Best Universities for Computer Graphics/Animation?

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Nice one behappy!

Both uni's are pretty kickass so although it might be a hard decision you cant really go wrong with either.

And Dan working for a games company has got to be one of the best jobs out there, bravo :smile:

Although I would like peoples serious answer on what to do;
I had an interview at bournemouth 2weeks 3days ago, and they have said nothing, still. Should I ring them? I remember the guy saying something like ring us if we haven't got back to you in a week. I don't understand what's going on.. If i ruled they would have given me an offer by now, and if i sucked they would have rejected me by now.

I'm gonna see if i get anything from them on monday and if not then I'll ring them on tuesday. I think they've forgotten me which, you know is always nice for your self esteem.

Reply 561

TashanLewis

orb

I'm gonna see if i get anything from them on monday and if not then I'll ring them on tuesday. I think they've forgotten me which, you know is always nice for your self esteem.

In my opinion i'd say ring them so you know where you stand.

Reply 562

SuperhansFavouriteAlsatian

orb

And Dan working for a games company has got to be one of the best jobs out there, bravo :smile:

Heh, thanks, but it's only an interview at the moment! They do say that in this industry, interviews are mostly used to just do character checks and make sure you're basically a happy, normal person and not some nutter. Still, I obviously don't want to count my chickens before they hatch, so we'll see!

If they said contact them within a week, then yeah, by all means phone them. It shows you care and want to be there, which can only be a good thing. Assuming you're not a nutter who starts demanding answers and stuff (and I'm sure you won't be, given you've taken the time to come here and ask for opinions!), I doubt they'll have a problem with it. That said, I think it's impossible for them to "forget" you per se because it's all digital and online.

My guess - and it is purely that - is that perhaps they think you're border line and are waiting to see who else they interview. Sorry if this sounds mean - I have no idea how good your work is at all, or how you did on the tests - but it seems like a possible explanation. Good luck!

Reply 563

orb

Yeah ok thanks guys, tuesday is judgment day.

That doesn't sound mean dude I thought the exact same thing last week. They had another bunch of interviews last wednesday and I thought they might make a decision around then but, no.

Anyway im gonna kill zombies for 2days straight to take my mind off it.

Reply 564

Marink

I've got offers from Portsmouth, Bournemouth and Swansea.

Just got back from my Teesside interview today, they said they'd be sending me an offer, so I'm just waiting to here back from Sol at Herts, to see whether he thought the work I sent him was good enough for the course, I really hope that it was, Herts looks like a great course.

So where'severyone got offers from, and what have you picked as your uni's for firms and conditionals?

Reply 565

TashanLewis

Marink

So where'severyone got offers from, and what have you picked as your uni's for firms and conditionals?

I heard back from Bournemouth with a conditinal offer. I had interviews with Arts institue @ Bournemouth, Herts, Teesside and Ravensbourne...I turned em all down (withdrew application b4 I went to BU interview on 28th of Jan), cuz I only wanted to go Bournemouth Uni, risky i know but thats where my heart was.

So ive confirm my offer with BU as firm.

hola

Reply 566

Ashtonised

@orb.
aye just give them a ring if you want. its nice to know whats going on and to help you know where you stand.

I rang 8 days after the interview date, and sharen said that i was given 'wrong information' about the whole 'finding out' within a week. as they have two, three more weeks of interviews left and with that they can compare who they would take on over who. so ignorance wise they are actually thinking about you more than the average applicant. :smile:

I cant figure out who you were on the interview day though. i remeber a few guys faces and then the lasses. but aye just give them a ring on how the process is going if you want to. your going to be hearing from them soon cos all the unis have to give their information on who they want to offer by the 17th of march? or something. so your going to hear soon anyways.

Reply 567

Deadfish41

tomdrum6

went to some studios today, cant wait to finish the course with such varied skills and work in one of those places.

told you, you'l love visiting the studio's :smile:

Claudia never got back to me, so i didnt get a chance to go on the trip with you guys! Double negative looks like a great place to work doesnt it??

I've posted this up on the ncca forum, but as its dead and quite useless, i thought i'd share my 2nd year group animation here as well.

http://www.vimeo.com/3383698

oh, and I never came up with the idea, i was put in this group as my pitch wasn't selected :frown:

lol hope you like it.

Reply 568

tomdrum6

woooah high quality, very impressive. nice job.

were you guys one of the groups who already new maya etc? I saw the butterfly animation from the first year groups and that was better than alot of 3rd year stuff.

And double negative looks great. the work they did on dark knight was incredible.

Whats the quality of the other group projects like?

Reply 569

Deadfish41

Thanks alot :smile:

the butterfly animation (chasing dreams) was great! Dzung was the director for that, and was also in my group. I did a little maya before the course, but no where near his standard. He modelled the elephant and tree, as well as texturing and rendering.

