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    Well Europe is expanding and there are even talks of making a European super army. Maybe not in the near future, do you think there could be a cold war again? This time USA against EU. Europe has biggest trading block in the world with 450 million people. As time goes by, our states will want US bases closed down and Europe will concentrate more with our own military technology and other economical aspects.

    Before the war in Iraq there was a insult war with USA and France, could it be in 50 years time or so, USA insults one of our countries it insults our Europe? It would be a political breakdown like USA had with USSR.

    The reality is that USA has its days numbered as the sole superpower, EU is coming strong and might take the crown in the far future, once you been on top, no one likes to be second and there is where the tensions start.
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    (Original post by Saintsin)
    Well Europe is expanding and there are even talks of making a European super army. Maybe not in the near future, do you think there could be a cold war again? This time USA against EU. Europe has biggest trading block in the world with 450 million people. As time goes by, our states will want US bases closed down and Europe will concentrate more with our own military technology and other economical aspects.

    Before the war in Iraq there was a insult war with USA and France, could it be in 50 years time or so, USA insults one of our countries it insults our Europe? It would be a political breakdown like USA had with USSR.

    The reality is that USA has its days numbered as the sole superpower, EU is coming strong and might take the crown in the far future, once you been on top, no one likes to be second and there is where the tensions start.

    No there wont be - it costs too much and trade needs peace between the nations - thats one of the great things about globalisation (despite its problems) it prevents wars.
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    There is way, way way more that unifies Europe with the US than what divides us. Any European 'super-army' would still be no match for the US army. Our defence policy is still, to a large extent, reliant of the US, as the US is our defence. Any apparant divisions stemming from the Iraq war are insignificant compared to what unifies us politically, socially and economically. Also, the new countries recently welcomed into the EU would view any rift with the US as completely counter-productive as they for the last 15/20 years have been yearning for Western acceptance. To go to war with the US would be a very strange way of accomplishing this dream!

    China, however, is a different story...
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    (Original post by kingslaw)
    There is way, way way more that unifies Europe with the US than what divides us. Any European 'super-army' would still be no match for the US army. Our defence policy is still, to a large extent, reliant of the US, as the US is our defence. Any apparant divisions stemming from the Iraq war are insignificant compared to what unifies us politically, socially and economically. Also, the new countries recently welcomed into the EU would view any rift with the US as completely counter-productive as they for the last 15/20 years have been yearning for Western acceptance. To go to war with the US would be a very strange way of accomplishing this dream!

    China, however, is a different story...

    Large scale wars between large nation states is VERY unlikely these days - it benefits no one ... people want to make money not fight - most fights are in the WTO...

    Materialism at its wonderful best
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    (Original post by Lawzzzzzz)
    Large scale wars between large nation states is VERY unlikely these days - it benefits no one ... people want to make money not fight - most fights are in the WTO...

    Materialism at its wonderful best

    If the US wished to make money out of another country, it would need to secure that countries markets and would require stability in order to gain economically from the territory. If another superpower had the ability to prevent the US from doing this (of which none exists at the moment) and was able to secure the territory for its own economic advantages, then war (whether large scale or not) could escalate.
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    (Original post by kingslaw)
    If the US wished to make money out of another country, it would need to secure that countries markets and would require stability in order to gain economically from the territory. If another superpower had the ability to prevent the US from doing this (of which none exists at the moment) and was able to secure the territory for its own economic advantages, then war (whether large scale or not) could escalate.
    This seems theoretically sound - however what you are referring to is price and trade wars .... a MILITARY conflict or cold war with massive arms build up and division of markets would be detrimental to both sides .
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    The Cold War was a war between two contrasting ideologies. It was a battle between Communism and Capitalism.

    So no, I can't see EU v US becoming anything comparable to the West v USSR.
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    (Original post by Tednol)
    The Cold War was a war between two contrasting ideologies. It was a battle between Communism and Capitalism.

