Proposal: Creation of a Nordic State Watch

Poll: This proposal should be enacted
Yes (7)
70%
No (3)
30%
Snufkin
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#1
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#1
Intention: This proposal will unite Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Iceland and the autonomous regions of Greenland and the Faroe Islands into single state to be known as the Nordic Union.

Reasoning: The Nordic countries share a common history and culture, their respective languages are all closely related and each country shares a similar social and political makeup. As a union I believe these countries would be more effective in representing its citizens both on the world stage and in a European Union which is dominated by Germany and France. A united Norden would also be more effective in maintaining and asserting its Arctic claim in the face of an increasingly aggressive Russia.

Questions welcomed, 5 days of discussion will follow and then 5 days of voting.
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McRite
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#2
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#2
Turkey and Botswana gives its blessing however, how about Finland, it's also a Scandinavian country isn't it?
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Snufkin
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#3
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#3
(Original post by McRite)
Turkey and Botswana gives its blessing however, how about Finland, it's also a Scandinavian country isn't it?
OOC: Yes Finland should also be included however it is already being represented by someone.
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username1524603
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#4
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#4
New Zealand is weary of this idea. The Faroe islands are nearer Scotland than they are any other country. The culture of the islands is also heavily influenced by Britain following the world wars. Despite the above countries being close politically, we doubt whether the people want a complete union.
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Saracen's Fez
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#5
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#5
Uruguay tentatively supports this proposition.
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Aph
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#6
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#6
The Netherlands agrees on the provision that the United Kingdom and Finland should have to opportunity to join too.
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Republic1
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#7
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#7
The United Kingdom and the Islamic Republic of Iran wish Sweden the best of luck in her pursuit.

We suggest you enact Section 7 of the Charter and hold a Summit, and then draft an official Treaty between active countries.
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Iggy Azalea
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#8
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#8
Mexico wishes to reform the Latin Union soon, and so equally supports Sweden's proposal.
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Snufkin
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#9
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#9
(Original post by Nigel Farage MEP)
New Zealand is weary of this idea. The Faroe islands are nearer Scotland than they are any other country. The culture of the islands is also heavily influenced by Britain following the world wars. Despite the above countries being close politically, we doubt whether the people want a complete union.

(Original post by Aph)
The Netherlands agrees on the provision that the United Kingdom and Finland should have to opportunity to join too.
Sweden would like to remind New Zealand that the Faroe Islands' culture has not been influenced by Britain in any way and their geographical proximity to Scotland is irrelevant since they are already part of the Kingdom of Denmark.

Sweden agrees with the Netherlands that Finland should have the opportunity of joining, but disagrees that the United Kingdom should join. The UK is not and never has been Nordic.
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Aph
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#10
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#10
(Original post by Snufkin)
Sweden would like to remind New Zealand that the Faroe Islands' culture has not been influenced by Britain in any way and their geographical proximity to Scotland is irrelevant since they are already part of the Kingdom of Denmark.

Sweden agrees with the Netherlands that Finland should have the opportunity of joining, but disagrees that the United Kingdom should join. The UK is not and never has been Nordic.
The Netherlands would like to remind sweeden that Scotland has a seat on the Nordic council and as it cannot be separated from the UK due to the reacent referendum that the UK should be given the opportunity.
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Snufkin
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#11
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#11
(Original post by Aph)
The Netherlands would like to remind sweeden that Scotland has a seat on the Nordic council and as it cannot be separated from the UK due to the reacent referendum that the UK should be given the opportunity.
Sweden would ask the Netherlands to check its facts. Scotland does not have a seat on the Nordic Council and the UK will not be given the opportunity to join under any circumstances.
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Aph
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#12
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#12
(Original post by Snufkin)
Sweden would ask the Netherlands to check its facts. Scotland does not have a seat on the Nordic Council and the UK will not be given the opportunity to join under any circumstances.
The Netherlands appologises for it's misinformation. And respects swedes decition.
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username1524603
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#13
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#13
(Original post by Snufkin)
Sweden would like to remind New Zealand that the Faroe Islands' culture has not been influenced by Britain in any way and their geographical proximity to Scotland is irrelevant since they are already part of the Kingdom of Denmark.

Sweden agrees with the Netherlands that Finland should have the opportunity of joining, but disagrees that the United Kingdom should join. The UK is not and never has been Nordic.
With more Faroese women having Celtic DNA (84%) than Scandanavian (DNA), I would ask Sweden in which way the Faroe Islands are culturally nearer Scandinavian Denmark than Celtic Scotland? The majority of the Faroese population are primarily from British Isles descent.