Tasha has uploaded hers to facebook, and it looks really professional.
I think some groups are improving on what they presented still before they upload online.

another groups work is on youtube though,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZXfw9m9Afo they had to rush it in the end, and cut out a lot of work.
the overall standard was really good yeah. When they all start posting online ill let you know of the links if you want.

Reply 570

SuperhansFavouriteAlsatian

Very nice stuff, Dan!

Reply 571

TashanLewis

Wow Dan Your Group Did One Amazing Job Man...quality Is High And The Animation Has Improved Compared To The Pedlar One You Showed Me Last Time. Impressive Man. Gets Me Excited Cant Wait To Start In Septermber!

Reply 572

behappy8

Thanks everyone for your good wishes :smile:

Orb, ring them on Monday, just say it's well over 2 weeks now that you've been waiting and getting worried so ringing up to check. There's no harm done really, you just want to know what their decision is - hope they haven't forgotten about you.

DanGrover

behappy8:

Well done indeed to your daughter! As for which she should do, obviously it's something only she can decide, but it's worth considering this; What she chooses now will ultimately change her life. Obviously there are lots of places you can go with either degree, many of which overlap, and if you wanted to, I'm sure you could come out of Herts with the skills to be a technical director and come out of BU with the reel to become an animator. That said, they both have their strengths and these shouldn't be ignored - as such, what she should choose is about more than simply what she'd be best at, and also ultimately on what she wants to do, because at the end of the day (in my opinion, at least) if she'd rather end up doing one job (be it arty or techy) over the other, then she should choose that degree irrespective of what she'll find harder. In the illustrious words of on of my Herts lecturers (who may well have interviewed your daughter), "There's a reason why 3D pays better than washing dishes - it's hard."

On a slightly more buzzy not, today's been good for me. I've managed to get a job interview at a games company for an artist position, and I spent tonight lazing in and around a pub on Carnaby street with a bunch of Herts alumni who're well established in the industry, schmoozing. In fact, I daresay that half of the films you watched from past students were made by people there tonight. There's a great atmosphere around everyone, I love it. Wee! (The drinking goes some way to explain any weird spelling mistakes or dodgy sentences in this post. If you find any, I apologise.)

Hi Dan, good one on getting a job interview at a games company, it's a very good start for thinking ahead of time. Have you done your final year project already?

You're doing 3D right at UH but now wants to get into games? Or are you more interested in working in games than 3D? Sorry for being ignorant on animation. Is there any website which can tell me all about what an animation company do?

What speciality are you interested in doing when you finish your degree? The lecturer who talked to us the other day said that companies will come to your final year exhibition to look at films and to recruit? Not all final year projects will be shown at the final year exhibition. Is this true? Who are the companies that come to recruit and for what roles mainly?

Do you get to do a work placement at all?

What does a Technical Director do?

Are there different types of animators?

Sorry for all these questions, Dan but I don't know who to ask. Thank you in advance. :smile:

Reply 573

behappy8

Deadfish41

I've posted this up on the ncca forum, but as its dead and quite useless, i thought i'd share my 2nd year group animation here as well.

http://www.vimeo.com/3383698

oh, and I never came up with the idea, i was put in this group as my pitch wasn't selected :frown:

lol hope you like it.

Hi Dan, I like your animation better than Tasha's at youtube. Looks very good.

Please can you advice and tell me how you're finding your course at BU?
Why are they teaching you programming etc. more than character animation?
If Maya can animate your story than why are you learning programming? Or have I got it all wrong.

Sorry for all the questions as I haven't got a clue (only that my daughter wants to do animation) as to why BU teaches computer programming for animation and other universities don't? Is there a high drop out rate within the 1st year?

We met this guy at the BU Open Day and he showed us his end of year project - "Jam" on his iphone or something and it was truely amazing! We later found it on the web and watch it again as we love the show reel. He told us he had 7 job offers but turned it all down as he decided to study a Master degree instead!

Thanks for your help in advance. :smile:

Reply 574

SuperhansFavouriteAlsatian

No problem at all for the questions!

behappy8

Hi Dan, good one on getting a job interview at a games company, it's a very good start for thinking ahead of time. Have you done your final year project already?

Thanks! And I'm doing it now, along with another guy on the course. It's a short film called Static, and we have a production blog here, if you're interested in checking out the progress! We haven't updated the blog in a while actually, but we're beavering away!

You're doing 3D right at UH but now wants to get into games? Or are you more interested in working in games than 3D? Sorry for being ignorant on animation. Is there any website which can tell me all about what an animation company do?