    So no, I can't see EU v US becoming anything comparable to the West v USSR.
    well the EU have p'd the US off a few times with sanctions (or threat of) and now the anti-trust case with MS... it's going to war not in the military sense but imperialism by large firms O_o


    i can see it happening and the uk is being torn apart by it...
    the uk needs the EU but it also needs the US and it can't have both ¬_¬
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    (Original post by operato)
    the uk needs the EU but it also needs the US and it can't have both ¬_¬
    I'm not sure I agree with that comment. We have the culture (socially and economically) to allow close access to the US. And we have the geography to allow close access to the EU. We can have our cake and eat it!
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    (Original post by Tednol)
    I'm not sure I agree with that comment. We have the culture (socially and economically) to allow close access to the US. And we have the geography to allow close access to the EU. We can have our cake and eat it!
    if we go with the US we get EU exclusion... if we go with the EU we get US exclusion... the EU constitution etc...
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    (Original post by operato)
    well the EU have p'd the US off a few times with sanctions (or threat of) and now the anti-trust case with MS... it's going to war not in the military sense but imperialism by large firms O_o


    i can see it happening and the uk is being torn apart by it...
    the uk needs the EU but it also needs the US and it can't have both ¬_¬

    The Anti trust against MS was pursued by the US government itself!
    Also - there are always commerce and trade spats - but the EU and US are WAY too important to each other to ostrasize themselves from their markets and good graces

    I dont see why the UK cant have it both ways... many countries have such relationships with two groups
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    (Original post by operato)
    if we go with the US we get EU exclusion... if we go with the EU we get US exclusion... the EU constitution etc...
    I don't think the door is closed to us having close economic, but non-political ties with the EU. Equally, I think we can have close economic and political ties to the US of A.
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    (Original post by Lawzzzzzz)
    The Anti trust against MS was pursued by the US government itself!
    Also - there are always commerce and trade spats - but the EU and US are WAY too important to each other to ostrasize themselves from their markets and good graces

    I dont see why the UK cant have it both ways... many countries have such relationships with two groups
    anti-trust laws in US and the EU are totally different. the case in the eu was about media player. people are silly in that if someone hits you, you hit them back and it's been shown for the tariffs imposed on eu steel, the eu would put tariffs on california's oranges... and bush would need to keep them happy if he wants to stay in office.
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    (Original post by Tednol)
    I don't think the door is closed to us having close economic, but non-political ties with the EU. Equally, I think we can have close economic and political ties to the US of A.
    it's just if we don't accept things such as the euro if would mean we were only half in and out of the eu and you can't have that. that would mean the eu would cease to function. we have to jump in one way or another and if we don't comply with eu fully we would then be left excluded.
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    (Original post by operato)
    it's just if we don't accept things such as the euro if would mean we were only half in and out of the eu and you can't have that. that would mean the eu would cease to function. we have to jump in one way or another and if we don't comply with eu fully we would then be left excluded.

    I dont see how having the Euro rather than the pound affects the UKs relationship with the US - its not like we have the dollar
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    (Original post by Lawzzzzzz)
    I dont see how having the Euro rather than the pound affects the UKs relationship with the US - its not like we have the dollar
    i'm not just saying the euro, i mean everything else that comes to being an EU member.
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    (Original post by operato)
    it's just if we don't accept things such as the euro if would mean we were only half in and out of the eu and you can't have that. that would mean the eu would cease to function. we have to jump in one way or another and if we don't comply with eu fully we would then be left excluded.
    There is no evidence to suggest we can't be a non-political member of the EU.
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    (Original post by Tednol)
    There is no evidence to suggest we can't be a non-political member of the EU.
    well if that's the case then it'd be the collapse of the EU as no one would be fully committed to the EU.
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    (Original post by operato)
    well if that's the case then it'd be the collapse of the EU as no one would be fully committed to the EU.
    The UN hasn't collapsed and there are certainly countries more and less committed to that.
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    (Original post by Tednol)
    The UN hasn't collapsed and there are certainly countries more and less committed to that.
    that maybe the case but the EU is different in that it wants countrise to become one state whereas the UN is just a collective of seperate countries.
 
 
 
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