After David Cameron's immigration speech his reforms fall apart within hours

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Poll: Will all EU nations agree to reform immigration in line with David Cameron's plan
All EU nations will agree to reform (0)
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Ace123
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David Cameron made his big immigration speech today outlining various measures to reform immigration. None of the measures concerned limiting numbers as EU have already said it won't happen. The measures (closely following UKIP policy) included things such as a 4 year wait for benefits and social housing, deporting if immigrants don't find a job within 6 months.

Within hours nations across the EU ruled out any reforms describing his plans as blackmail, discriminatory & against EU principles.

Spain, Holland, Germany, Poland, Lativa refuse his demands- http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2...-migrants-plan


Poland vow to block any immigration reform-http://www.itv.com/news/2014-11-28/polands-vow-to-veto-immigration-plans-spells-bad-news-for-david-cameron/

Given all 28 EU members must agree to reform (and Cameron himself said it needs a new treaty) will they all agree? where does Cameron go from here? is reform possible?
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democracyforum
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No. He has to admit defeat,
and tell the nation that Germany and France and the Eu are now controlling Britain's immigration policy.
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MatureStudent36
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Germany's recently decided that johnny foreigners aren't entitled to benfits.
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Maker
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I think Cameron is trying to get the EU to be so pissed with Britain they will just say leave.
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MindTheGaps
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It's hardly falling apart. At no point did anyone expect all the European leaders to hear a speech with any meaningful reforms and say 'fair enough'.

Likewise it's a bit weak to listen to some Eurocrat pontificate about how the EU would never agree to this, in the immediate aftermath of the speech, and conclude it's hopeless and we've already failed.

We'll see what happens when it comes to the negotiations. Both sides have set hard bargaining positions, but we cannot reasonably see this Eurobluster as anything more than that until the debate develops.
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MatureStudent36
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(Original post by Maker)
I think Cameron is trying to get the EU to be so pissed with Britain they will just say leave.
Nah. The EU needs the UK.

I'd be Suprised if EU countries go for it. Emigration of EU nationals to the UK looking for work makes their unemployement figures look better than thy actually are.
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Maker
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(Original post by MatureStudent36)
Nah. The EU needs the UK.

I'd be Suprised if EU countries go for it. Emigration of EU nationals to the UK looking for work makes their unemployement figures look better than thy actually are.
I am sure the EU would like Britain to stay but not at any price, if the EU gives Britain substantial concessions, all the other EU countries would want their own concessions some of which would be detrimental to Britain such as fishing quotas.

EU countries knows the EU will fall apart if every country all pulled in different directions.
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Truths
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Wow. He was shut down SWIFTLY.
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nulli tertius
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(Original post by Ace123)
Within hours nations across the EU ruled out any reforms describing his plans as blackmail, discriminatory & against EU principles.
I do worry that Cameron doesn't seem to "get" what are EU core principles and what aren't.

Ultimately how much money we pay in and much subsidy a French farmer gets, is a matter for negotiation and hard bargaining between the countries.

However some things are part of the DNA of the EU in the same way that certain things are part of the DNA of NATO and the Commonwealth.

Cameron couldn't turn round to NATO and say "an attack on one Nato member is an attack on all unless it is Portugal".

Free trade in labour is fundamental to the Common Market. It is one thing to say that people who are not in work should only be able to claim benefits in their own country (and he may well get other EU members to agree on this) but to say that we will subsidise the wages of Brits working in the UK through tax credits and housing benefit but we will not subsidise the wages of Jonny Foreigner who is working in the UK is no different to saying that we should be able to give hand outs to British factories.
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stoltguyboo
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Here in Sweden we are noticing the rise of , Anti EU and Anti mass immigration parties surely it shouldn't be up to the ''EU Superstate'' to control individual countries borders? It will lead to social stability collapsing and then the beginning of the end will come for individual states the sooner the EU is ended the better it's an useless organisation.

I truly hope that the UK leaves! and that will spur several other countries to leave! this organisation should be outlawed it's up for individual states to set it's own laws and control it's own borders and such thing's not pen pushers in Brussels.
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nulli tertius
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(Original post by stoltguyboo)
Here in Sweden we are noticing the rise of , Anti EU and Anti mass immigration parties surely it shouldn't be up to the ''EU Superstate'' to control individual countries borders? It will lead to social stability collapsing and then the beginning of the end will come for individual states the sooner the EU is ended the better it's an useless organisation.