It's a sort of complicated situation - there are certain people that Games companies need, and certain people that Film/TV/Ads need, and then there are ones that they both need. For example, they both need people who can model in 3D, texture in 3D, animate in 3D etc, technical directors. But then games companies need people who can do other stuff like user interface design, coding (though that's basically irrelevant to us) and also work under a lot more technical restraints, which is why games now days don't look like Pixar! Film, on the other hand, have loads of dedicated lighting artists which games companies are only just getting now. Likewise, they use much more complicated shaders (essentially the "material" that 3d objects are based on) and rendering techniques.

Ultimately, it means that a lot of skills are transferable. I'm doing the 3D course and we do have a games course, but there's not tonnnnns of difference in them really. The games guys make a trailer rather than a film, and they tend to have limitations on what they can do (ie, the mesh that makes up the 3d objects needs to only have a certain number of polygons, the textures can only be so big, etc) but ultimately if you can do one, you can usually do the other quite well, or you could given a small bit of on the job training. I love both games and film stuff, and would be happy to work on both - this has just come along first, and they sound like an excellent company, so I'd be very happy to go there.

What speciality are you interested in doing when you finish your degree? The lecturer who talked to us the other day said that companies will come to your final year exhibition to look at films and to recruit? Not all final year projects will be shown at the final year exhibition. Is this true? Who are the companies that come to recruit and for what roles mainly?

In the last several years our end of year show has ramped up considerably. We've had a lot of big name companies here in the last years - Double Negative, The Mill, Framestore (all film and TV visual effects), Kuju (games), Rare (Games), as well as independant animators and artists such as Graham Ralph and others. This year we've also had regular visits from industry people, like games and film companies giving us talks about their processes and companies (in fact, the games company I have the interview with were one of them). As for recruitment, yes, a lot of people do get picked up at this event, but the numbers can be a little misleading - at the end of the day, the films that get chosen are the best ones. Whether or not they get hired because they were shown can obviously never be known, but I'd suggest that the correlation is between the quality of the film and getting hired - that they're shown at the end of year show is merely an indication they are, indeed, higher quality.

Typically, the films shown are mostly 3rd years with a few 2nd years thrown in, but it's all change at the moment, because last year was the first time there has been a Games and 2D course load of people making films (owing to them both being new courses) so some of those got shown - this year, there will be both a 3rd and 2nd year of each of those to match the 3D course. Add to this the fact that the year groups do vary quite a lot in size, and it's very difficult to predict example who many films will be shown each year, nor roughly how many from each year group/discipline. The idea, though, is basically that it's meritocratic - if there were no good 3rd year films, then none would be shown. This is rarely the case, but it means that getting in is quite competitive. Fingers crossed Static will get in, but as I say, it's not the end of the world if your film doesn't.

Do you get to do a work placement at all?

Not as a matter of course, but if you can negociate your own one, the staff welcome you to do so and are happy to have you take a year out of studying to do it. A good friend of mine on the course did just that, living in Liverpool for a year and working at a company up there. He was the year above me, but now has rejoined the course so we're both in 3rd year. Summer placements are also encouraged, and in fact one of my lecturers managed to get me and a few other classmates some work experience at a small studio in London this summer, paid as well. It was a case of the studio needing some work done quick, so they emailed our lecturer for some names. He sent them a list of the students in 2nd year (as it was the summer, so people who were in 3rd year were technically no longer at the university) who he thought could cope with a studio environment, and about 5 of us got picked. It was only a week, but it was a good experience and got a little bit of pocket money, so can't complain!

What does a Technical Director do?

It's a very catch-all term meaning "techy person" really. It'll vary considerably from place to place and discpline to discpline. For example, you could be a technical director who specialises in hair and furr rendering, which would mostly be applicable to a film studio. Games technical directors, though, might be people working with the physics engine or scripting engine to make set pieces happen in the game. Then you get TD's who will need to be at both, such as people who make 'rigs' (these are skeletons that basically are what the animator's use to animate with, which different bones affecting different parts of the mesh). Ultimately, they bridge the gap between the artists and the really technical full on C++ coder people who in games will write the engines, and in film will code tools and code shaders. As such, Bournemouth is a great place to go if you wish to be a TD, as they lean more towards the technical side.

Are there different types of animators?

Actual animators, not so much - animation is a very specialised area of the subject that, contrary to the various degree names, are not taken up by a great deal of people. Whilst my animation is passable, it's not my passion and I have no intention of actually becomming an animator. Animators will be the ones who move the characters around - other than that, you have modellers and texture artists (who often will be the same people - these are the ones who actually make the 3D assets and then make them look pretty), you having lighting artists who do in 3D what lighting people do on real, physical film studios. You have compositors who put it all together and make it look all fancy. You have the technical directors, you have render specialists, etc etc. There are a LOT of areas you can go into, and typically people will move around a little bit in all of these - actual animation is really the only one where that's what you do, and it's ALL you do.

