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ABORTION: Should the fathers have a say?? watch

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    (Original post by Lawzzzzzz)
    Yes I know - but on what basis? What factors are relevant? How MUCH the father wants it?
    It's not my place to say what is important. I just feel the male voice is not given enough priority. That is my point. If you wanted to know what factors might be useful ask someone better placed to give a answer that is not baseless (which is what I'd be giving you). I'd guess a psychologist, or social worker would be good people to start with.
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    (Original post by Tednol)
    It's not my place to say what is important. I just feel the male voice is not given enough priority. That is my point. If you wanted to know what factors might be useful ask someone better placed to give a answer that is not baseless (which is what I'd be giving you). I'd guess a psychologist, or social worker would be good people to start with.

    Fair enough - I just dont thinkt that there ARE any factors - it comes down to what other people want - it would be unprecidented to make such a law in this country - indeed if you are religious and about to die in labour - and a blood transfusion will save you and the child - the doctors have no right to give it to you - you can take yourself and the baby off to lala land
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    (Original post by Lawzzzzzz)
    Fair enough - I just dont thinkt that there ARE any factors - it comes down to what other people want - it would be unprecidented to make such a law in this country - indeed if you are religious and about to die in labour - and a blood transfusion will save you and the child - the doctors have no right to give it to you - you can take yourself and the baby off to lala land
    Oh I accept that reforms are virtually 100% guaranteed not to happen. Doesn't mean I don't think they should tho!
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    (Original post by Tednol)
    Oh I accept that reforms are virtually 100% guaranteed not to happen. Doesn't mean I don't think they should tho!
    I can just cant imagine a situation where the desire of a father to have a child should override the mother's rights ... I mean - its not to say the father has NO rights - but in practice they are never greater

    Once the child is born - im with you 100% though
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    Why shouldn't the woman be expected to carry the baby?
    She created it, so she has a responsibility to carry it through pregnancy, never mind she 'doesn't want to'. There are times when people have to accept the consequrnces of their actions.
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    ofcourse, in an ideal world the father would have a say. but its not really possible, at the end of the day, the baby is in the mothers womb. the father wont be the one carrying the child for nine months, worrying if evrything they are doing is safe for the baby or giving birth. and after that, its unlikely that no matter how much the father wants it, that they will do the same for the child...and whats to say that nine months down the line, he wont change his mind about the child...what does the mother do then???
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    (Original post by Joseph_SOUTH)
    Why shouldn't the woman be expected to carry the baby?
    She created it, so she has a responsibility to carry it through pregnancy, never mind she 'doesn't want to'. There are times when people have to accept the consequrnces of their actions.
    lets not forget that the mother didnt create the baby on her own...it wouldn't be there without the sperm either!
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    (Original post by Joseph_SOUTH)
    Why shouldn't the woman be expected to carry the baby?
    She created it, so she has a responsibility to carry it through pregnancy, never mind she 'doesn't want to'. There are times when people have to accept the consequrnces of their actions.
    Its not that simple. You can force someone to carry something inside them for 9 months because of their mental health, the way their behaviour with having this forced on them could hurt the baby etc, etc,
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    (Original post by calumc)
    Of course the father should have a say. A baby is 50% his so to deny him any say in whether it should live or not would be almost fascist.

    Yes the mother is generally the one who has to carry the baby and look after it after it's born, but its generally the father who has to pay for it regardless of whether he wants it or not!

    It might not be fair to lumber a woman with a child she doesn't want, but it's just as unfair to make a man pay for one he doesn't.
    Thats on an idealistic level.
    Look at it practically how can you force a woman to carry a baby she doesnt want. How can you force her to abort one she does. Through the courts?
    What are they going to do hold her down and force her to have it?
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    (Original post by calumc)
    There you go again. Forget the father completely.

    What are you going to do to the father if he doesn't want it? Pin him down and nick his wallet every week for the next 18 years?
    Well thats what they do pretty much, and its really frustrating that equality only seems to be for females, while if a man wants equality, its suddenly wrong.
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    (Original post by calumc)
    So-called "equality" has gone too far. It's getting to the point where the law is inherently against anyone who isn't part of a minority.

