Rail fares increase yet again. Watch

datpiff
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http://www.theguardian.com/money/201...-increase-2015

Soon enough rail will be an unaffordable luxury. Already rents are cheaper than paying for a season ticket in some places.

I swear that managing a rail company is a license to print money. They're sat on their throne like Prince John and the front line staff are shaking us down like The Sheriff of Nottingham:

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shawn_o1
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If you've seen how packed the trains are every rush hour, I think this is justified as long as the money is reinvested in rail infrastructure. Up north they're wiring the train lines and getting faster trains into service by 2018 which means more capacity for the whole region
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datpiff
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(Original post by shawn_o1)
If you've seen how packed the trains are every rush hour, I think this is justified as long as the money is reinvested in rail infrastructure. Up north they're wiring the train lines and getting faster trains into service by 2018 which means more capacity for the whole region

It isn't justified. Travel costs are a huge problem. Rising fares are a problem because:

1) We need to promote greener ways of transport and rising fares just get people back into their cars. Why pay an insane amount to travel when you can just use your car? Might as well pay near To that amount for convenience and the luxury of not having to travel on a dirty, steaming pile of crap which you're guaranteed to seat on?


2) Commuters already pay a lot to travel during peak hours. Wages aren't rising enough to afford increases in rail fares. Transport poverty is already a huge problem in some areas and cuts communities off. Just check out transport costs in other countries and compare what they pay To how much we in the UK pay.

3) The franchising system is a licence to print money and is not a way to run the railway system. It is bad for the consumer and bad for the economy. Privatising the trains was the biggest mistake this government ever made.


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Daftpunker
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Only the thing the great masses can do is vote with their wallet.

Football clubs continue to rise their season ticket prices year on year - yet people still pay it.
University trebled their fees - yet students pay it.
Rail companies raise their ticket prices...the communter swallows it yet again and agrees to pay it.

As ever everyone is outraged and demanding others do something to stop it...
"How about you do something yourself"
Its all gone quiet over there...
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datpiff
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(Original post by Daftpunker)
Only the thing the great masses can do is vote with their wallet.

Football clubs continue to rise their season ticket prices year on year - yet people still pay it.
University trebled their fees - yet students pay it.
Rail companies raise their ticket prices...the communter swallows it yet again and agrees to pay it.

As ever everyone is outraged and demanding others do something to stop it...
"How about you do something yourself"
Its all gone quiet over there...
Errm maybe because people have to get to work? How will people get to where they are going if they choose not to use the train? Many of our generation are priced out of car travel also and cannot drive. Also it's not like you can choose who you travel with. Where I'm at I have no choice other than to travel with Northern Rail (yet they thank you for travelling with them when you get off the train. *****).

Buying a season ticket to watch a football club and buying a ticket for a train are two different things. A transport system is necessary for society to run and football teams arguably aren't.


Another huge problem is the centralisation of industry. Creating one area where all business is (Leeds in Yorkshire and Manchester and Liverpool in the North West) creates huge problems. This puts massive strain on the transport system and creates huge inequalities.

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Daftpunker
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Errm maybe because people have to get to work? How will people get to where they are going if they choose not to use the train? Many of our generation are priced out of car travel also and cannot drive.

Buying a season ticket to watch a football club and buying a ticket for a train are two different things. A transport system is necessary for society to run and football teams arguably aren't.
Research the USA bus boycott - if the UK population put half the effort into organising an efficent protest/boycott as they do ranting as keyboard warriors on here and the Daily Mail comment page the train companies would soon have to appease the public as they can't survive without them.

On the same note I was also amused to read the Student tuition fees protest at Warwick University...

Students are protesting fees AFTER they have agreed to pay them in the first place. Fair enough if your told mid-way through your course you have to pay more...but they signed on the dotted line...I will pay this to attend university...then they protest about. YOU PAYED IT.

Companies do not care about people and feelings. They care about money and profit.
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datpiff
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(Original post by Daftpunker)
Research the USA bus boycott - if the UK population put half the effort into organising an efficent protest/boycott as they do ranting as keyboard warriors on here and the Daily Mail comment page the train companies would soon have to appease the public as they can't survive without them.

On the same note I was also amused to read the Student tuition fees protest at Warwick University...

