Masters/Undergrad Masters/Postgraduate -differences between them

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Klix88
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(Original post by jadys10)
Masters aren't postgrad, that's a phd
Masters are generally a postgrad qualification as you take them after you graduate from an undergrad degree. The exceptions are the 4 year degrees which incorporate a final Masters year, which are usually found in Scotland. They are very much in the minority.

You don't apply for a stand-alone Masters through UCAS. Each uni has its own application system. A handful use a central application system called UKPASS, but again, this is a minority.
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hellodave5
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(Original post by jadys10)
Masters aren't postgrad, that's a phd
Masters are post graduate...
Post graduate = after you graduate. You can only do a masters with an undergraduate...
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Helloworld_95
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(Original post by hellodave5)
Masters are post graduate...
Post graduate = after you graduate. You can only do a masters with an undergraduate...
That's not entirely true, there are at least three ways you can do a masters without an undergraduate degree. Those are if you have sufficient work experience in that field, if you're doing an integrated masters program, or if you do a masters as an intercalated degree for med/vet/dent students
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hellodave5
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(Original post by Helloworld_95)
That's not entirely true, there are at least three ways you can do a masters without an undergraduate degree. Those are if you have sufficient work experience in that field, if you're doing an integrated masters program, or if you do a masters as an intercalated degree for med/vet/dent students
Well of course, I know. But it still stands that usually (almost) always you need to have an undergraduate degree.
A masters degree is still a post-graduate qualification.
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punctuation
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(Original post by hellodave5)
Well of course, I know. But it still stands that usually (almost) always you need to have an undergraduate degree.
A masters degree is still a post-graduate qualification.
(Original post by Helloworld_95)
That's not entirely true, there are at least three ways you can do a masters without an undergraduate degree. Those are if you have sufficient work experience in that field, if you're doing an integrated masters program, or if you do a masters as an intercalated degree for med/vet/dent students
Yeah, regardless of whether you literally have an undergraduate degree, the fact is that a (one year, rather than undergraduate four year integrated) master's is certainly a postgraduate degree that you apply to outside UCAS.
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jadys10
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I wasn't exactly wrong, I think.
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Klix88
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(Original post by jadys10)
I wasn't exactly wrong, I think.
That refers to the UKPASS system I mentioned earlier and undergrad Masters courses. Those are the minority of Masters courses.
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jadys10
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(Original post by Klix88)
That refers to the UKPASS system I mentioned earlier and undergrad Masters courses. Those are the minority of Masters courses.
I'm not doing masters yet, this is what I was told from a friend :/
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jelly1000
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(Original post by Klix88)
Masters are generally a postgrad qualification as you take them after you graduate from an undergrad degree. The exceptions are the 4 year degrees which incorporate a final Masters year, which are usually found in Scotland. They are very much in the minority.

You don't apply for a stand-alone Masters through UCAS. Each uni has its own application system. A handful use a central application system called UKPASS, but again, this is a minority.
Sorry to be pedantic but 4 year Undergraduate Masters degrees are common in England/Scotland/Wales- many unis offer MMath, MEng, MChem e.c.t and in Scotland they are 5 years as standard degrees are 4 years.
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El Salvador
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(Original post by jadys10)
Masters aren't postgrad, that's a phd
Masters are postgraduate studies unless you're referring to undergraduate masters. Even a postgraduate certificate or a pre-master course is considered postgraduate studies.
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El Salvador
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(Original post by Klix88)
Masters are generally a postgrad qualification as you take them after you graduate from an undergrad degree. The exceptions are the 4 year degrees which incorporate a final Masters year, which are usually found in Scotland. They are very much in the minority.

