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Ex-polytechnics ... NOT A RANT! lol watch

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    I know someone who got BBC in their A Levels and is now at Oxford Brookes who although not brilliant academically is one of the cleverest people I know in terms of the abilities needed for graduate jobs, things like communication, analysis skills etc.
    I agree that many graduate from top universities can only study while lack skills which will make them good graduates in the workplace. However there are also many able people from oxbridge and the top universities whom pocess excellent skills (public school students are trained to be competitive, to be good public speakers and have confidence) as well as academic ability and this is why they will be chosen over the ex poly student. If you look at the chambers (law) and the top of many businesses it is dominated by these able people whom have the social skills as well as academic performance.

    Their choice maybe?
    However why would someone get themselves into thousands of pounds of debt and study for 3 years? The reason why you go to university is so that you can get a job that a level leavers can't (as well as a bit of fun).
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    (Original post by belle_27)
    What you're trying to say is that the ability to achieve 3As or AAB at A Level is synonymous with having the abilities needed for graduate jobs, which as employers have stated many times over the past few years, it is not. I know someone who got BBC in their A Levels and is now at Oxford Brookes who although not brilliant academically is one of the cleverest people I know in terms of the abilities needed for graduate jobs, things like communication, analysis skills etc.

    Just because someone has gone to Oxford doesn't mean they're going to be brilliant in a graduate level job, it just shows that academically they are extremely clever and can write brilliant essays/thesis.
    I got BBC and have just finished a PhD, so going to oxford or cambridge isn't the be all and end all academically either.
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    (Original post by Vincente)
    The reason why you go to university is so that you can get a job that a level leavers can't (as well as a bit of fun).
    That wasn't the reason I went to university.
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    That wasn't the reason I went to university
    why did you got then, i forgot saying to explore the subject you enjoy as well. And don't tell me the main reason is the university experience then. I never said you have to go to oxbridge, I just said a graduate with good social skills and a good degree from a traditional university fares bestin the labour market.
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    (Original post by Vincente)
    why did you got then, i forgot saying to explore the subject you enjoy as well.
    That's the reason.
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    Jesus christ, bex is a retarded monkey.
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    Originally posted by Vincente
    However why would someone get themselves into thousands of pounds of debt and study for 3 years?
    Well, my sister's in around £6000 of debt yet she's not seeking a graduate level job, at least for the moment, she's quite happy with her running, swimming, gyming and then working in admin doing data entry despite graduating from Oxford.

    What I was trying to say was that the figures your using for saying that so many ex-poly students aren't in graduate level jobs are inaccurate because they're gathered only 6 months after someone has gained their degree and many people pursue different paths for different reasons after graduating.

    (public school students are trained to be competitive, to be good public speakers and have confidence)
    Well, I'm an ex-public school student and I wasn't trained to be any of those things. Yes, teachers encourage you to have confidence in your ability but that's because its a necessary skill in life. But I was never trained to be competitive or good at public speaking. Your making very sweeping generalisations.
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    Originally posted by ChemistBoy
    I got BBC and have just finished a PhD, so going to oxford or cambridge isn't the be all and end all academically either.
    I knew someone who did science was going to come along and say that. But I was trying to say that you don't need to be brilliant academically to be clever nor do the most academic always end up at Oxbridge or other top universities.
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    Well, I'm an ex-public school student and I wasn't trained to be any of those things
    depends which one, i went to winchester for 2 years before going to a grammar and i was trained at it a lot and I assueme that other top ones will do the same i.e. charterhouse and harrows. But it also happens at state grammars.

    But I was never trained to be competitive
    You don't get trained for that. It is the general attitude around my old school. When we were younger we were divided into sets for different abilities and there is strong competition to perform the best at school as well as sports etc.
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    I know you're not trained for it as such but its encouraged by the environment, I was just stating that at mine, which generally ranks in the top 25, there was never that kind of environment. It was more relaxed but people still did well despite the absence of it, it just didn't feel as pressurised as some schools are. I found it quite funny how the 'slow-moving bottom set', were all quite proud to be there (in a jokey way).
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    I think most top schools have a competitive environment both academically and in other areas such as sport. They also tend to encourage students into activities that are going to improve their public speaking skills such as debating and theatrical performance. This is all generally because the schools have the money and the lack of serious discipline issues to invest in these extra-curricular activities. However no-one is forced to do these things, so you are not neccessarily going to be good at them because you went to one of these schools.
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    (Original post by arkbar)
    No it's not, personally I wouldn't say that a degree in 'Sport' from Durham University was very well respected, and that's the third oldest university in the country.
    Sorry, which country are we talking about here? It is the 7th oldest university in the UK behind oxford, cambridge, St Andrews, Glasgow, Aberdeen and Edinburgh. Of course UCL and KCL are older but they didn't get their charters till after Durham (UCL's being blocked by the church of england due to the secularist nature of the institution).
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    (Original post by Pretty Boy Floyd)
    What if someone from an ex-poly becomes a barrister? (Which happens)

    If Barrister = Class A profession, but, ex-poly = second class university, then where's the logic?

    Some Cambridge Law students = Can't get a pupillage. (Obviously, less than those who do, but nonetheless)

    Some ex-poly Law students = Can get a pupillage (Obviously not as many, but nonetheless)

    If students were picked solely for their university, then by rights:

    Every class A profession in Britain = Totally full of Oxbridge students, thus, no Lawyer would be from an institution OTHER than Oxbridge.