Students are protesting fees AFTER they have agreed to pay them in the first place. Fair enough if your told mid-way through your course you have to pay more...but they signed on the dotted line...I will pay this to attend university...then they protest about. YOU PAYED IT.

Companies do not care about people and feelings. They care about money and profit.
My point is that a lot of people don't have the luxury to make a choice regarding how they travel. The franchising system causing this terrible problem. Where you live is a huge factor. Many areas (usually deprived ex-industrial communities) here have trains as the sole link to bigger cities in the region and high prices is a huge barrier.

Yeah, British people have never been good at protest and boycott. We're a country that has had the necessity of the 'stiff upper lip' shoved down our throat for years. We have always been told to 'just be quiet and take our medicine' by the baby boomer generation and others before them. 'Put up or shut up' culture is a poison to this country. It's why our customer service is so terrible compared to customer service in other countries. I believe if we were in France then **** would have already gone down.



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Daftpunker
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Yeah, British people have never been good at protest and boycott. We're a country that has had the necessity of the 'stiff upper lip' shoved down our throat for years. 'Put up or shut up' culture is a poison to this country. It's why our customer service is so terrible compared to customer service in other countries.
So we do agree? I'm not having a go at you or anything...what you've summarised above is what I feel.

I also feel people could be a hell of a lot more pro-active in their cost not just to travel but everything.

I work for a company near Purley 30 miles from my home - the train would be £103 a week as the connection goes in and out of London.

2000 people work at the company and a lot of people drive - I don't. I put on the every notice board I live here - looking a for a car sharer...asked about. I found someone who lives 0.4 miles from me in 2 days.

I said I have a great proposal for you...I get your passenger seat for a week - you can have your fuel cost for the week slashed in half with a £25 contribution from me.

Job done.

I understand food, energy and travel to a certain extent. However, people are not prepared to sacrifice a short period of hardship for a potential reward for long-term prosperity.

It happens every year - the train price rises. Every year the comuttors bleat for about 2 days...then resign themselves to paying it.

There are countless examples through history how people power can influence the top...yet this issue the people refuse to unite.
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MatureStudent36
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(Original post by datpiff)
http://www.theguardian.com/money/201...-increase-2015

Soon enough rail will be an unaffordable luxury. Already rents are cheaper than paying for a season ticket in some places.

I swear that managing a rail company is a license to print money. They're sat on their throne like Prince John and the front line staff are shaking us down like The Sheriff of Nottingham:

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Views: 466
Size:  114.0 KB








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What's your opinion on hs2?
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datpiff
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(Original post by MatureStudent36)
What's your opinion on hs2?
It will not do anything to change inequalities between London and the North of England.

I think regional travel should be a priority. Linking up northern towns with major northern cities (not just Leeds and Manchester). Improving links between your Barnsleys, Dewsburys, Doncasters and Rotherhams with cities such as Leeds, Sheffield and Manchester. Affordable and reasonable travel costs too that take into account the 24-hour nature of modern society. The north would be stronger better linked.

Not everyone can live in the major cities. Only thinking about these places will drive up rent in these locations, put pressure on a crumbling and neglected transport system and create overcrowding in inner city and suburban locations. Leeds and Manchester are already becoming unaffordable for a lot of young people. A lot haven't got a choice though because major cities are where all of the work is.

A mass transit in West Yorkshire should also be a top priority! It's disgusting that it's a region that had gone for so long without one!


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Daftpunker
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I do find it frustrating that a 12 mile rural trip for me is £2.40 (which I think is very good value) but a 4 mile trip in London is only a couple of pounds less than what a cab would be.
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Jammy Duel
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Oh no, you're paying more(!)
SO let's have a look at things:
Where does the money go?
Mostly into the network in some form, not into the pocket of shareholders, contrary to popular belief.
In real terms, what's happeneing?
Well, very little actually, 0.4% increase
Who, predominately, uses the rail network?
Those that can afford the price increase