You don't apply for a stand-alone Masters through UCAS. Each uni has its own application system. A handful use a central application system called UKPASS, but again, this is a minority.
+ Undergraduate masters also exist at Oxbridge. And Oxbridge also give out MAs to BAs after a certain amount of time with no studies.
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El Salvador
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(Original post by hellodave5)
Masters are post graduate...
Post graduate = after you graduate. You can only do a masters with an undergraduate...
Masters are obviously postgraduate studies, but actually it is not a must to have an undergraduate degree first before doing a master's degree. Some people can do it with work experience.
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El Salvador
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(Original post by jelly1000)
Sorry to be pedantic but 4 year Undergraduate Masters degrees are common in England/Scotland/Wales- many unis offer MMath, MEng, MChem e.c.t and in Scotland they are 5 years as standard degrees are 4 years.
This thread obviously is not about an undergraduate master's degree though.
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hellodave5
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(Original post by clh_hilary)
Masters are obviously postgraduate studies, but actually it is not a must to have an undergraduate degree first before doing a master's degree. Some people can do it with work experience.
I know! Rather rare though. Most courses require a 2.1 degree, 2.2 if you're lucky... even luckier if they will have you without one.
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El Salvador
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(Original post by Klix88)
That refers to the UKPASS system I mentioned earlier and undergrad Masters courses. Those are the minority of Masters courses.
The original argument there was on whether you can apply for postgraduate studies through UCAS, which you could because of PGCEs. Anyway...
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El Salvador
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(Original post by hellodave5)
I know! Rather rare though. Most courses require a 2.1 degree, 2.2 if you're lucky... even luckier if they will have you without one.
That's not true. Most master's degrees offered would ask for a 2:2 or even just an honours degree. Basically only RG universities (and not even all of them) with a couple of excellent non-RG universities would ask for a 2:1 or above. If you have extensive experience the academic requirement would be even lower.

And I wouldn't consider it 'lucky' if you got enrolled into a master's programme without an undergraduate degree. This probably means you either have really good work experience (which usually means you don't really need the master's to do anything and the university will be lucky to have you there) or you have lots of money to buy yourself one from a crappy university.
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hellodave5
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(Original post by clh_hilary)
That's not true. Most master's degrees offered would ask for a 2:2 or even just an honours degree. Basically only RG universities (and not even all of them) with a couple of excellent non-RG universities would ask for a 2:1 or above. If you have extensive experience the academic requirement would be even lower.

And I wouldn't consider it 'lucky' if you got enrolled into a master's programme without an undergraduate degree. This probably means you either have really good work experience (which usually means you don't really need the master's to do anything and the university will be lucky to have you there) or you have lots of money to buy yourself one from a crappy university.
I have never actually heard of anyone doing a masters without an undergrad, though I do know it's possible. I just thought it was rather rare.
Never seen a uni say they will take less than a 2.2 tbh.
Not sure what you meant about the undergrad masters btw, and the 'free degree' at Oxford or whatever it was.

(Original post by clh_hilary)
He's entitled to nothing because he's committed plagiarism. This is the single-biggest offence you could possibly commit at a university.
That's understandable.
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El Salvador
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(Original post by hellodave5)
I actually haven't seen these before!
Point the way bro
Off the top of my head, Oxbridge both offer at least:
Master of Biochemistry (MBiochem)
Master of Chemistry (MChem)
Master of Computer Science (MCompSci)
Master of Computer Science and Philosophy (MCompPhil)
Master of Earth Sciences (MEarthSc)
Master of Engineering (MEng)
Master of Mathematics (MMath)
Master of Mathematics and Computer Science (MMathCompSci)
Master of Mathematics and Philosophy (MMathPhil)
Master of Physics (MPhys)
Master of Physics and Philosophy (MPhysPhil)
Master of Earth Sciences (MEarthSci)

These are all four-year undergraduate degrees. Students submit only one dissertation altogether.

Alternatively, Oxford offers these master's degrees in the name of a bachelor's degree:
Bachelor of Divinity (BD)
Bachelor of Medicine & Bachelor of Surgery (BMBCh)
Bachelor of Civil Law (BCL)
Bachelor of Music (BMus)


These are actual master's degrees despite their names. Graduates can choose to have them awarded with the 'master' title should they wish to.

All other undergraduates at Oxbridge are awarded a Bachelor of Arts (and Trinity College Dublin, too). Seven years after matriculation (Oxford) or two years after graduation (Cambridge) these BAs got converted into Masters of Arts on a small payment to their own colleges.

