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    (Original post by Big P)
    I think the lack of clear knowledge of what actually happened under saddam's rule leads us to guess at what types of torture they used and perhaps exaggerate.
    Look, little "guessing" is involved.
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    (Original post by aliel)
    For it to be "about oil", they don't necessary need it right now. Instead, of course they want a power structure in power that will not restrict it's future access.
    Of course one of the reasons they went to war was to get control of the second largest supply in the world. I think its foolish to assume that ALL power will be handed back to the Iraqis.
    Haliburton, shell and E$$O all have multi-billion contracts there. Bush's policy is to restock America's oil supply.
    That guy who was kidnapped in Iraq but later escaped was a Halliburton contractor!!
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    (Original post by Big P)
    Of course one of the reasons they went to war was to get control of the second largest supply in the world. I think its foolish to assume that ALL power will be handed back to the Iraqis.
    Haliburton, shell and E$$O all have multi-billion contracts there. Bush's policy is to restock America's oil supply.
    That guy who was kidnapped in Iraq but later escaped was a Halliburton contractor!!
    Exactly.
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    (Original post by Big P)
    How does anyone know what the figures would have been like under saddam. The only figures you get are from the americans and they are hardly objective.
    neither are those from the European press and sites like iraqbodycount
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    (Original post by aliel)
    No, why would he? He doesn't give a ****.
    what is he apologising for? unless you are now accusing George Bush of the murder of his own countrymen?
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    (Original post by aliel)
    For it to be "about oil", they don't necessary need it right now. Instead, of course they want a power structure in power that will not restrict it's future access.
    sounds like good political sense to me...
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    (Original post by vienna95)
    what is he apologising for? unless you are now accusing George Bush of the murder of his own countrymen?
    Lol, no. I was responding to the person who said that he wouldn't go to the funerals of Allied soldiers... Oh V.
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    (Original post by vienna95)
    unless you are now accusing George Bush of the murder of his own countrymen?

    I am.

    Not exactly murder, but he is sending them to their deaths every single day.

    (Original post by George Bush)
    Bring em on!
    In the words of Jared Ewy, "Our soldiers in the hotbed of hate and you say 'bring em on' to people who accessorise with dynamite!" It's ridiculous.

    And if Bush isn't to blame for their deaths... who is? The Iraqis? The people who are responding to the American occupation in the only way possible. Give them a gun with a single bullet and line up Bush and an American Soldier in their sights. It's an easy choice who they'd go for, given the opportunity.

    Further more, Saddam was more than prepared to let weapons inspectors in as the war appeared iminent - a chance for a peaceful resolution - Which Bush decided to ignore. All these deaths could've been avoided.

    Cheers.

    -Chris
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    (Original post by aliel)
    Lol, no. I was responding to the person who said that he wouldn't go to the funerals of Allied soldiers... Oh V.
    the reasons for any head of state to not attend funerals and the like is quite clear.
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    (Original post by Suarez)
    I am.
    a quite serious charge. and one that is totally false.

    Not exactly murder, but he is sending them to their deaths every single day.
    no, he is applying his armed forces to a situation as his constitutional role allows him. that is not murder. so, what has he to apologise for.
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    (Original post by vienna95)
    the reasons for any head of state to not attend funerals and the like is quite clear.
    In case he was blown up? Well, either way he doesn't give a ****.
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    (Original post by vienna95)
    a quite serious charge. and one that is totally false.



    no, he is applying his armed forces to a situation as his constitutional role allows him. that is not murder. so, what has he to apologise for.
    Well a rising number of americans would disagree with you..."his constitutional role" has involved deconstitutionalising everything
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    (Original post by aliel)
    Well a rising number of americans would disagree with you..."his constitutional role" has involved deconstitutionalising everything
    Example?
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    (Original post by vienna95)
    well lets ignore the 'perceived' figures by the Le Monde journalists harboured in Saudi Arabia, but indeed, Bush will never attend funerals or services for the loss of COALITION forces because there are simply too many....and why would he apologise anyway?
    Are you talking about apologising for the loss of life caused by the war or about the acts of torture committed by US soldiers.

    If you're talking about the former, I agree that he has nothing to apologise about as it is his duty to do whatever he thinks is in the best interest of his country. If he thinks going to war is in the best interest of his country, it is right for him to send his troops to war, knowing of course that some of them will die.

    If you're talking about the latter however, I disagree. I already stated my reasons in an earlier reply (#16) in this thread. Bush is the Commander-In-Chief of the US armed forces and as such he bears the political responsibility for their actions.
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    (Original post by aliel)
    Well a rising number of americans would disagree with you..."his constitutional role" has involved deconstitutionalising everything
    any examples..?
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    (Original post by Howard)
    Example?
    wow, great minds eh!
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    (Original post by zizero)
    If you're talking about the former,
    i am referring to that context yes.
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    (Original post by zizero)
    Are you talking about apologising for the loss of life caused by the war or about the acts of torture committed by US soldiers.
    I love this "acts of torture" argument.

    Yesterday, on my way home from work I bought a copy of the Orlando Sentinel. Do you remember the photo of the Iraqi wearing a hood with the American female GI giving the thumbs up and pointing at his privates?

    Well, the Sentinel identified this Iraqi as Abd (something I don't remember his surname)

    Well, to cut a long story short, Abd said that he was very humiliated by the experience. So much so that he isn't able to face going ack to his village. The shame is so much he'd really like to leave Iraq.

    Do you know where he said he'd like to go? His words were "I'd be open to an invitation to go to America"!

    Must have been a really horrific ordeal for a man to want to live in the home of his tormentors :rolleyes:

    And before anybody says "well that's just bias US press" it isn't. The Orlando Sentinel is sometimes referred to as The Slantinel by right wing commentators because of it's anti-Bush ant-war stance.

    So there you have it folks. A brutally tortured Iraqi wanting to live in America. :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by vienna95)
    wow, great minds eh!
    I'm sure we'll now be treated to some nonsense about the Patriot Act eroding the Bill of Rights. :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by Howard)
    I love this "acts of torture" argument.

    Yesterday, on my way home from work I bought a copy of the Orlando Sentinel. Do you remember the photo of the Iraqi wearing a hood with the American female GI giving the thumbs up and pointing at his privates?

    Well, the Sentinel identified this Iraqi as Abd (something I don't remember his surname)

    Well, to cut a long story short, Abd said that he was very humiliated by the experience. So much so that he isn't able to face going ack to his village. The shame is so much he'd really like to leave Iraq.

    Do you know where he said he'd like to go? His words were "I'd be open to an invitation to go to America"!

    Must have been a really horrific ordeal for a man to want to live in the home of his tormentors :rolleyes:

    And before anybody says "well that's just bias US press" it isn't. The Orlando Sentinel is sometimes referred to as The Slantinel by right wing commentators because of it's anti-Bush ant-war stance.

    So there you have it folks. A brutally tortured Iraqi wanting to live in America. :rolleyes:
    Perhaps "Abd" is not the simple mind you seem to think he is: The fact that some Americans harmed him does not mean all Americans will do so. Perhaps "Abd" is smart enough to understand that his torturers are not representative of the American population. Perhaps "Abd" is smart enough to avoid generalisations. Has that ever occured to you? Have you even considered the possibility that "Abd" might be an actual person who has had to endure unspeakable acts of humiliation, rather than a stupid opportunistic Iraqi who is using left-wing naivity for his purposes?
 
 
 
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