    Giving that I'm a white, straight, british male, of average height, average build, with brown hair, brown eyes, and is neither a child or a pensioner, there isn't really anyone on my side.
    Employers?
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    (Original post by calumc)

    Giving that I'm a white, straight, british male, of average height, average build, with brown hair, brown eyes, and is neither a child or a pensioner, there isn't really anyone on my side.
    You're screwed pal!
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    (Original post by calumc)
    So-called "equality" has gone too far. It's getting to the point where the law is inherently against anyone who isn't part of a minority.

    Giving that I'm a white, straight, british male, of average height, average build, with brown hair, brown eyes, and is neither a child or a pensioner, there isn't really anyone on my side.
    start up a league for normals
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    (Original post by calumc)
    So-called "equality" has gone too far. It's getting to the point where the law is inherently against anyone who isn't part of a minority.
    I'm sorry, but what a bunch of rubbish.
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    (Original post by calumc)
    Yes the mother is generally the one who has to carry the baby
    Generally?
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    The decision for a woman to have an abortion shouldn't, in any way, be up to the man who impregnated her. It's the woman's body for goodness sake! I mean if she doesn't want the baby and he does, she can't be forced to go through nine months of pregnancy and the pain of childbirth, and if she wants the baby and he doesn't, should she be expected to have an abortion against her will? I realize that sounds rediculous, but that's because there's no "half-way" decision - either she has an abortion, or she doesn't. There's no compromising, and therefore, the decision must lie with the woman alone...and rightly so.
    I agree that it's unfair that for a woman who wants a baby, there's really nothing stopping her going out and, well, making herself one (for want of a nicer way of putting it)...but that a man, who genuinely would love to be a father, has to first find a woman prepared to carry his child - and I can fully appreciate how sad it would be for such a man to have to stand by while a woman he had got pregnant had an abortion....but then, that's life, and it can't be helped.
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    (Original post by Howard)
    You're screwed pal!
    Yeah he really is, hold on, is he middle class cauz he'd get penalised even more.
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    (Original post by calumc)
    There you go again. Forget the father completely.

    What are you going to do to the father if he doesn't want it? Pin him down and nick his wallet every week for the next 18 years?

    The point is that it takes 10 minutes for a man to create a baby a woman has to carry the baby in her womb for nine months. Like it or not that gives a woman more choices over a pregnancy. You cant go through the courts and force a woman to abort a baby it would be unethical and the same to make a woman keep a baby. The woman carrying that baby has more rights over it thats the way it has to be.
    Are you suggesting that the man should have a right to LEGALLY abort the baby - signing a legal document before the baby is born saying that on his behalf the baby is unwanted and therefore forfeiting any rights over the child and the obligation to make payments for that child. Again problems arise that child will grow up and has a right to know who its parent is and could eventually seek the father out, the father would have to live with the knowledge that he does have a child out there, and finally the effect on a child growing up knowing that its father has aborted it could be devestating.

    I appreciate in an ideal world men should have rights over their unborn children but nature dictates that this is not an option, in carrying the child her body a woman will always have a superior claim and thats the way it has to be. There is no compromise there is no half measure thats nature and thats the way it is.
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    (Original post by viviki)
    The point is that it takes 10 minutes for a man to create a baby a woman has to carry the baby in her womb for nine months. Like it or not that gives a woman more choices over a pregnancy. You cant go through the courts and force a woman to abort a baby it would be unethical and the same to make a woman keep a baby. The woman carrying that baby has more rights over it thats the way it has to be.
    Are you suggesting that the man should have a right to LEGALLY abort the baby - signing a legal document before the baby is born saying that on his behalf the baby is unwanted and therefore forfeiting any rights over the child and the obligation to make payments for that child. Again problems arise that child will grow up and has a right to know who its parent is and could eventually seek the father out, the father would have to live with the knowledge that he does have a child out there, and finally the effect on a child growing up knowing that its father has aborted it could be devestating.

    I appreciate in an ideal world men should have rights over their unborn children but nature dictates that this is not an option, in carrying the child her body a woman will always have a superior claim and thats the way it has to be. There is no compromise there is no half measure thats nature and thats the way it is.
    No, im just saying he should have a say.
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    (Original post by calumc)
    No, im just saying he should have a say.
    Ideally I would agree with you but how can he have a say practically.
    If the woman doesnt want him to have a say how is it feasible?
    Its not discrimination its practicality. Whilst the woman carries the child she is always going to have the primary say in any decision and her wishes will have supremacy it cant be any other way.
 
 
 
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