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Is Paying For Sex Immoral,Are Men That Do It Losers?

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If anything I would say what's immoral is a culture that makes women so uptight about sex that the market value of prostitutes is so high.

Reply 41

username1315644

Original post by e aí rapaz

I'd say I would be contributing significantly more to a persons/peoples suffering through partaking in the sex trade than I do when I pay people for other services.

I'd look at it less from how nasty the sex trade is and how nasty a lot of the other stuff we do is. Coltan for example, in almost every electronics device you have, people work in open mines horrendous safety conditions, the money to some level usually finances militia groups in both Africa and South America. The phone itself is made in a Foxconn factory in China where pressure on the workers are so high they had to stop them committing suicide with nets at the factory. Here Amazon workers working for minimum wage, with insecure contracts and hours struggling to make rent and keep the bills paid. Those people don't just go home and it ends, their lives are ****. Most people own a phone/camera, and will still buy a phone/camera after knowing that.

I don't think it's worth debating "high class" escorts because a) they're the tiny minority and anyone who thinks otherwise is buying into a myth that gets pedalled to make people feel better, and b) I still don't think most of them are happy or would do what they do if they were truly aware of the roots of their decisions and actions.

The point was not they are representative its about whether or not they could stop if they wished, if they have other options. If you exploiting someone's situation, lack of financial stability or job options, for your own pleasure, that's immoral in any setting yet most do it on a daily basis.

Reply 42

HucktheForde

i dont pay for sex. i pay for her to leave afterwareds

Reply 43

e aí rapaz

Original post by Fizzel

That's kind of an illogical way to debate it. If we all took that approach we could never discuss the morality of anything without saying "oh but there's other immoral stuff we do!".

I didn't know that about Coltan, but I'm not naive and I'm aware that large corporations all profit off other peoples suffering tbh. The fact that people don't do anything about it is a tragedy, it really is. If people were less driven by money and desires as a whole, we'd be able to reduce that kind of thing.

But at least people have a much easier and more direct way of affecting the sex trade, because it's much easier to opt out of.

Reply 44

unprinted

Original post by e aí rapaz

I'd say I would be contributing significantly more to a persons/peoples suffering through partaking in the sex trade than I do when I pay people for other services.

Really? It's contributing more to someone's happiness to pay them minimum wage to, say, clean your toilet for an hour rather than twenty times that to help you have sexual pleasure?

I don't think it's worth debating "high class" escorts because a) they're the tiny minority

Well, bringing up the issue of class is one way to bring up the hackles: 'high class' is merely a marketing term when used by sex workers and a method of divide and rule when used by others.

If you want the real minority, remember Operation Pentameter 2 - "The UK's biggest ever investigation of sex trafficking failed to find a single person who had forced anybody into prostitution in spite of hundreds of raids on sex workers in a six-month campaign by government departments, specialist agencies and every police force in the country."

I still don't think most of them are happy or would do what they do if they were truly aware of the roots of their decisions and actions.

What makes you think you know better than the people doing it?

Reply 45

Smash Bandicoot

Clearly OP was trying to set this up as a thread to agree paying sex is not immoral because morality is subjective but to call certain men out as losers under the pretence of the original question. :roll eyes:

'I find it offensive waaa' my friend has done this once, a day later sought help for depression, watch your tongue.

Reply 46

username1315644

Original post by e aí rapaz

That's kind of an illogical way to debate it. If we all took that approach we could never discuss the morality of anything without saying "oh but there's other immoral stuff we do!".

I was more just pointing to it being a very direct way of view someone's suffering because you are interacting with them where people's suffering isn't always apparent, and people often are unaware of much greater suffering they don't need to witness. Hence your judgement 'I would say I am contributing more to someone's suffering' isn't always clear from your position when being compared to other actions which are accepted, within an immoral framework.

I didn't know that about Coltan, but I'm not naive and I'm aware that large corporations all profit off other peoples suffering tbh. The fact that people don't do anything about it is a tragedy, it really is. If people were less driven by money and desires as a whole, we'd be able to reduce that kind of thing.

I think there is more stuff being done about it now, legislation came in around 2010, but its just an example of something really common for most people where there is a trail of abuse and exploitation. It hasn't had the awareness and political pressure we applied with sweatshops and such. Most of the Coltan used to come from Aus, but with demand for Smart phones and such deposits in places like DRC are being mined and there isn't the oversight you would get in a more developed areas.

But at least people have a much easier and more direct way of affecting the sex trade, because it's much easier to opt out of.

