisitBritain reports the Royal Family generates £500m per year for Britain the long argument over the worth continues. Both have vested interest so the figure is bound to be somewhere in the middle. Let the debate over their worth continue.

3. No, Farage and UKIP want socially Conservative values. They have similarities but are quite different.

4. There are debates to be had over the benefit of the EU on both Scotland and Wales; on the UK too. If Scotland then choose to leave in a post-EU Britain that will be their decision. I do not support remaining in the EU to keep Scotland happy.

5. If the referendum ends up with the UK staying in the UK we will respect the result but remain as a Eurosceptic party. The SNP haven't suddenly collapsed, they continue to fight but have dropped the pro-independence message for a generation at least. It would be business as usual but a UKIP government wouldn't be bending over backwards to keep Brussels happy.

6. UKIP believe the EU is not fit for purpose. UKIP does not want a Europe of divided countries but a Europe of countries freely trading with close relations; the EU when it first came about. In a post-EU world relations with our former colonies and Commonwealth countries are preferable. The current Anglosphere is not appreciated enough, and what it could become has not been explored or pushed for. Closer relations on all levels in an Anglosphere will be easier due to common cultures and histories.
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Davij038
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(Original post by Nigel Farage MEP)
1. UKIP has never been a Libertarian party. Some stances are but the vast majority is slightly authoritarian.

2. Considering the Republican group reports the Royal Family costs Britain £200m per year, but VisitBritain reports the Royal Family generates £500m per year for Britain the long argument over the worth continues. Both have vested interest so the figure is bound to be somewhere in the middle. Let the debate over their worth continue.

3. No, Farage and UKIP want socially Conservative values. They have similarities but are quite different.

4. There are debates to be had over the benefit of the EU on both Scotland and Wales; on the UK too. If Scotland then choose to leave in a post-EU Britain that will be their decision. I do not support remaining in the EU to keep Scotland happy.

5. If the referendum ends up with the UK staying in the UK we will respect the result but remain as a Eurosceptic party. The SNP haven't suddenly collapsed, they continue to fight but have dropped the pro-independence message for a generation at least. It would be business as usual but a UKIP government wouldn't be bending over backwards to keep Brussels happy.

6. UKIP believe the EU is not fit for purpose. UKIP does not want a Europe of divided countries but a Europe of countries freely trading with close relations; the EU when it first came about. In a post-EU world relations with our former colonies and Commonwealth countries are preferable. The current Anglosphere is not appreciated enough, and what it could become has not been explored or pushed for. Closer relations on all levels in an Anglosphere will be easier due to common cultures and histories.
Thank you for your informative reply. You say you would be prepared to let Scotland (and potentially Wales) go to get out of the EU, would that not result in significant political and economic fallout? Additionally, if the uk wishes to opt out of the EU but continue trading (like Switzerland and Norway) do you not accept that you would have to accept EU laws as those countries still do?

if not then do you think that england alone would be able to prosper?Much like how the uk would act to an independent Scotland I cannot see the EU acting favourably towards us.
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Wellzi
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(Original post by Davij038)
Thank you for your informative reply. You say you would be prepared to let Scotland (and potentially Wales) go to get out of the EU, would that not result in significant political and economic fallout? Additionally, if the uk wishes to opt out of the EU but continue trading (like Switzerland and Norway) do you not accept that you would have to accept EU laws as those countries still do?

if not then do you think that england alone would be able to prosper?Much like how the uk would act to an independent Scotland I cannot see the EU acting favourably towards us.
No, we wouldn't keep EU laws at all, that's part of the reason for leaving. As we are a much larger country, the EU would do itself just as much damage if it refused a free trade agreement with us, it's a level playing field.