    *Looks at chambers' websites*
    I know 2 barristers. 1 went to Nottingham Trent University, 1 went to Aberswyth, University of Wales (sp?). So it is certainly not unheard of to be able to go into traditional profesions from polytechnics. Indeed, Law is funny because the BVC and LPC courses have traditionally been held in polytechnics - Hence why you will find magic circle firms sending their Oxbridge graduates to the Law school at NTU.

    I think in certain profesions, Law is a good example and IB probably another there is a presumption against poly graduates. However, people from 'traditional' universities are deluding themselves in thinking the presumption works in their favour. The distinction really is between oxbridge and the rest - I doubt recruiters sit there going well X went to Manchester which is 5th but Y went to Nottingham which is 11th thus well have X. Or even X went to Birmingham which is 15th so we will have him over Y from Brookes which is 40th.*Fictitious rankings.

    A graduate recruiter once told me as a friend, completely off the record and when I wasnt applying there so he had no reason to lie, that all he does is make sure the university reaches a certain threshold and once that is acheived he is fine regardless of where in particular his graduates come from.
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    (Original post by Perfection)
    I know 2 barristers. 1 went to Nottingham Trent University, 1 went to Aberswyth, University of Wales (sp?). So it is certainly not unheard of to be able to go into traditional profesions from polytechnics. Indeed, Law is funny because the BVC and LPC courses have traditionally been held in polytechnics - Hence why you will find magic circle firms sending their Oxbridge graduates to the Law school at NTU.

    I think in certain profesions, Law is a good example and IB probably another there is a presumption against poly graduates. However, people from 'traditional' universities are deluding themselves in thinking the presumption works in their favour. The distinction really is between oxbridge and the rest - I doubt recruiters sit there going well X went to Manchester which is 5th but Y went to Nottingham which is 11th thus well have X. Or even X went to Birmingham which is 15th so we will have him over Y from Brookes which is 40th.*Fictitious rankings.

    A graduate recruiter once told me as a friend, completely off the record and when I wasnt applying there so he had no reason to lie, that all he does is make sure the university reaches a certain threshold and once that is acheived he is fine regardless of where in particular his graduates come from.
    sorry but Aber is not a poly. It has like the oldest law school in Wales i do believe (1902 i think)
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    (Original post by mtbab)
    sorry but Aber is not a poly. It has like the oldest law school in Wales i do believe (1902 i think)
    I never said it was. Yet it has entry requirements similar to the other university I mentioned. Which was the point actually.
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    [QUOTE=Vincente]why did you got then, i forgot saying to explore the subject you enjoy as well. And don't tell me the main reason is the university experience then. I never said you have to go to oxbridge, I just said a graduate with good social skills and a good degree from a traditional university fares bestin the labour market.[/QUOTE]

    exactly what i'm trying to say. it's just the truth.
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    (Original post by DanGrover)
    Jesus christ, bex is a retarded monkey.
    ohh that was a constructive argument... but hey university of hertfordshire, what do you expect.
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    xx Bex xx that is not very nice, A lot of people work very hard to get into the unis that they are in and for you to say that is making you look about 5 years old..if that! Granted DanGrover's comment wasn't needed...but there is such thing as being the bigger person?

    P.S. Saying 'hey university of hertfordshire, what do you expect?' is not exactley a 'constructive argument' either...

    Don't put people down based on their choices.... as they are hard enough to make without other people making comments like that.
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    (Original post by tigger1430)
    xx Bex xx that is not very nice, A lot of people work very hard to get into the unis that they are in and for you to say that is making you look about 5 years old..if that! Granted DanGrover's comment wasn't needed...but there is such thing as being the bigger person?

    P.S. Saying 'hey university of hertfordshire, what do you expect?' is not exactley a 'constructive argument' either...

    Don't put people down based on their choices.... as they are hard enough to make without other people making comments like that.
    i wouldn't normally say that... i have nothing against the uni of herts of anyone who goes to it he was just being an idiot. sorry to you and anyone else i insulted, but he can f**k off
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    Sorry, which country are we talking about here? It is the 7th oldest university in the UK behind oxford, cambridge, St Andrews, Glasgow, Aberdeen and Edinburgh.
    England...

    Ok give me more example of this. (english institutions only)
    Fair enough, city university vs nottingham trent, or Hull vs Portsmouth or Plymouth.

    2 week work experience and retail doesn't count if you want to know. Most people go straight to university from 6th form so how on earth do they get experience.
    I knew summers existed for a reason....

    Well when theres 50 people fighting for a job and only 10 are interviewed why should the employer pick an ex poly instead of a say the other 42 civic univeristy graduates whom did just as well for their degree and show just enthusiam and other abilities which will be good for the job. It is when the 10 that is picked out that the person really counts and not the degree. Why do you think so many ex poly graduates are now in non graduate jobs.
    Because they're a good applicant irregardless of the educational institution which they attended?

    ohh that was a constructive argument... but hey university of hertfordshire, what do you expect.
    Dear xxBexxx, were you ever going to reply to my post earlier? Otherwise I may be forced to say 'Gap year mfl student going to Sussex, what do you expect?'.
 
 
 
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