Sorry for all these questions, Dan but I don't know who to ask. Thank you in advance. :smile:

No problem! It's all a lot to take in, I know. It's a complicated and bizarre industry, and the tricky thing is not only is it so fast moving, but as I'm sure you've discovered, there is no authoritative resource on the subject. This sort of makes it exciting though - it really is an industry where if you work hard to get the relevant skills, you can just get out there, network, chat to the right people over a few beers and end up with a job. Lovely!

Reply 575

Deadfish41

behappy8

ah yes. "jam" by peter claes, is quite amazing i thought. the guy is a genius and very technically minded. he also works as a demonstrator for one of my lessons (helping out students when they're stuck half way through a lab session).

Myself, personally am loving the course at bournemouth. Sometimes i do feel it is a little too technical, but thats because im not so great at the programming side.
They dont actually teach us properly how to animate ive found. They give us the basic understandings and principles, and show us some techniques. Also we have had people from disney who have had workshops with us, teaching us how to animate in 2D. The majority of learning Maya we do is actually tought by ourselves. Im not sure how things work at Herts, but im guessing its like that at most places. All the specifics you want to do will most probably have to be researched and tought by yourself.

Why are they teaching us programming??

because programming is a HUGE part of the industry. writing simple lines of code can save you time whilst doing something in maya. Procedural texturing/animation and effects etc can be sped up with the knowledge of some programming. Tasha's animation, whcih is up on facebook, so im not sure if you would be able to see it, is incredibly technical.

(http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/video/video.php?v=72235465816)

We also learn how a computer works from the simple electrical components to the operating systems which do all the hard work. Again you might think whats the point in this, but we are told... the same reason we learn life drawing for art, is the same reason we need to know the technical basics for programming.

Within Maya, they have their own scripting language, as well as Python. This is quite powerful, and so useful for speeding little jobs up. Writing expressions in maya to control different objects also saves a lot of time too. At start you'll be thinking whats the point, but in the end you'll notice all the benifits.

Hope that helps a bit :smile:

Dan.

Reply 576

SuperhansFavouriteAlsatian

It does sound fairly similar, Dan. At Herts in the first year we'll learn the super basics of 2D animation (ball bouncing, bag of flour walking etc) as well as super basic 3D animation (robot arms moving, linking etc). Then in 2nd year we have a dedicated animation module, where we go through the theory (curves, timing, anticipation, overshoot etc) and then each lecture we'll go through one or two showreel staples - walk cycle, run, jump, pushing a box, climbing a ladder, small sketch scenes, lip syncing etc. We'll then have to submit a showreel of these that we've done. Beyond that, we get no actual lecture - we don't get guest lectures exactly, but we have 2 ex-disney staff in the faculty who work part time on alternate days (husband and wife team, actually!) as well as another guy who's been in the animation industry for decades, all amazingly talented people. Between them, when we're making our films and pop into the labs, they'll be able to deconstruct a scene and give advice to totally rework it so it looks a tonnnn better. I think it works well like this, because so many people don't actually want to be animators that I think having anymore would get a bit tiring.

Reply 577

Deadfish41

cool, the disney workshop was a one off in my first year. We've had other professionals like storyboard artists who worked on the simpsons do sessions with us too. In the 2nd year we havnt had anything like that, just every friday a guest lecture from industry talks about there company, and the work they've been producing, and what they like to see from graduates applying for jobs and they're usually really interesting.

First year at bournemouth, we all pitch an animation storyboard based on these stories we're given to choose from. We then all vote on which ones we wanted to a part of making, the ones with most votes were chosen, and we're put into groups to start working on the animation. First term is all modelling, second term is rigging and animation.

In the third term we had to create a showreel of all the work we did in the first terms, as well as any extra things we've done in the year.

2nd year we've had a bit more animation practice. 20 second motion reference of any animal was fairly tricky, as well as our group project. We also have compositing, programming, specialist projects to crack on with too! fun times..

Reply 578

SuperhansFavouriteAlsatian

Yeah, ditto with the showreel - we have to make one at the end of 2nd year with all our stuff in it from the last year. Then, in the first half of third year, we have to make a showreel with all brand new (or considerably reworked) stuff in it in a specific discipline, rather than the 2nd year one which is more generalist. For the 3rd year one, it's recommended that you use mostly assets for your film, so that's what I did!

Reply 579

behappy8

DanGrover

No problem at all for the questions!

No problem! It's all a lot to take in, I know. It's a complicated and bizarre industry, and the tricky thing is not only is it so fast moving, but as I'm sure you've discovered, there is no authoritative resource on the subject. This sort of makes it exciting though - it really is an industry where if you work hard to get the relevant skills, you can just get out there, network, chat to the right people over a few beers and end up with a job. Lovely!

Thanks ever so much, Dan. You've given me a lot of info. so will take me a while to digest and understand .... ha...ha...

Had a look at your work - it's good and would love to see your finish product in due course. So, keep working hard and get those job offers in! :yep: