'How the Media Made UKIP'

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#1
Report Thread starter 6 years ago
#1
I would like to see that as the title of a BBC Panorama programme...

To what extent did the media impact the rise of this party that follows a line of 'returning to the good ol' days' - whatever they were...

Personally I think Britain has never been greater and we have an excellent future ahead of us. The fear inducing aspect of certain media streams and parties such as this just make me wonder if people ever question their views. Such as 'Why am I against further immigration? How have I taken this view, is it because I have encountered something first hand that has moulded my view or is it heavily influenced by a non-balanced media stream that aims to shape my views?'

and 'Why do I think tories are all toffs who are out for themselves and their mates, is it because every tory I've met has been a public school boy, rude and arrogant? Or is it the papers I'm reading?'

Basically I think we all need to think more about how our views are shaped and also reject the fear that is pushed on us. People need to lighten up... (*cough* and not vote UKIP)
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6Jesus6Christ6
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#2
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To your opening comment, it seems you are dependent on the media to re-enforce (or even create) your worldview.

To your second comment, I would say that without media coverage, UKIP would be nowhere. Thanks to the media, people know that UKIP EXISTS, the people en-masse would largely have been unaware of the party had the media not given them air time.

With regards to your third paragraph, yes we are at a new high in terms of the stock market, yet wages have stagnated, and we're not creating anything especially new or ground-breaking, or revolutionary in terms of a commodity that can be traded. Furthermore, what happens when the stock market is at a periodic high? It falls to a periodic low. Every 5-7 years this happens, and when was the last financial crisis... oh about 6 years ago...

Is there any preparation for the next crisis? No. Has the conservative-led coalition reduced the deficit as they "promised" (read, tricked you into thinking they would)? No. Has this 6 year period of so called economic growth meaningfully affected the average John? Not much, in fact he's probably worse off this decade than he was in the last, speaking in terms of buying power.

This brings me to address your comments on immigration. This problem is one of supply and demand, and I will illustrate it with an example:

There is a job opening at McDick's. The manager advertises the job's pay for £8 an hour, flipping burgers. Let's say 100 people apply for this job - this signifies to the manager that there are 100 people looking for a **** job, and he can afford to pay lower wages since the labour supply is high.

The demand for labour is low: only 1 job opening. Yet thanks to unlimited and unchecked (they let any psychopath in as long as he's from an EU country) immigration, the supply of labour is high - 100 people are applying for the job.

Consider the negative effects of a basically unlimited (well not really, but pretty much) labour supply. It drives down wages for the rest of the British people. It would appear that this "DEY TEK AUR JEERRRRBBS" business contains an element of truth.

I'm not saying we should all go out and vote for UKIP, since one vote means jack **** and so does any political promise. UKIP and the Greens are certainly the best of a bad bunch.

Out of interest OP, who are you voting for?

My position on the matter: voting is for chumps who think that some random dude that they've likely never even met has their best interests at heart.
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#3
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Haha! Whilst I love your south park reference let me say I am not blind to your arguments, I must commend you on putting them in such a structured way. However, what I am saying is that beyond all this, and beyond statistics, and beyond headlines - How has any of this affected you - If the papers weren't there, what real world experience would you base your views on? Would you hold the same view on immigration? Have you had that experience of going for a job and not getting it as a direct result of other candidates pipping you to the post? As for the amount you are paid falling due to increased supply (basic economics of course..) that needs to be addressed, and was in part by the Labour governments introduction of the minimum wage. But immigration, and immigrants create jobs and businesses just as they take them. I put it to you that this has been a recurring problem throughout the history of the modern state.

There was a thing called empire, and when empire collapsed a looser commonwealth was set up. Was it not right that those commonwealth countries could benefit as much from our land as we once did theirs. Are we not all greater for it, for that advancement, for that reassessment of values and ability to work alongside each other. Beyond economics their is democracy, community and society.

Oh and I lean towards the tories DC's version - more liberal on social policy. But yes the EU needs to stop being so reactionary, stubborn and needs to drop the 'ever closer union' policy. Free movement needs to be restricted, however I am happy with the achievements made by Germany in this area. We don't run the EU, and the battles we come up against again have been around for centuries, look at the balance of power that occurred in Europe! Austria, France, Spain, Germany - all have been dominant and hegemonic at one point, we have always been the balance checkers! http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...ss-eu-migrants But it needs reform, we do not need to leave. But hey if we do, we can survive I agree. But then so could Scotland if it left the UK. Doesn't mean I'd want it to.

Sorry about how incoherent my text is and how I've missed some areas you mentioned. Beyond tired! Ha
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#4
Report Thread starter 6 years ago
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(Original post by 6Jesus6Christ6)
To your opening comment, it seems you are dependent on the media to re-enforce (or even create) your worldview.

To your second comment, I would say that without media coverage, UKIP would be nowhere. Thanks to the media, people know that UKIP EXISTS, the people en-masse would largely have been unaware of the party had the media not given them air time.