And there's no chance in hell of Wales leaving the union, so it's not worth considering. I also doubt Scotland will be going anywhere anytime soon
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tyroncs
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(Original post by Davij038)
Thank you for your informative reply. You say you would be prepared to let Scotland (and potentially Wales) go to get out of the EU, would that not result in significant political and economic fallout? Additionally, if the uk wishes to opt out of the EU but continue trading (like Switzerland and Norway) do you not accept that you would have to accept EU laws as those countries still do?

if not then do you think that england alone would be able to prosper?Much like how the uk would act to an independent Scotland I cannot see the EU acting favourably towards us.
Although Scotland may leave the UK if we left the EU, Wales never would. It is 97% against independence and UKIP is predicted to be the second biggest party in the Welsh Assembly, ahead of the nationalist Pluid Cymru party which doesn't even have independence on its manifesto anymore.

The EU will act favourably towards us quite simply because it is in it's own interests to. Remember when we were told we would lose 3 million jobs? If that ever happened (which it won't) the EU would lose 4 million jobs. This is because we are the largest trading partner of the EU and they sell more to us then we sell to them. To those who say we wouldn't get a free trade agreement, that is plain wrong. Article 50 of the Lisbon treaty says the EU has to get a free trade agreement with countries who leave as well as the fact there is only one country in mainland Europe the EU doesn't have a free trade deal with and that is Belarus - literally a dictatorship.

We would only have to accept EU laws when trading with the EU. This is the same for any country in the world trading with the EU, so naturally UKIP accepts this.
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Davij038
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(Original post by Wellzi)
No, we wouldn't keep EU laws at all, that's part of the reason for leaving. As we are a much larger country, the EU would do itself just as much damage if it refused a free trade agreement with us, it's a level playing field.

And there's no chance in hell of Wales leaving the union, so it's not worth considering. I also doubt Scotland will be going anywhere anytime soon
The SnP own Scotland now, they would go. If that happens it would lead to far greater credibility to plaid Cymru .

If the Uk did not obey the EUs rules they would punish us, they have shown with Russia they are prepared to take a stand. They're not that dependant on us.
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username1524603
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(Original post by Davij038)
Thank you for your informative reply. You say you would be prepared to let Scotland (and potentially Wales) go to get out of the EU, would that not result in significant political and economic fallout? Additionally, if the uk wishes to opt out of the EU but continue trading (like Switzerland and Norway) do you not accept that you would have to accept EU laws as those countries still do?

if not then do you think that england alone would be able to prosper?Much like how the uk would act to an independent Scotland I cannot see the EU acting favourably towards us.
If the way the UK is funded changed I believe Scotland and Wales would be happier with a new deal, limiting potential fall out. I favour income tax funded national governments or per-capita funded regional governments. Parliament sets the rate but all income tax in Wales goes to the Welsh Assembly and all income tax in Scotland to the Scottish government. All other taxes, apart from Council Tax, go to Parliament. Top ups can be issued for use in highly deprived areas of Wales or Scotland on a case by case basis. As a side point to this, I feel regional governments can better manage the needs of the UK. Using Wales as an example, the needs of Cardiff are completely different to the needs of a rural Welsh ex-mining town in North Wales. The West Midlands can be drawn in with part of Wales where the problems being faced in old industrial towns are similar. Where to draw the regions, and how to impalement it is a new debate, I have not given it much thought past the initial concept stage yet.

When we trade with the USA or China we must abide by the laws but have no say over them. Norway and Switzerland are at least invited to the negotiation table but do not have a vote, although Norway does have a veto in certain circumstances. The biggest benefit comes for the small businesses who do not trade with the EU. It is perfectly fair for those businesses who trade in Britain to apply with British regulation and not EU regulation. The big multi-national conglomerates will continue to trade overseas. Most multi-national companies use maximum standards choosing to meet the highest bar in all markets to keep production and operation costs low. They are not usually affected hugely by EU legislation.

The EU punish Russia as their economies are not interlinked as much as internal EU economies are. Apart from gas, which the EU is looking to reduce demand of from Russia, not much else remains as an economic bridge. The same can't be said for the UK though. If we imagine a world where the EU decides to punish Britain for not abiding by rules, Britain could limit EU imports. Britain's biggest trading partner is the EU (45%), with a £75bn deficit of trade, not buying EU products will hurt the EU more. Bearing in mind Britain's biggest trading partner in the EU is Germany, sanctions on Britain will hurt Germany. Thinking of a hypothetical political situation, the EU will use some harsh words but in the end Merkel will use under-the-table politics to prevent sanctions while publicly criticising Britain. However, all of this is speculation, I believe Britain as a net contributor to the EU will start the EU's collapse if we leave, the EU countries can then go back to a trade agreement with some collaboration as was advertised in the 70's.