These all are because in the past undergraduate studies took seven years, and people were basically awarded the BA when they matriculate and end with an MA in the end. The MA is also a 'status' especially at Oxford which entitles you to special rights, although most of those rights have now been extended to all degree graduates with the exception of vote membership at the University Parliament, where only MAs and DPhils (the Oxford way of calling a PhD) can vote. That doesn't actually change anything however, as all academics at or above the level of lectureship get an automatic Master of Arts. What people would consider MAs at Oxford are called Master of Studies (MSt). Alternatively, people can go for other master's degrees such as a Master of Science (MSc) or a Master of Philosophy (MPhil) (which sometimes could be a failed DPhil). At Cambridge, they have additional ones for their part-time degrees, such as Master of Education (MEd), when full-time students would be getting an MPhil instead.

---

Undergraduate masters are also prominent especially in the four ancient universities in Scotland, ie University of Edinburgh, University of St Andrews, University of Glasgow, and University of Aberdeen. They all take four years to complete, but I believe only apply to first degrees.

These 'masters' are not considered proper master's degrees for the simple fact that they do not require master's level work, nor do they have the same teaching/study focus/nature or a second thesis turned in.
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El Salvador
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(Original post by hellodave5)
I have never actually heard of anyone doing a masters without an undergrad, though I do know it's possible. I just thought it was rather rare.
Never seen a uni say they will take less than a 2.2 tbh.
Not sure what you meant about the undergrad masters btw, and the 'free degree' at Oxford or whatever it was.
I know plenty of people, public figures or not, going straight into a master's programme. One of the Chief Executives of Hong Kong, Sir Dr Donald Tsang, did a master's at Harvard University without an undergraduate degree (this is by work experience); one of the members of the Legislative Council of Hong Kong (the de facto parliament) did a master's and a doctoral degrees at London South Bank University without an undergraduate degree (this by money, presumably).

Off the universities I have cared enough to apply to, Institute of Education (No 1 globally in the field of education) and King's College London both list 2:2 as their requirement. In fact, the offer IoE gave me sets the requirement at having a degree, with or without honours.
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hellodave5
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(Original post by clh_hilary)
Off the top of my head, Oxbridge both offer at least:
Master of Biochemistry (MBiochem)
Master of Chemistry (MChem)
Master of Computer Science (MCompSci)
Master of Computer Science and Philosophy (MCompPhil)
Master of Earth Sciences (MEarthSc)
Master of Engineering (MEng)
Master of Mathematics (MMath)
Master of Mathematics and Computer Science (MMathCompSci)
Master of Mathematics and Philosophy (MMathPhil)
Master of Physics (MPhys)
Master of Physics and Philosophy (MPhysPhil)
Master of Earth Sciences (MEarthSci)

These are all four-year undergraduate degrees. Students submit only one dissertation altogether.

Alternatively, Oxford offers these master's degrees in the name of a bachelor's degree:
Bachelor of Divinity (BD)
Bachelor of Medicine & Bachelor of Surgery (BMBCh)
Bachelor of Civil Law (BCL)
Bachelor of Music (BMus)


These are actual master's degrees despite their names. Graduates can choose to have them awarded with the 'master' title should they wish to.

All other undergraduates at Oxbridge are awarded a Bachelor of Arts (and Trinity College Dublin, too). Seven years after matriculation (Oxford) or two years after graduation (Cambridge) these BAs got converted into Masters of Arts on a small payment to their own colleges.

These all are because in the past undergraduate studies took seven years, and people were basically awarded the BA when they matriculate and end with an MA in the end. The MA is also a 'status' especially at Oxford which entitles you to special rights, although most of those rights have now been extended to all degree graduates with the exception of vote membership at the University Parliament, where only MAs and DPhils (the Oxford way of calling a PhD) can vote. That doesn't actually change anything however, as all academics at or above the level of lectureship get an automatic Master of Arts. What people would consider MAs at Oxford are called Master of Studies (MSt). Alternatively, people can go for other master's degrees such as a Master of Science (MSc) or a Master of Philosophy (MPhil) (which sometimes could be a failed DPhil). At Cambridge, they have additional ones for their part-time degrees, such as Master of Education (MEd), when full-time students would be getting an MPhil instead.

---

Undergraduate masters are also prominent especially in the four ancient universities in Scotland, ie University of Edinburgh, University of St Andrews, University of Glasgow, and University of Aberdeen. They all take four years to complete, but I believe only apply to first degrees.

These 'masters' are not considered proper master's degrees for the simple fact that they do not require master's level work, nor do they have the same teaching/study focus/nature or a second thesis turned in.
Thanks for that! Very insightful!
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