Boys & Feminism Watch

kudzi.c
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#1
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How can we get more boys to see that feminism benefits them too? Any male feminists out there, what made you see the importance of feminism? And people who think feminism is useless, I'd like to know why.
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TroyAndAbed
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#2
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Some people (not just men) need to understand that feminism is about equality and not female supremacy. It has benefits for everyone. I think "feminism" as a word has been tainted by female supremacists & "gender equality" would be a better term to use.
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Spetznaaz
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Well you'd have to tell them a pack of outrageous lies, else they will realise modern day feminism is poison.
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kudzi.c
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(Original post by TroyAndAbed)
Some people (not just men) need to understand that feminism is about equality and not female supremacy. It has benefits for everyone. I think "feminism" as a word has been tainted by female supremacists & "gender equality" would be a better term to use.
The idea is very appealing but I fear we'd be denouncing the hard work of the women before us by changing the term. However if it makes more people open to feminism then it may be a sacrifice we need to make for the end result...
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kudzi.c
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(Original post by Spetznaaz)
Well you'd have to tell them a pack of outrageous lies, else they will realise modern day feminism is poison.
Why is modern feminism poison, and from that statement does that mean you believe previous forms of feminism were good?
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Enoxial
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#6
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Brace yourselves...
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TroyAndAbed
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(Original post by kudzi.c)
The idea is very appealing but I fear we'd be denouncing the hard work of the women before us by changing the term. However if it makes more people open to feminism then it may be a sacrifice we need to make for the end result...
I think what you've just said is unintentionally highlighting the problem with the word feminism. "Denouncing the hard work of the women" implies that only women have had any role in feminism which is again isolating men. It would be good if we could somehow "reset" the word feminism and remove all the negative connotations it seems to have picked up lately but sadly I don't see that happening anytime soon when the word is enough to send many into a fit of rage.
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ChaoticButterfly
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(Original post by kudzi.c)
How can we get more boys to see that feminism benefits them too? Any male feminists out there, what made you see the importance of feminism? And people who think feminism is useless, I'd like to know why.
I want the option for time off work or be the stay at home partner for a while to look after the children. :judge:
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Arkasia
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#9
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You can't. Start over with a new name and new people. Cut off the cancerous growths that are Radfems and Tumblr feminists, and actively show that feminism is more than misandry.
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Jemner01
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One word: Egalitarianism. Feminism was founded on establishment of equal rights and treatment of women, and continues to operate under that banner. I agree with the original idea of equal rights to women (as every citizen should have the same civil rights, duties, freedoms and responsibilities) but the horrific *******ization of feminism aka third-wave feminism is more of a poison to liberty and definitely not a champion of equality.
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kudzi.c
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#11
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(Original post by TroyAndAbed)
I think what you've just said is unintentionally highlighting the problem with the word feminism. "Denouncing the hard work of the women" implies that only women have had any role in feminism which is again isolating men. It would be good if we could somehow "reset" the word feminism and remove all the negative connotations it seems to have picked up lately but sadly I don't see that happening anytime soon when the word is enough to send many into a fit of rage.
Well pointed out, that comment does isolate men. There are many men who fought for gender equality alongside women. I think education, more use and patience will help get us over all the connotations that come with feminism though.
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kudzi.c
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#12
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(Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
I want the option for time off work or be the stay at home partner for a while to look after the children. :judge:
I think we should have shared parental leave when babies are born because not all women want to stay at home for a year whilst too many men miss out on important milestones because of the two weeks paternity leave they get.
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kudzi.c
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(Original post by Jemner01)
One word: Egalitarianism. Feminism was founded on establishment of equal rights and treatment of women, and continues to operate under that banner. I agree with the original idea of equal rights to women (as every citizen should have the same civil rights, duties, freedoms and responsibilities) but the horrific *******ization of feminism aka third-wave feminism is more of a poison to liberty and definitely not a champion of equality.
Please explain, you lost me at poison to liberty. How are feminists not fighting for equality?
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AdamCee
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(Original post by kudzi.c)
How can we get more boys to see that feminism benefits them too? Any male feminists out there, what made you see the importance of feminism? And people who think feminism is useless, I'd like to know why.
I don't see feminism as useless, I just often (not always) see some of the points feminist's make as completely ridiculous.