Examining the Faroese love for football, tea, pubs, and Dairy Milk chocolate, major parts of British culture, I ask in which ways apart from languages and politics is the culture of the Faroe Islands not that heavily influenced by Britain?

Considering 10% of the population are part of the Open Brethen community set up in 1865 by William Gibson Sloan from England, what effect does Sweden feel an anglacised Christian Evangelical movement have on the Faroe Islands?

With the Faroese people, helped by British political pressure, establishing autonomy in 1948, and later refusing to join Denmark when entering the EU, why would the Faroese people now want to join Denmark in the formation of a Nordic state?
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junior.doctor
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#14
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#14
Madagascar thinks that this is an interesting idea and supports it. However we wonder how the logistics of language, currency etc would work? Which language would be the official language? How would the head of state be chosen?
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Snufkin
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#15
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#15
(Original post by Nigel Farage MEP)
With more Faroese women having Celtic DNA (84%) than Scandanavian (DNA), I would ask Sweden in which way the Faroe Islands are culturally nearer Scandinavian Denmark than Celtic Scotland? The majority of the Faroese population are primarily from British Isles descent.

Examining the Faroese love for football, tea, pubs, and Dairy Milk chocolate, major parts of British culture, I ask in which ways apart from languages and politics is the culture of the Faroe Islands not that heavily influenced by Britain?

Considering 10% of the population are part of the Open Brethen community set up in 1865 by William Gibson Sloan from England, what effect does Sweden feel an anglacised Christian Evangelical movement have on the Faroe Islands?

With the Faroese people, helped by British political pressure, establishing autonomy in 1948, and later refusing to join Denmark when entering the EU, why would the Faroese people now want to join Denmark in the formation of a Nordic state?
The origins of the Faroese people is well documented in medieval literature, they were Vikings! They speak a version of medieval Old Norse, their culture, cuisine and even national dress is distinctly Scandinavian. As for your DNA comment, that is clearly lifted straight out of Wikipedia. Sweden wonders why you chose to omit the part that says 87% of men are of Scandinavian origin. Sweden would like to point out that British people's DNA suggests they originated from Iberia, are the British really Spanish in disguise?

Sweden feels that Britain does not have a monopoly on football, tea, pubs, or milk chocolate. Sweden is not inclined to debate the religious make of the Faroe Islands considering that a very clear majority are Lutheran. Sweden concedes that a small minority share Anglican beliefs but that does not mean they are British.

The Faroese people have elected to join a union with Denmark (and the other Nordic countries) because they feel confident that a Nordic state would be able to successfully argue for a reform of the Common Fisheries Policy, thus allowing them entry into the EU.

(Original post by junior.doctor)
Madagascar thinks that this is an interesting idea and supports it. However we wonder how the logistics of language, currency etc would work? Which language would be the official language? How would the head of state be chosen?
The Nordic Union would adopt a new currency, the Nordic Krone.

Like in the EU, there will be multiple official languages. Danish, Norwegian, Swedish, Icelandic, Faroese, Greenlandic and Sami will all have official status. For practical purposes the three working languages will be Danish, Norwegian and Swedish because they have the most speakers and they are mutually intelligible with each other. Every Nordic citizen will be required to study at least one of the three working languages at school.

The Nordic Union will be a federal constitutional monarchy, each former country will retain its own parliament and have legislative authority for all areas except foreign affairs and defence. A new federal government will be established with members elected from each state; these members will elect a president who will act as head of government and represent the Nordic Union abroad. A recent pan-Nordic referendum to decide the fate of the three royal families of Scandinavia decided to appoint Harald V of Norway as King of the whole Nordic region, therefore the head of state shall be him and his heirs.
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username1524603
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#16
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#16
(Original post by Snufkin)
The origins of the Faroese people is well documented in medieval literature, they were Vikings! They speak a version of medieval Old Norse, their culture, cuisine and even national dress is distinctly Scandinavian. As for your DNA comment, that is clearly lifted straight out of Wikipedia. Sweden wonders why you chose to omit the part that says 87% of men are of Scandinavian origin. Sweden would like to point out that British people's DNA suggests they originated from Iberia, are the British really Spanish in disguise?

Sweden feels that Britain does not have a monopoly on football, tea, pubs, or milk chocolate. Sweden is not inclined to debate the religious make of the Faroe Islands considering that a very clear majority are Lutheran. Sweden concedes that a small minority share Anglican beliefs but that does not mean they are British.

The Faroese people have elected to join a union with Denmark (and the other Nordic countries) because they feel confident that a Nordic state would be able to successfully argue for a reform of the Common Fisheries Policy, thus allowing them entry into the EU.
Reading the full article we see basing a judgement upon the trace of a Y chromosome does not give an accurate picture. The British population was formed on Celtic and Germanic migration with a large chunk of Scandinavian making up the Mesolithic ancestry.

