Turn on thread page Beta
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    but i dont think its right to equate universities like leeds or birmingham as superior institutions
    Lots of these businessmen are middle-aged so when they were entering university Southampton and exter would hve been the newest universities (1950s) while birmingham and leeds were the traditional ones. however i still think that these civic universities are the UKs top universities (not the best ones though ).
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by The Boosh)
    is that because i questioned how traditional a university was which was granted its royal charter in the 50's and 60's? Sussex is only 30 years older than the expoly's!!! how can we claim that its traditional when its so new?! lets not get carried away with this notion of tradition, trying to create an ambiguous age gap between expolys and plateglass unis and polishing it off as some sort of mark of quality. 15 years ago the plateglass unis where dubbed 'new unis' - i dont see why they have become traditional in 15 years. Clearly a uni like Sussex is a good uni, and is not an expoly, but its still relatively new compared to other unis.

    in another 15 years will expolys join the traditional gang?
    how ignorant... any universities created BEFORE 1992, whether they were created hundreds years ago or just 40 years ago, are known as the traditional, old universities and thus are more respected by employers than the 'new' universities, the ex-polytechnics which only gained uni status in 1992. some traditional unis are better than other traditional unis, but as a group all the older ones are generally more respected than the post-92 ones. the traditional ones are ALL universities and always have been since the beginning of their existence, whereas the ex-polys are really just polytechnics and were simply named universities in 1992, so are not traditional and generally carry less respect with employers. in 15 years expolys probably won't join the traditional gang because they are still ex-polys, they were born as ex-polys and never universities.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by pcWizz)
    on your second year you can tell your tutor to demote you to from a BA/BSC to a HND.

    Then with the HND you can start a fresh at a different University on their final year programme! ...(anyone agree with me?)
    Can't do a HND in Philosophy at MMU therefore it isn't possible to demote me otherwise that is a very good idea ... and I am only just starting second year and I don't want to stay any longer.
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    any universities created BEFORE 1992, whether they were created hundreds years ago or just 40 years ago, are known as the traditional, old universities
    I wouldn't say that they were all either 'traditional' or 'old' to be honest.
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    i'm not saying they are... that's the way they're thought of by employers though.
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    Well, considering you seem to be using 'traditional' in about 50 different contexts over the course of this thread, would you mind actually defining what you think it is? If you just say 'old universities' or 'not ex-polys', I will stab you with a fork.
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by arkbar)
    I wouldn't say that they were all either 'traditional' or 'old' to be honest.
    thank you arkbar - somebody that is seeing clearly.
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by xx Bex xx)
    i'm not saying they are... that's the way they're thought of by employers though.
    yes you do, dont try worming your way out of this one.
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Vincente)
    Lots of these businessmen are middle-aged so when they were entering university Southampton and exter would hve been the newest universities (1950s) while birmingham and leeds were the traditional ones. however i still think that these civic universities are the UKs top universities (not the best ones though ).
    im sorry im confused with the last part - what do you mean when you say civic universities are the top universities but not the best?

    and why do you think exeter and southampton are below birmingham and leeds?
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by The Boosh)
    yes you do, dont try worming your way out of this one.
    ok fine i do - anything before 92 is traditional and well respected, anything after are new unis and aren't so well respected... and you're the one who can't see clearly, your ignorance is obvious.
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    what do you mean when you say civic universities are the top universities but not the best?
    I mean they are in the top 30 nationally and are well recognised but they aren't quite Oxbridge, UCL, Durham.

    and why do you think exeter and southampton are below birmingham and leeds
    I didn't say that southampton and exeter are below leeds and birmingham. I said that the former 2 were the newest universities around when the businessmen began entering universities (they are in their late 40s and early 50s so e.g. York didn't exist). The two of them back then would have been seen as new and not as recognised as the red bricks, but now I think they are on par.
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    ok fine i do - anything before 92 is traditional and well respected, anything after are new unis and aren't so well respected...
    That's not true.
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    sorry but it is... a traditional degree from a traditional uni looks far better to an employer than a traditonal degree (english, history etc) from an expoly.
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    but whatever, believe what you like it doesn't matter to me.
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    anything before 92 is traditional and well respected
    No it's not, personally I wouldn't say that a degree in 'Sport' from Durham University was very well respected, and that's the third oldest university in the country.
    anything after are new unis and aren't so well respected...
    Again not true. I suspect an employer would respect a degree in English from Oxford Brookes more than one from Lampeter.

    a traditional degree from a traditional uni looks far better to an employer than a traditonal degree (english, history etc) from an expoly.
    Again, not necessarily. I might also add that this is different to what you said earlier, where you were merrily decrying any degree from an ex-poly as worth less than any degree from a 'traditional' university to employers.

    the traditional ones are ALL universities and always have been since the beginning of their existence,
    Dear me, wrong once more. The university of Newcastle was once part of Durham university, Imperial was once the City and Guilds College, the Royal School of Mines and the Royal College of Science and various other 'traditional' universities started out as rather less glamorous organisations.

    Personally, I don't see how you're going to cope in academia if you can't keep to a consistent argument.
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    No it's not, personally I wouldn't say that a degree in 'Sport' from Durham University was very well respected, and that's the third oldest university in the country.
    Sport from durham is better than any ex-poly

    Again not true. I suspect an employer would respect a degree in English from Oxford Brookes more than one from Lampeter
    Lampeter is the bottom of the traditional universities but I would have a degree from the uni of wales than brookes. If oxford brookes is the top ex-poly then it should be against Oxford university the top traditional university. Anyways you have forgotton about the civic universities which easily surpass brookes.