It was more a question of where do you opt out in general? Some people do work low paid jobs, they certainly don't enjoy it and are mainly there to survive (cleaners). Other jobs are by definition just horrible or dangerous or degrading (oil rig workers). How do you decide which is too immoral and opt out? That's why I mentioned choice. I think someone choosing to work a pretty 'bad' job with other choices is better than someone working a better but still 'bad' job with few choices. I am more accepting of the rig worker pulling in £70k a year than the cleaner in effect earning less than minimum wage, even though I'd say the rig worker has greater suffering for the worker, while on the job at least.

Reply 47

hdaindak

Original post by Sulpha

I can understand the stereotype society enforces upon people but if you really think about it, why is it pathetic ? I actually think it's the complete opposite and that men who pay for sex have their heads screwed on - providing they don't get involved with those who are forced/trafficked.

Everyone makes out that the people who pay for sex are ugly, decaying men who can't get laid but that's complete nonsense. Men who could go out and get laid in a heartbeat, are wealthy, are celebrities etc all pay for sex because it's just a convenience over the superficial efforts men normally have to do in order to obtain casual sex.

by that reasoning why should men get to and women not. But also because it means that they probuably can't get any without paying (which is pathetic sorry) and if they can, that they are not interested in getting to know a woman or anything and just literally want sex (which is also abit pathetic)

Reply 48

NathanW18

No and no. Well, as long as you're not cheating on any one. If the studies are to be believed, the majority that pay for sex are married, so they're in the wrong. It has nothing to do with people being losers. Even if they are, what they do with their money has nothing to do with anybody else.

I find it weird how people say this is wrong, but have no problem pulling randoms and having sex on nights out. Same thing, just cutting out the bull****.

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 49

Ribbit1234

well ofcourse they're losers

Reply 50

ChaoticButterfly

Original post by SophieSmall

Not immoral so long as:
- The man (or woman) isn't cheating on someone
- Both parties consent and no one is being coerced or forced into prostitution
- Good measures are taken in safe sex to prevent the spread of STDs

What if they live in a society where the choice is between prostitution and falling into destitution?

Sure there would technically be consent but that is a very grey area if you ask me. What if you have dependents and you see the only available option to look after them properly is via selling your body?

Reply 51

LTG

I was on holiday in Magaluf last year, and me and 4 other mates went to a brothel. I was planning on going in, but saw the girls and had this feeling of guilt/sadness for some reason, like I was imagining if that was a woman from my family.
Two of them went in and what they described was pretty grim and disturbing, they ran out without paying the women as well. Havent spoke to either since.

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 52

unprinted

Original post by ChaoticButterfly

What if they live in a society where the choice is between prostitution and falling into destitution?

You mean like this one? That's a benefits issue.

Good luck with that one, given the hatred expressed by Tories and Labour towards people on benefits.

See also 'it's a drugs policy issue' when talking about street work.

Reply 53

SophieSmall

Original post by ChaoticButterfly

Then I'd see it as immoral. Luckily we live in a country with a fairly good welfare system so that should never really ever be the only option.

Reply 54

username1315644

Original post by Foo.mp3

Eh? I’m not sure you understand what ‘negate’ means :erm:

You can be sure I do. If there is truth in what I wrote, people's feeling towards know individuals and non known individuals are not the same on the same issue. If the feelings you have in situation are known to be irrational, using them as a basis for the further argument is clearly a weak position.

Spoiler

Reply 55

username402722

My main feelings about prostitution are that we should be stopping human trafficking (often into prostitution) and that refuges and outreach work to make it easier for women to leave the profession should be supported.

Reply 56

raq123

I just feel sorry for all the human traffic who serve these man. I have no respect for them special the one who ****s childen human traffic

Reply 57

trustmeimlying1

Original post by SophieSmall

Oh yes I didn't mention the loser part.

Hmm well, I don't know whether I'd definitely see them as a loser. But I would be likely to make assumptions about them such as that they may have a bad attitude towards women, sex and relationships and they likely struggle with romantic connections. Though I'd realise this would not always be the case.

agreed.reminds me kiddo..I havent forgotten about our interrail summer travels..zee deal stands

Reply 58

cole-slaw

yes and yes, and it amazes me that you even have to ask this.

Reply 59

cole-slaw

You're effectively having sex with someone who really really really really doesn't want to have sex with you. Its basically rape. Personally I think kerbcrawlers should be prosecuted as such. Its not like its hard to pull women.