I truly hope that the UK leaves! and that will spur several other countries to leave! this organisation should be outlawed it's up for individual states to set it's own laws and control it's own borders and such thing's not pen pushers in Brussels.
But you have never controlled your border since Norway became independent. The immigration officer in Bergen determined whether someone could enter Sweden.
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TheBBQ
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Politicians are so thick. Bloody hell.
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DErasmus
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How is this man Prime Minister? He really hasn't got a clue. He should sack his advisers immediately.
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thesabbath
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He's been lying all along about his "renegotiations" with the borderless super-state, the media needs to hold him properly to account
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Magnesium
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I doubt all the EU members will agree, they want to have as much mobility for their people as well. The conditions of the EU included the ability for people to be able to freely move within the EU and to have that ease. Despite the repercussions we're facing from letting foreigners emigrate to the UK, I don't think that we can reverse the fact that if we want to be in the EU, we have to conform to its core principles. Obviously, not every foreigner from the EU is trying to leach off our benefit system and take up our streets/increase crime, there are many coming to find valuable work and are essentially benefiting our economy. As long as we hold a dislike towards the amount of immigration and the level of "harm" they're bringing to our country, it'll be very hard for Cameron to try and hold a peaceful position within the EU.

If this continues, many EU members will be discontent and the UK will have no option but to leave, however, the EU need the UK as much as the UK need the EU so perhaps there'll be a compromise in the near future.
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Swindlerz List
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Never trust a Zionist.
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Rakas21
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(Original post by MatureStudent36)
Nah. The EU needs the UK.

I'd be Suprised if EU countries go for it. Emigration of EU nationals to the UK looking for work makes their unemployement figures look better than thy actually are.
Its much more pertinent to ask who wants the UK, not who needs the UK.

Don't underestimate France, Spain and Italy. These three are not massive fans of the free market, probably won't care what happens if they reject a free trade treaty with the UK because it protects their interests and can at the same time weaken Germany who opposes their long term vision.

I suspect German interests will win out and we'll get a good deal but it's probably only a 60-70% likelyhood than the 90% that people make it sound like.
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Everglow
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Moved to UK Politics.

The UK Government needs to understand that reform of the EU is practically impossible. We're either 100% in or 100% out; we can't cut special deals that give us, or any other country for that matter, special privileges. They need to move past the unrealistic goal of reform and onto plans for a referendum. That way we can gauge a conclusive answer as to what the UK electorate wants and end any speculation that the electorate's desires are not being fairly represented.
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Ace123
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(Original post by Reluire)
Moved to UK Politics.

The UK Government needs to understand that reform of the EU is practically impossible. We're either 100% in or 100% out; we can't cut special deals that give us, or any other country for that matter, special privileges. They need to move past the unrealistic goal of reform and onto plans for a referendum. That way we can gauge a conclusive answer as to what the UK electorate wants and end any speculation that the electorate's desires are not being fairly represented.
I agree with you but the Tories and Labour will never say this in a million years. The Labour party are petrified the vote will be to leave and don't want a vote at all and the Tory leadership are also scared and want to stay in, the Tories leadership want in and want to delay a referenum and are talking of reform to satisy backbenchers & voters who if told the Tories want to stay in would go to UKIP. The idea of either Tories or Labour admitting reform is impossible and giving us a vote in the near future won't ever happen
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nulli tertius
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(Original post by Reluire)
Moved to UK Politics.

The UK Government needs to understand that reform of the EU is practically impossible.
I don't think that reform is impossible. The Commission is out of touch with the majority of governments on a lot of issues. For example, the recent black hole of unfunded spending commitments or the inexorable rise in the EU budget may well result in reform of the EU's financial system so that it is supply rather than demand led.

However, certain reforms are impossible because they go against core principles of the EU.

Harold Wilson described politics as the art of the possible. Cameron, who isn't a man of great principle, seems to wish it to be the art of the impossible.

Not only have we this attempt to somehow abolish the Common Market in labour, but his attitude to prisoners voting (not an EU issue) was very similar.

The European Court of Human Rights had made it clear that serious offenders could be automatically stripped of voting rights and that any prisoner could be stripped of voting rights by a judge, but somehow it became a vital issue for Cameron that people jailed for a month for not having a TV licence must automatically be banned from voting.

There is a mulish streak in Cameron.
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