Oxford and Cambridge need colleges exclusively for state school pupils Watch

Poll: Oxbridge needs colleges exclusively for state school pupils
Yes (33)
14.8%
No (190)
85.2%
Doones
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#1
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#1
Article in the Guardian recommending that Oxbridge should have some colleges for state-school students only.

Thoughts? For one, I thought Fitzwilliam College at Cambridge was established partially with that in mind.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...-school-pupils

NB. Article author, Lorna Finlayson, is a junior fellow at Kings, Cambridge.
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opalescent
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#2
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#2
I was at Selwyn College, having been in both private and state schools. I think this would be a terrible idea, as it would essentially segregate state school pupils when they arrive at university. I know that teaching does take you out of college, but the college is still a big part of most students' social life and there is a risk that encouraging state school applicants to go for a specific college just for them would create prejudice rather than reduce it. The university needs to do more for access, but I don't think this is the right way - it would be better to fund more full scholarships for state school pupils, which they can use for the college of their choice.
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StarvingAutist
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#3
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It's a stupid idea to segregate private and state school students.
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Doones
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#4
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#4
Well she does herself say the response is usually: "Cue gasps, nervous laughter and murmurs of “discrimination”"

So, anyone think it's a good idea? After all, as she reminds us, there are women-only colleges.
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felamaslen
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#5
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#5
It's a great idea if you want to create more social division than we already have. I'm surprised this appeared in the guardian! Then again, it is mainly privileged people who read it.
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StarvingAutist
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#6
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#6
(Original post by jneill)
After all, as she reminds us, there are women-only colleges.
I think that's a dumb idea too
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Legilimency
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#7
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#7
"No", is my opinon. Why? Because the problem isn't that there's not enough space for state-schooled students, but perhaps instead that the state-schooled students doesn't live up to the standards of Oxbridge as well as independently schooled students. The problem also constitutes in state-schoolers seem to be less encourage to apply to Oxbridge compared to the previously mentioned group. Less encouragement in combination with being less prepared for Oxbridge studies is a recipe for failure. This is a problem caused by many various factors such as, for example, socio-economic preconditions. .
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daisystones
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#8
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#8
Well this isn't snobby at all...
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Puddles the Monkey
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#9
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#9
(Original post by jneill)
Article in the Guardian recommending that Oxbridge should have some colleges for state-school students only.

Thoughts? For one, I thought Fitzwilliam College at Cambridge was established partially with that in mind.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...-school-pupils

NB. Article author, Lorna Finlayson, is a junior fellow at Kings, Cambridge.
I moved this into Educational Debate for you, but left a redirect from the Oxbridge forum.
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Doones
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#10
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#10
(Original post by Puddles the Monkey)
I moved this into Educational Debate for you, but left a redirect from the Oxbridge forum.
Ta!
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Doones
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#11
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#11
(Original post by StarvingAutist)
I think that's a dumb idea too
Agreed - and I hadn't realised until just now that Oxford no longer has any women-only colleges. But that needs a whole different thread
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AnyRandomName
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#12
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#12
Yep, I have to agree with everyone else. This is a truly awful idea. I can't actually think of a worse idea for Oxbridge. Also, women-only colleges are a terrible idea, I'm thankful that Oxford got rid of them.
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alow
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#13
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#13
That's a stupid idea.
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Puddles the Monkey
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#14
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#14
(Original post by alow)
That's a stupid idea.
Why is it a stupid idea?
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opalescent
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#15
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#15
(Original post by jneill)

So, anyone think it's a good idea? After all, as she reminds us, there are women-only colleges.
Women-only colleges were mostly founded in the late 1800s, at a time when women weren't allowed to live and study at the same colleges as men. At Cambridge they weren't even allowed to be full members of the university until 1948. Women-only colleges were the best (and only!) option for an Oxbridge education that female students had. I think there's a difference between setting up a female-only college because it's the only option available to you at that time and deliberately establishing a college that essentially segregates by educational and socioeconomic background. This is why most of the women-only Oxbridge colleges voted to go mixed, because they felt that the colleges had outlived their purpose once higher-level education for women was no longer this controversial thing. Even the all-women colleges that remain today have a lot of mixed teaching and mixed social events, so the only substantial difference is that their accommodation is single-sex.

It's not a controversial idea that state school students should be able to go to Oxbridge. No one is arguing that they shouldn't be full members of the university, if they're allowed to come at all. It's a different situation from how it was in the 1800s. The question is how to increase their participation, and a segregated college is not the way to do it - it would be hardly any time before people were sneering at their college as not a 'real' college where they let in just anyone, or something. There needs to be a greater percentage of state school students across all the colleges.
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Doones
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#16
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#16
According to HESA, Cambridge is now only 4th "worst" anyway:

LOWEST STATE SCHOOL INTAKE
The University of Oxford 57.4%
The University of St Andrews 58.9%
The University of Bristol 59.4%
The University of Cambridge 63%
University of Durham 63.4%
Imperial College London 64.7%
University College London 65.7%
The University of Edinburgh 67.3%
The University of Exeter 69.1%
The University of Newcastle 70%

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education...-students.html
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james22
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#17
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#17
(Original post by jneill)
According to HESA, Cambridge is now only 4th "worst" anyway:

LOWEST STATE SCHOOL INTAKE
The University of Oxford 57.4%
The University of St Andrews 58.9%
The University of Bristol 59.4%
The University of Cambridge 63%
University of Durham 63.4%
Imperial College London 64.7%
University College London 65.7%
The University of Edinburgh 67.3%
The University of Exeter 69.1%
The University of Newcastle 70%

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education...-students.html
So?
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Doones
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#18
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#18
(Original post by james22)
So?
So the steps they have taken so far appear to be moving things in the right direction.

Or do you disagree?
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Doones
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#19
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#19
To the person who voted Yes: interesting! What are your reasons?
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Chief Wiggum
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#20
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#20
That really is a terrible idea. I'm very surprised the author is a Junior Fellow at King's, and yet thinks that would be a good idea.
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