Stupid French Subjunctive

What is with the subjunctive??I can't seem to grasp it. Know how to form it, but when do you use it???C'est impossible!! Ne1 know??? :p:

Reply 1

kellywood_5

There are certain expressions that always take the subjunctive. They tend to express emotion such as doubt or hope, eg ne penser pas que, regretter que, desirer que, vouloir que, preferer que etc. There should be a definitive list somewhere on the Internet or in a good grammar book if you have one.

Reply 2

Manatee

wesetters

il faut que...bien que...croire que...

Just to avoid any confusion - "croire que" takes the subjunctive only when it's used in the negative or the interrogative sense, e.g. "je ne crois pas qu'il soit venu"/"crois-tu qu'il l'ait fait?".

In other circumstances, "croire que" (and similar expressions) take the indicative, e.g. "je crois qu'il viendra".

:smile:

Reply 3

kellywood_5

wesetters

il faut que...bien que...

Can't believe I forgot those 2!! Methinks I've not done French for too long :p:

Reply 4

Carl

You'll pick it up if you speak it alot. I use the subjunctive instinctively when I speak now, although I forget from time to time when writing.

Reply 5

À la folie, pas du tout

Manatee

just what i was about to say!

Reply 6

À la folie, pas du tout

Carl

You'll pick it up if you speak it alot. I use the subjunctive instinctively when I speak now, although I forget from time to time when writing.

i didn't realise it was still really used in spoken french anymore?

Reply 7

Carl

xx Bex

i didn't realise it was still really used in spoken french anymore?

it is, and reasonably often. I haven't yet learnt to avoid it.

Reply 8

quintsy

Carl

it is, and reasonably often. I haven't yet learnt to avoid it.

Tips to avoid the subjunctive. :smile:

Reply 9

quintsy

wesetters

That's laziness. Far better to learn it properly.

Indeed, but I meant because Carl mentioned about avoiding it.

Reply 10

FrenchGal

Don't worry, even French people don't get it right sometimes :p:

The subjunctive that we avoid all the time is the "imparfait du subjonctif", as in "encore eut-il fallu que nous le fussions", we usually say encore eut-il fallu que nous le soyons", using a present subjunctive instead of a past one, because it is really difficult and sounds quite posh and old fashioned.

Reply 11

MarcosJr

FrenchGal

Don't worry, even French people don't get it right sometimes :p:

thanks man for that information! I penalize myself cuz I don´t get the subjunctive at all..

feel better now =)

Reply 12

Piggsil

The best thing to do is try and learn the definitive list....a bit boring I know, but it makes it easier and you don't have to look stuff up as often. The more often you use it, the more naturally it will come to you. :smile:

Reply 13

generalebriety

xx Bex

i didn't realise it was still really used in spoken french anymore?

Yeah, it's just a normal tense like any other. The imperfect subjunctive isn't really used because you sound a bit posh and old saying it.

Edit: of course, the subjunctive isn't a tense at all, I meant the present subjunctive. :p:

Reply 14

Half MT

it is a technically a "mood" rather than a tense. Don;t ask me what the term mood means in this context though. Thats what it is called here at Uni,and in all grammar texts.

Reply 15

Lottie

From my notes:

The Subjunctive Mood: This mood expresses doubt, uncertainty, mere possibility and subjective impressions and feelings.

There are two tenses of the subjunctive in everyday use in modern day France: (1) the present subjunctive and (2) the perfect subjunctive.

(1) The Present Subjunctive (comes from "ils" present indicative)

regarder --> ~~ils~~ regard~~ent~~
je regarde
tu regardes
il regarde
nous regardions
vous regardiez
ils regardent

finir --> ~~ils~~ finiss~~ent~~
je finisse
tu finisses
il finisses
nous finissions
vous finissiez
ils finissent

vendre --> ~~ils~~ vend~~ent~~
je vende
tu vendes
il vende
nous vendions
vous vendiez
ils vendent

Aller
j'aille
tu ailles
il aille
nous allions
vous alliez
ils aillent

Avoir
j'aie
tu aies
il ait
nous ayons
vous ayez
ils aient

Être
je sois
tu sois
il soit
nous soyons
vous soyez
ils soient

Faire
je fasse
tu fasses
il fasse
nous fassions
vous fassiez
ils fassent

Pouvoir
je puisse
tu puisses
il puisse
nous puissions
vous puissiez
ils puissent

Savoir
je sache
tu saches
il sache
nous sachions
vous sachiez
ils sachent

Voulour
je veuille
tu veuilles
il veuille
nous voulions
vous vouliez
ils veuillent

Falloir
il faille

(2) The Perfect Subjunctive: this is a mixture of the present subjunctive of avoir/être and the past participle.
e.g. (i) finir --> j'aie fini
e.g. (ii) arriver -> je sois arrivé(e)

Reply 16

Lottie

APOLOGIES FOR ANY ERRORS IN TYPING OR THE VERACITY OF MY NOTES!
Present subjunctive - is/am/are/was/were
Perfect subjunctive - has/had

Sequence of tenses
1. I am sorry that he is leaving
Je suis désolé(e) qu'il parte.

2. I am sorry that he has left.
Je regrette qu'il soit parti.

3. I was sorry that he was leaving.
J'étais désolé(e) qu'il parte.

4. I was sorry that he had left.
Je regrettais qu'il soit parti.

Uses of the subjunctive
There are 3 main uses of the subjunctive in French:
1. Whenever thre is doubt, uncertainty or mere possibility
2. Whenever somebody expresses an emotion, feeling or wish
3. After certain conunuctions

Examples:
(a) I don't think that it's true.
Je ne crois pas ce soit vrai.

(b) He is not saying that I am wrong.
Il ne dit pas que j'aie tort.

(c) It is possible that he has left.
Il est possible qu'il soit parti.

(d) It seems that he doesn't want to go.
Il semble qu'il ne veuille pas aller.

(e) I doubt if he can do it.
Je doute qu'il puisse le faire.

(f) I am looking for a house which has a large garden.
Je cherche une maison qui ait un grand jardin.

(g) Is there a place where we can park the car?
Il y a un endroit où nous puissions garer la voiture?

(h) I am glad that you are going to the party.
Je suis content(e) que tu ailles à la boum.

(i) We are sorry that you failed the exam.
Nous sommes désolés que tu aies échoué à la examen.

(j) She is surprised that he did it.
Elle s'étonné qu'il l'ait fait.

(k) I'm afraid that she may fall.
J'ai peur qu'elle ne tombe.

(l) I want you to understand the subjunctive.
Je veux que vous compreniez le subjonctif.

(m) We prefer that you do it now.
Nous préférons que tu le fasses maintenant.

Conjunctions
Pour que - In order that
Sans que - Without
Avant que - Before
Bien que - Although
Quoique - Although
Jusqu'à ce que - Until
À moins que - Unless
De peur que - Fear that
Pourvu que - Provided that
À condition que - On condition that

Reply 17

Lottie

I am explaining the subjunctive to you so that you may understand it.
Je vous explique le subjonctif pour que vous le compreniez.

He left without me knowing.
Il est parti sans que je le sache.

I will see him before he leaves.
Je le verrai avant qu'il parte.

Although he is ill, he is going to school.
Bien qu'il soit malade, il va à l'école.

I will stay here until you arrive.
Je resterai ici jusqu'à ce que tu arrives.

I will continue unless you are too tired.
Je continuerai à moins que tu ne sois trop fatigué(e).

I won't do it for fear you won't like it.
Je ne le ferai pas de peur que tu ne l'aimes pas.

You will get a good grade providing that you work hard.
Tu auras une bonne note pourvu que tu travailles dur.

You can come on condition that you pay the money.
Tu peux venir à condition que tu paies l'argent.

To wait until - Attendre que + subjunctive
I will wait here until you come back.
J'attendrai ici que tu reviennes.

Not until - I will not leave until you arrive.
Je ne partirai pas avant que tu arrives.

The subjunctive is also used after superlatives and virtual superlatives (e.g. only, first, etc.)
e.g. It's the most interesting book that I've read.
C'est le livre le plus intéressant que j'aie lu.

He is the only one who can do it.
C'est le seul qui puisse le faire.

And with commands, usually in the il/elle or ils/elles forms:
Let him go to the party.
Qu'il aille à la boum.