    Again, not necessarily. I might also add that this is different to what you said earlier, where you were merrily decrying any degree from an ex-poly as worth less than any degree from a 'traditional' university to employers.
    I worked a for a CEO (whom is also involved at recruiting undergraduates) and the general line is that ex-polys are last regardless of how well good thier degrees are. The labour market's competition is stiff for graduate jobs and since no one has real work experience your university is the only way that you can be picked out. Why should the employer interview a brookes graduate when there is oxbridge, red brick and plateglass graduates with the same degree performance.
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    Sport from durham is better than any ex-poly
    My arse it is, it's a new ****ty department designed solely to make the university sport teams slightly more competent and would be beaten by ex-polys which had actual competence in their fields of study.
    In addition, I wasn't comparing it to any ex-poly because the person whom I quoted was saying that degrees from 'traditional' universities were more respected than ones from ex-polys.

    Lampeter is the bottom of the traditional universities but I would have a degree from the uni of wales than brookes. If oxford brookes is the top ex-poly then it should be against Oxford university the top traditional university. Anyways you have forgotton about the civic universities which easily surpass brookes.
    I wouldn't, and why should it be put against Oxford? Obviously most ex poly degrees and unis are less respected than most 'traditional' university degrees and unis, but there remain many that are better than 'traditional' uni degrees and unis.
    Also, some redbricks are good, some less so, don't lump them all together.

    The labour market's competition is stiff for graduate jobs and since no one has real work experience your university is the only way that you can be picked out.
    You must be a pretty bad applicant if you have no work experience. An employer should interview an 'n' graduate because they're a good graduate, irrespective of the institution which they attended. It is true, however, that many attendees of ex-polys will not be in the same academic league as those at the very top of the university pile. However, don't lob people into the same boat.
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    but there remain many that are better than 'traditional' uni degrees and unis
    Ok give me more example of this. (english institutions only)

    You must be a pretty bad applicant if you have no work experience
    2 week work experience and retail doesn't count if you want to know. Most people go straight to university from 6th form so how on earth do they get experience. when a firm means experience, its not gap year things it is actually working full time in a company in a proper permanent job for at least 2 years.

    An employer should interview an 'n' graduate because they're a good graduate, irrespective of the institution which they attended.
    Well when theres 50 people fighting for a job and only 10 are interviewed why should the employer pick an ex poly instead of a say the other 42 civic univeristy graduates whom did just as well for their degree and show just enthusiam and other abilities which will be good for the job. It is when the 10 that is picked out that the person really counts and not the degree. Why do you think so many ex poly graduates are now in non graduate jobs.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    What if someone from an ex-poly becomes a barrister? (Which happens)

    If Barrister = Class A profession, but, ex-poly = second class university, then where's the logic?

    Some Cambridge Law students = Can't get a pupillage. (Obviously, less than those who do, but nonetheless)

    Some ex-poly Law students = Can get a pupillage (Obviously not as many, but nonetheless)

    If students were picked solely for their university, then by rights:

    Every class A profession in Britain = Totally full of Oxbridge students, thus, no Lawyer would be from an institution OTHER than Oxbridge.

    *Looks at chambers' websites*
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    Originally posted by Vincente
    Well when theres 50 people fighting for a job and only 10 are interviewed why should the employer pick an ex poly instead of a say the other 42 civic univeristy graduates whom did just as well for their degree and show just enthusiam and other abilities which will be good for the job. It is when the 10 that is picked out that the person really counts and not the degree. Why do you think so many ex poly graduates are now in non graduate jobs.
    What you're trying to say is that the ability to achieve 3As or AAB at A Level is synonymous with having the abilities needed for graduate jobs, which as employers have stated many times over the past few years, it is not. I know someone who got BBC in their A Levels and is now at Oxford Brookes who although not brilliant academically is one of the cleverest people I know in terms of the abilities needed for graduate jobs, things like communication, analysis skills etc.

    Just because someone has gone to Oxford doesn't mean they're going to be brilliant in a graduate level job, it just shows that academically they are extremely clever and can write brilliant essays/thesis.

    Why do you think so many ex poly graduates are now in non graduate jobs.
    Their choice maybe? Also, the statistics for how many graduates in graduate level jobs are unreliable as they are collected 6 months after the graduate has left university and not everyone wants to get a job straightaway. Some go travelling, some work in non-graduate level jobs because they want to work in a more relaxed environment, my sister graduated from UCL in 2003 but didn't get a graduate level job till 2005 as she didn't want to. I know an Oxford graduate with a 2:1 who's currently quite happy in a non-graduate job. Different people have different preferences, it may just be that the top universities have more ambitious graduates than other univerisites and seek out graduate jobs in a more vigorous fashion.
 
 
 
Poll
Black Friday: Yay or Nay?
Useful resources
Uni match

Applying to uni?

Our tool will help you find the perfect course

Articles:

Debate and current affairs guidelinesDebate and current affairs wiki

Quick link:

Educational debate unanswered threads

Groups associated with this forum:

View associated groups

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.