Real feminist issues which although I don't actively support I am still for them - things like the way woman are payed less than men in the same job, etc.

But in my opinion when you have people throwing complete **** around like "we should teach boys not to rape instead of woman not to wear provoking clothes" which is basically the same as "we should teach people not to steal from houses instead of locking our doors". I just find that stupid.

Oh and the other one I hate even more "why is it seen as trendy for girls to wear boy's clothing and such, but if a boy wears girl's clothing he's picked on - because girls are seen as less in society". When of course that is completely not the truth. Things like that are useless, but some aspects aren't



EDIT: I forgot to say. The thing is with feminism is that it is often regarded as females>males rather than females=males. There are plenty of examples where men are at a disadvantage, so as someone else said, "gender equality" is something I support - not directly feminism.
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Jemner01
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(Original post by kudzi.c)
Please explain, you lost me at poison to liberty. How are feminists not fighting for equality?
Equality is itself subjective. There is a difference between equality of opportunity (which I support) and equality of outcome (which I do not). Women have the same rights and, by law, potential opportunities as men in this country. There is now no need for further equalising action, imo, because this action is rallying for equal outcome.

Feminist activity in places where Sharia Law or negligence of female education or actual sexism exists is fantastic. Feminists like Malala are doing great things for equal rights activism. Third wave feminists are not.

http://check-your-privilege-feminist...not-a-feminist
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yo radical one
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This debate is pointless because it ends up with people arguing over the definition of feminism.


Sensible people will say that men and women deserve equal rights and that gender roles should not be enforced, even if you are a masculine man or a feminine woman. Feminists will say this is feminism, some men will claim that it egalitarianism (note how the name itself doesn't actually matter). Then men will cite some tumblr using weirdo who dresses her bf up as a woman as part of some kind of insane femdom ritual to honour the fempire and claim that is the real feminism, then the feminists will say she is an extremist and literally no progress whatsoever will have been made.
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kudzi.c
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#17
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(Original post by AdamCee)
I don't see feminism as useless, I just often (not always) see some of the points feminist's make as completely ridiculous.(...)
I guess it depends on what you believe matters right now, and understandably nobody agrees with everything feminists stand for. Thanks for your opinion though
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kudzi.c
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(Original post by Jemner01)
Equality is itself subjective. There is a difference between equality of opportunity (which I support) and equality of outcome (which I do not). Women have the same rights and, by law, potential opportunities as men in this country. There is now no need for further equalising action, imo, because this action is rallying for equal outcome.

Feminist activity in places where Sharia Law or negligence of female education or actual sexism exists is fantastic. Feminists like Malala are doing great things for equal rights activism. Third wave feminists are not.

http://check-your-privilege-feminist...not-a-feminist
So are you saying because there is a law which says we should all be paid equally for the same job, feminists should just leave it..? Because that's how I'm seeing your view of equality of opportunity over equality of outcome.

On another note. Do you believe that there is no need for feminism in western cultures? Are third wave feminists creating more issues than there are for women in reality?
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geoking
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The problem is that feminism is now mainly bull****. What they should be talking about is equality. Why they make it female orientated I don't understand as most of the social stigmas that used to exist are almost all gone, so when they talk about feminism it seems very misplaced.
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james22
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(Original post by TroyAndAbed)
Some people (not just men) need to understand that feminism is about equality and not female supremacy. It has benefits for everyone. I think "feminism" as a word has been tainted by female supremacists & "gender equality" would be a better term to use.
It's only about female rights though.
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