I assume you also took/take/will take offence to your tax bill increasing to pay for education, the NHS etc?
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Iqbal007
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(Original post by Daftpunker)
I do find it frustrating that a 12 mile rural trip for me is £2.40 (which I think is very good value) but a 4 mile trip in London is only a couple of pounds less than what a cab would be.
I completely agree.....especially when parking is free, taking the car is cheaper
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Катя
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(Original post by Jammy Duel)
Oh no, you're paying more(!)
SO let's have a look at things:
Where does the money go?
Mostly into the network in some form, not into the pocket of shareholders, contrary to popular belief.
In real terms, what's happeneing?
Well, very little actually, 0.4% increase
Who, predominately, uses the rail network?
Those that can afford the price increase

I assume you also took/take/will take offence to your tax bill increasing to pay for education, the NHS etc?
Look, you can't have it both ways. You can't have a high tax rate AND have to pay a **** ton of money for HE, a **** ton of money for train travel, etc.

Either go with low taxes for everyone BUT people pay much more for trains / universities / healthcare, or have high taxes but these things are far far cheaper.

At the moment England is moving towards the "worst of both worlds" spot.

All they need to do now is privatise the NHS / make people have private health insurance, and bam. Job done.
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JamesManc
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It's redic, a woman on the news just said she pays £5,000 per year for train fares
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Daftpunker
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At the moment England is moving towards the "worst of both worlds" spot.
You will forgive me but England is actually quite moderate in terms of tax.

I holidayed in Sweden in August. I learnt that the LOWEST tax rate is 45% and the rail price is around £1.50 per mile.
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Daftpunker
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It's redic, a woman on the news just said she pays £5,000 per year for train fares
Drop in the ocean if your a £150,000 a year lawyer. Foolish of your a waitress.

I think its reasonable that people should expect 7-8% of their annual income to go on travel.
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Jammy Duel
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(Original post by Катя)
Look, you can't have it both ways. You can't have a high tax rate AND have to pay a **** ton of money for HE, a **** ton of money for train travel, etc.

Either go with low taxes for everyone BUT people pay much more for trains / universities / healthcare, or have high taxes but these things are far far cheaper.

At the moment England is moving towards the "worst of both worlds" spot.

All they need to do now is privatise the NHS / make people have private health insurance, and bam. Job done.
And I'm all for lower taxes, with all only the essential (obvioulsy the likes of police, fire, defence and roads, along with education and the NHS) in the public sector. The cost of privately operated public transport should be borne by the user, not everybody else, same with HE. Much like people who send their children to private schools should be given the option for a tax rebate (Either the percentage of the budget that goes to education, or the mean cost of educating a child for a year in a state school, whichever is lower), the same could be done for private medical cover, although much harder to do fairly and for the most part not worth bothering with.

Not quite sure as to the relevance of your point to my post is, but whatever.
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MatureStudent36
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(Original post by datpiff)
It will not do anything to change inequalities between London and the North of England.

I think regional travel should be a priority. Linking up northern towns with major northern cities (not just Leeds and Manchester). Improving links between your Barnsleys, Dewsburys, Doncasters and Rotherhams with cities such as Leeds, Sheffield and Manchester. Affordable and reasonable travel costs too that take into account the 24-hour nature of modern society. The north would be stronger better linked.

Not everyone can live in the major cities. Only thinking about these places will drive up rent in these locations, put pressure on a crumbling and neglected transport system and create overcrowding in inner city and suburban locations. Leeds and Manchester are already becoming unaffordable for a lot of young people. A lot haven't got a choice though because major cities are where all of the work is.

A mass transit in West Yorkshire should also be a top priority! It's disgusting that it's a region that had gone for so long without one!


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So in effect you support hs2 then.
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Катя
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(Original post by Jammy Duel)
And I'm all for lower taxes, with all only the essential (obvioulsy the likes of police, fire, defence and roads, along with education and the NHS) in the public sector. The cost of privately operated public transport should be borne by the user, not everybody else, same with HE. Much like people who send their children to private schools should be given the option for a tax rebate (Either the percentage of the budget that goes to education, or the mean cost of educating a child for a year in a state school, whichever is lower), the same could be done for private medical cover, although much harder to do fairly and for the most part not worth bothering with.

Not quite sure as to the relevance of your point to my post is, but whatever.
I thought by your post you meant "stop complaining about high rail fares, because they all go back into the railway" - but the point is that in the UK we have quite high taxes anyway, so when people are also forced to shell out an abnormally high amount of money to pay to get to work, of course they should complain.
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