The big point to take home from this is UKIP is not a bunch of politically illiterate dreamers wanting to take the UK into some 1950's world with no international trade, no foreign relations with any countries, and no immigration. UKIP has a clear image for the UK strengthening links with the Commonwealth, especially Australia, Canada and New Zealand where history and culture is similar, while retaining close relations with our European neighbors centered around trade which will serve Britain better than being a minor voice in a political super state.
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Wellzi
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(Original post by Davij038)
The SDP own Scotland now, they would go. If that happens it would lead to far greater credibility to plaid Cymru .

If the Uk did not obey the EUs rules they would punish us, they have shown with Russia they are prepared to take a stand. They're not that dependant on us.
We wouldn't have to follow EU laws, or perhaps economic ones, but that's different.

And are you seriously implying that Russia will do what the EU says? You're mental
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tyroncs
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(Original post by Davij038)
The SDP own Scotland now, they would go. If that happens it would lead to far greater credibility to plaid Cymru .

If the Uk did not obey the EUs rules they would punish us, they have shown with Russia they are prepared to take a stand. They're not that dependant on us.
It will be extremely hard to sway a 97% No vote in favour of a nationalist party which UKIP is ahead of in polls anyway, even if Scotland did leave.

Your point on the EU 'punishing us' is ridiculous. They are punishing Russia as they invaded another country. And they are very dependent on us, our trade with them is worth 4 million jobs on their side. In a Europe of recession and austerity, are they really going to risk that for a show of power against a country which is their largest trading partner?
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Davij038
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(Original post by Wellzi)
And are you seriously implying that Russia will do what the EU says? You're mental
It looks like Putin is, the sanctions are crippling them. Putin knows he isn't strong enough and I am confident that there will be a resolution to Ukraine with Russia backing down.
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Jammy Duel
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(Original post by Davij038)
It looks like Putin is, the sanctions are crippling them. Putin knows he isn't strong enough and I am confident that there will be a resolution to Ukraine with Russia backing down.
Have you listened to, or read about, any of his speeches recently? He's very much taking the US approach of "nobody can tell us what to do, we're a ****ing superpower".
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Wellzi
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(Original post by Davij038)
It looks like Putin is, the sanctions are crippling them. Putin knows he isn't strong enough and I am confident that there will be a resolution to Ukraine with Russia backing down.
Putin won't back down, and if the sanctions do cripple the economy, then the Communist Party will probably get back in power, and that's bad for us all.

And your earlier point about the SNP owning Scotland, well we'll see at the election next year, and they won't get as many seats as people think. People will be more interested in getting labour in charge than throwing away a protest vote to the SNP
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democracyforum
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(Original post by Davij038)

1: Libertarians are opposed to border controls and support freedom of movement
Not every UKIp member is a libertarian. they are a diverse bunch

(Original post by Davij038)

2: Ukip is pro monarchy, which is paid for undemocratically by the people.
Some ukip members are pro monarchy. some are not.

(Original post by Davij038)

3: Mr farage and much of ukip want to bring back "Judaeo Christian values" to the UK
Only in response to the rise of Islam and the decadent slob/sloth society we are heading into

(Original post by Davij038)
4: it is clear that if the uk came out of the EU Scotland would certainly leave the uk as could Wales
Maybe.

(Original post by Davij038)
5: what would ukip do in the event of the uk voting to stay in Europe?
probably get even more extreme and start rioting.

I actually don't believe in a referendum. I honestly think the EU will naturally collapse and fall apart and we will just simply leave.

Also, we will never get a (rigged) referendum

(Original post by Davij038)

what's more by wanting to destroy the EU it is likely in its place will be parties like national front and golden dawn that will plunge Europe into far worse chaos economically.

but if you believe in democracy, then whoever people vote for comes to power.

unless you don't believe in democracy ?
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Davij038
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(Original post by democracyforum)

but if you believe in democracy, then whoever people vote for comes to power.

unless you don't believe in democracy ?
I believe in democracy to an extent I'm just not sure a referendum is what this country really needs right now.