With regards to your third paragraph, yes we are at a new high in terms of the stock market, yet wages have stagnated, and we're not creating anything especially new or ground-breaking, or revolutionary in terms of a commodity that can be traded. Furthermore, what happens when the stock market is at a periodic high? It falls to a periodic low. Every 5-7 years this happens, and when was the last financial crisis... oh about 6 years ago...

Is there any preparation for the next crisis? No. Has the conservative-led coalition reduced the deficit as they "promised" (read, tricked you into thinking they would)? No. Has this 6 year period of so called economic growth meaningfully affected the average John? Not much, in fact he's probably worse off this decade than he was in the last, speaking in terms of buying power.

This brings me to address your comments on immigration. This problem is one of supply and demand, and I will illustrate it with an example:

There is a job opening at McDick's. The manager advertises the job's pay for £8 an hour, flipping burgers. Let's say 100 people apply for this job - this signifies to the manager that there are 100 people looking for a **** job, and he can afford to pay lower wages since the labour supply is high.

The demand for labour is low: only 1 job opening. Yet thanks to unlimited and unchecked (they let any psychopath in as long as he's from an EU country) immigration, the supply of labour is high - 100 people are applying for the job.

Consider the negative effects of a basically unlimited (well not really, but pretty much) labour supply. It drives down wages for the rest of the British people. It would appear that this "DEY TEK AUR JEERRRRBBS" business contains an element of truth.

I'm not saying we should all go out and vote for UKIP, since one vote means jack **** and so does any political promise. UKIP and the Greens are certainly the best of a bad bunch.

Out of interest OP, who are you voting for?

My position on the matter: voting is for chumps who think that some random dude that they've likely never even met has their best interests at heart.
I meant to quote you in my last post ^^

So you wouldn't vote? Why not just go and spoil your ballot, at least that goes down as defiance. Not voting goes down as 'not interested' and means parties choose not to form policy around what may be important to your age group etc. as we see in the 18-24 age bracket and low voter turnout.

This forms a part of political science - and shapes policy. If more people spoiled ballots tahn din't vote, then that would show parties that they're missing out on potential votes from people who are willing to go and vote.

It's why I believe we should have compulsory voting. "Oh but it's not democratic", "no not voting is not democratic", we should also have online voting so young people are more engaged/more likely to vote "But it's not safe and open to fraud" "So is banking but we're happy to do that online" and other such things...

Spoil the ballot, don't not turn up and vote.
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dean.stanston
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#5
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Tories and Labour scared their duopoly is ending. Who cares if it is? This is why the hacks in the media are making a big deal of this when it's clearly immaterial. UKIP will win seats and be part of a coalition government. Cameron and Miliband need to accept reality and adapt accordingly....
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Davij038
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#6
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(Original post by 6Jesus6Christ6)
This brings me to address your comments on immigration. This problem is one of supply and demand, and I will illustrate it with an example:

There is a job opening at McDick's. The manager advertises the job's pay for £8 an hour, flipping burgers. Let's say 100 people apply for this job - this signifies to the manager that there are 100 people looking for a **** job, and he can afford to pay lower wages since the labour supply is high.

The demand for labour is low: only 1 job opening. Yet thanks to unlimited and unchecked (they let any psychopath in as long as he's from an EU country) immigration, the supply of labour is high - 100 people are applying for the job.

Consider the negative effects of a basically unlimited (well not really, but pretty much) labour supply. It drives down wages for the rest of the British people. It would appear that this "DEY TEK AUR JEERRRRBBS" business contains an element of truth.

I'm not saying we should all go out and vote for UKIP, since one vote means jack **** and so does any political promise. UKIP and the Greens are certainly the best of a bad bunch.

Out of interest OP, who are you voting for?

My position on the matter: voting is for chumps who think that some random dude that they've likely never even met has their best interests at heart.
to yourfirst point: this is why we have a thing called the minimum wage: ukip and the Tories don't beleive in I but this is essential to getting paid fairly by employers.

Secondly: let's be real, immigration is only affecting very low paid manual work (something I've done in the past) there's no brain surgeons worried about getting they're jobs taken by Romanians. If a polish worker who can barely speak the language is more qualified for a job then you thwn you've got some serious problems. there is work, it's just work that for a lot of people is too hard and/ or poorly paid.

contrary to what the daily heil says, we don't let any psychopath in, one of the pros of being in the EU is that we can more accurately check who is coming in as we are part of the sane Union. Any problems we have encountered are the fault of the current Home Secretary.

Ukips sole coherent policy is on Europe and it is an utterly ridiculous one at that and is as credible as Scotland post independence: it will simply not work. UKIP want to take all the benefits without some of the costs: it is an utter von they're selling to the British public.

as for the greens they have some good policies but are hopeless when it comes to economics: raise taxes, raise public spending, raise benefits, raise public spending...

liberal democrats remain by far the most credible party.
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