New Zealand cannot say we noticed Wikipedia had the same figure. However, this report was my source. It did not mention males in the report in great detail. If males are as you say, we would appreciate a source so we can evaluate, simply biology (it takes a man and a women to reproduce) reveals the DNA would be passed on by the women to their children. DNA blood lines very rarely die out.

We wouldn't dream of suggesting influencing large parts of Scandinavia with things Britain invented or introduced on a mass scale somehow gives them a monopoly, but it does show British influence. Going back to our original comment, New Zealand is worried the disproportionately large British influence on the Faroe islands compared to the British influence on the rest of Scandinavia could present troubles with a unified state. The comment had nothing to do with claiming people are British; it claimed the islands had a British influence, which they do.

New Zealand disagrees and we are sure Britain will to. A unified Nordic state will be outvoted by a majority in the EU for whom the CFP benefits enormously. While Britain and a few other countries with mass fish stocks will agree, the countries with limited stocks will not. The only way to remain out of the CFP would be to not enter the EU which would require negotiation about a free trade agreement.

Considering not all Nordic countries are members of the EU, will the initial unified state formed be a member? If so, on what terms?
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Snufkin
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#17
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#17
(Original post by Nigel Farage MEP)
Reading the full article we see basing a judgement upon the trace of a Y chromosome does not give an accurate picture. The British population was formed on Celtic and Germanic migration with a large chunk of Scandinavian making up the Mesolithic ancestry.

New Zealand cannot say we noticed Wikipedia had the same figure. However, this report was my source. It did not mention males in the report in great detail. If males are as you say, we would appreciate a source so we can evaluate, simply biology (it takes a man and a women to reproduce) reveals the DNA would be passed on by the women to their children. DNA blood lines very rarely die out.

We wouldn't dream of suggesting influencing large parts of Scandinavia with things Britain invented or introduced on a mass scale somehow gives them a monopoly, but it does show British influence. Going back to our original comment, New Zealand is worried the disproportionately large British influence on the Faroe islands compared to the British influence on the rest of Scandinavia could present troubles with a unified state. The comment had nothing to do with claiming people are British; it claimed the islands had a British influence, which they do.

New Zealand disagrees and we are sure Britain will to. A unified Nordic state will be outvoted by a majority in the EU for whom the CFP benefits enormously. While Britain and a few other countries with mass fish stocks will agree, the countries with limited stocks will not. The only way to remain out of the CFP would be to not enter the EU which would require negotiation about a free trade agreement.

Considering not all Nordic countries are members of the EU, will the initial unified state formed be a member? If so, on what terms?
I repeat, I'm not a scientist and I don't intend to debate something I don't fully understand. Sweden does not believe genetic profiling is relevant to establishing the national identity of a people and will not insult the Faroese people further by continuing to discuss their genetic history in this way.

Sweden rejects the notion that Britain has a disproportionately large influence over the Faroe Islands and would ask New Zealand to provide some solid examples of Britain demonstrating an influence over Faroese politics and economics.

Norway successfully negotiated membership with the EU (although the people rejected membership at the last minute) and Iceland is currently in the process of applying, therefore Sweden does not believe there will be any serious opposition to a united Nordic state joining the EU. After all, the EU needs the Nordic countries much more than we need the EU. The Nordic Union would have a GDP of more than $1.3 trillion making it the 5th biggest economy in the EU. With that in mind, Sweden believes it reasonable to assume Europe would reform the CFP.
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St. Brynjar
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#18
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#18
Canada rejects this proposal on the grounds of its undertones of Arctic conquest. Canada and Russia have by far the greatest claim in the region and have cooperated peacefully with all claimants at the Arctic Council.
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Snufkin
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#19
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#19
The Nordic countries have no interest in Arctic conquest, we simply wish to preserve our claim. Sweden would like to point out that the Nordic combined claim to the Arctic is in fact larger than Canada's. Sweden feels that the Nordic countries have a perfect right to exercise Nordic sovereignty over our land without another country interpreting that as an act of aggression. Sweden would also remind Canada that the Nordic countries are your allies both in NATO and in the Arctic council, therefore we hope that Canada reconsiders its position.
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username1524603
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#20
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#20
Russia feels a union uniting Nordic countries would be a threat to Russia's power. Russia will not support a unified state and will not recognise it. Any attempt to redraw sea or air borders will be met with the Russian military ignoring the changes operating within the already agreed borders.

Both Russia and New Zealand votes no.
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