By an extent I mean they can be harmful: look at Mills tyranny of the majority or Rousseau's General will.
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democracyforum
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(Original post by Davij038)
I believe in democracy to an extent I'm just not sure a referendum is what this country really needs right now.

By an extent I mean they can be harmful: look at Mills tyranny of the majority or Rousseau's General will.
The EU is the most obnoxious, undemocratic organisation possible.
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Jammy Duel
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(Original post by democracyforum)
The EU is the most obnoxious, undemocratic organisation possible.
What about a dictatorship?
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Davij038
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(Original post by democracyforum)
The EU is the most obnoxious, undemocratic organisation possible.
Yes those evil bureaucrats are far worse than life under the Taliban or the USSR...
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SHallowvale
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(Original post by Nigel Farage MEP)
1. UKIP has never been a Libertarian party. Some stances are but the vast majority is slightly authoritarian.

2. Considering the Republican group reports the Royal Family costs Britain £200m per year, but VisitBritain reports the Royal Family generates £500m per year for Britain the long argument over the worth continues. Both have vested interest so the figure is bound to be somewhere in the middle. Let the debate over their worth continue.

3. No, Farage and UKIP want socially Conservative values. They have similarities but are quite different.

4. There are debates to be had over the benefit of the EU on both Scotland and Wales; on the UK too. If Scotland then choose to leave in a post-EU Britain that will be their decision. I do not support remaining in the EU to keep Scotland happy.

5. If the referendum ends up with the UK staying in the UK we will respect the result but remain as a Eurosceptic party. The SNP haven't suddenly collapsed, they continue to fight but have dropped the pro-independence message for a generation at least. It would be business as usual but a UKIP government wouldn't be bending over backwards to keep Brussels happy.

6. UKIP believe the EU is not fit for purpose. UKIP does not want a Europe of divided countries but a Europe of countries freely trading with close relations; the EU when it first came about. In a post-EU world relations with our former colonies and Commonwealth countries are preferable. The current Anglosphere is not appreciated enough, and what it could become has not been explored or pushed for. Closer relations on all levels in an Anglosphere will be easier due to common cultures and histories.
1. Wrong, UKIP are a libertarian party. In their own constitution it reads, ''The Party is a democratic, libertarian Party'': http://www.ukip.org/the_constitution. Nigel Farage has also had get togethers with libertarian speakers in the US, such as Ron Paul: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6tBY_9R9fc.

Are UKIP lying when they say they are libertarian or are they too incompetent to realise that they are not actually libertarian?

2. Correction: The Tower of London, Windsor Castle and Buckingham Palace generate £500 million a year. You don't need the Royal Family in any position of power in order to make that.

Regardless of whether or not the Royal Family does generate a lot of money, support for the Royal Family still contradicts the stance that UKIP has on democracy. In other words they'll champion democracy whenever it suits them.

3. Wrong, Nigel Farage himself said: ''My country is a Judeo-Christian country ... so we gotta start standing up for our values'': https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tSWc5BrGxY (Skip to 3 minutes in).

Plus I'm not too keen on socially conservative values either.

(Original post by democracyforum)
The EU is the most obnoxious, undemocratic organisation possible.
How?

(Original post by Wellzi)
No, we wouldn't keep EU laws at all, that's part of the reason for leaving. As we are a much larger country, the EU would do itself just as much damage if it refused a free trade agreement with us, it's a level playing field.
Not necessarily.

Since the UK is smaller than the EU, the EU would be put in a better position as it would have access to the larger market. To clarify, EU member states could still trade with eachother or with states with existing FTAs with the EU (such as Norway, South Korea or Mexico).

Businesses that once promoted their goods in the UK would still have a large free market to work with and thus could find alternative places to trade with. It would be harder for us to trade with others since we'd be outside of FTAs. Hence we'd be put in a weaker position.
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n00
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....
Any idea what their drug policy is?
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