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Schoolgirl arrested for refusing to study with non-English pupils watch

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    I haven't read this whole thread so I don't know if the veil issue is just a temporary sidetrack or a major one in this thread, but I'll say it anyway.

    Those who say its is not compulsory in Islam to wear the veil, so our women should not be allowed to wear it, are a bit wrong. Just because the Muslim Council of Britain says its not compulsory, does not mean that some muslims do not feel that they have an obligation to wear it.

    I'm Muslim, and dont live by what the Muslim Council of Britain says, nor do most muslims I know. They do not represent me, and have no right to speak of behalf of me, just as catholics do not want the many preists charged with paedophilia to act on behalf of them.

    Fact is, most British people can not even begin to understand the thought process that many women wanting to wear the veil go through leading up to their decision, so you can not possibly say that they do not have a right to wear it.

    And to those who say "we respect the rules of foreign countries when we are abroad, you should respect the rules of Britain": firstly, what the hell would we, Britain, gain from banning the veil anyway? Is it fun for you people to exercise your power on the vulnerable...thats called institutionalised bullying, and Britain will not stand for it.

    All you BNPs are doing is breeding more hate from young angry men and women, who are already a bit ticked off that you are slaughtering hundreds of thousands of our innocent brothers and sisters in other parts of the world.

    9/11...7/7..._? That next one will be the fruits of your labour.
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    Firstly
    (Original post by Lib North)
    Well for one, England isn't a country, it's a nation within the United Kingdom.
    Since when is England not a country? A nation within the UK it is indeed, but it is a country nonetheless.

    Secondly I am not Jewish and/or Israeli (as you'd see if you checked my profile for my name or photo).

    Finally, two points from this post:

    (Original post by Ö/\/\A® ©)
    And to those who say "we respect the rules of foreign countries when we are abroad, you should respect the rules of Britain": firstly, what the hell would we, Britain, gain from banning the veil anyway? Is it fun for you people to exercise your power on the vulnerable...thats called institutionalised bullying, and Britain will not stand for it.
    Has anyone said we should ban the veil? No. If people want to wear veils fine. But I think that if you go to a public school you follow the dress code. You cannot take a school to court because they told you not to wear a veil in the same way anyone could not take a school to court for being told they weren't allowed to, for example, dye their hair to an extreme colour etc.


    (Original post by Ö/\/\A® ©)
    9/11...7/7..._? That next one will be the fruits of your labour.
    So you are condoning this absolutely outrageous behaviour are you? This is why Muslims are vulnerable. Because a small minority go around preaching death to the west (Slightly off topic: but if the west is so bad why don't they go back where they came from then?) and claiming that these terrorist attacks have some sort of justification. Which they don't.
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    (Original post by Ö/\/\A® ©)
    I haven't read this whole thread so I don't know if the veil issue is just a temporary sidetrack or a major one in this thread, but I'll say it anyway.

    Those who say its is not compulsory in Islam to wear the veil, so our women should not be allowed to wear it, are a bit wrong. Just because the Muslim Council of Britain says its not compulsory, does not mean that some muslims do not feel that they have an obligation to wear it.

    I'm Muslim, and dont live by what the Muslim Council of Britain says, nor do most muslims I know. They do not represent me, and have no right to speak of behalf of me, just as catholics do not want the many preists charged with paedophilia to act on behalf of them.

    Fact is, most British people can not even begin to understand the thought process that many women wanting to wear the veil go through leading up to their decision, so you can not possibly say that they do not have a right to wear it.

    And to those who say "we respect the rules of foreign countries when we are abroad, you should respect the rules of Britain": firstly, what the hell would we, Britain, gain from banning the veil anyway? Is it fun for you people to exercise your power on the vulnerable...thats called institutionalised bullying, and Britain will not stand for it.

    All you BNPs are doing is breeding more hate from young angry men and women, who are already a bit ticked off that you are slaughtering hundreds of thousands of our innocent brothers and sisters in other parts of the world.

    9/11...7/7..._? That next one will be the fruits of your labour.
    ok the muslim council doesnt represent you and im guessing neither do the extremists who piloted planes into the twin towers etc. yet you assume that what the army does is representative of the opinion of the british people. i have to wonder if you actually venture out of your little community. did you not see the protests and polls that showed only about 50% (i cant remember) of the population actually supported the the wars you are obviously refering to
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    (Original post by Ö/\/\A® ©)
    All you BNPs are doing is breeding more hate from young angry men and women, who are already a bit ticked off that you are slaughtering hundreds of thousands of our innocent brothers and sisters in other parts of the world.

    9/11...7/7..._? That next one will be the fruits of your labour.
    Yeah, and you think young non-muslims arn't getting pissed off with your constant whinging and general piss taking. Next time something like 7/7 happens in this country its going to tip a lot of people over the edge and it's all going to kick off, and you'll all be the ones that will come off worse and it really will be the fuits of your own proverbial labour.
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    (Original post by gas_panic!)
    Yeah, and you think young non-muslims arn't getting pissed off with your constant whinging and general piss taking. Next time something like 7/7 happens in this country its going to tip a lot of people over the edge and it's all going to kick off, and you'll all be the ones that will come off worse and it really will be the fuits of your own proverbial labour.
    Actually, I strongly suspect you are right about that. Another incident like that and I wouldn't be surprised to see mosques going up in flames all over the place.
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    (Original post by Jonah Ramone)
    Firstly


    Since when is England not a country? A nation within the UK it is indeed, but it is a country nonetheless.

    Secondly I am not Jewish and/or Israeli (as you'd see if you checked my profile for my name or photo).

    Finally, two points from this post:


    Has anyone said we should ban the veil? No. If people want to wear veils fine. But I think that if you go to a public school you follow the dress code. You cannot take a school to court because they told you not to wear a veil in the same way anyone could not take a school to court for being told they weren't allowed to, for example, dye their hair to an extreme colour etc.




    So you are condoning this absolutely outrageous behaviour are you? This is why Muslims are vulnerable. Because a small minority go around preaching death to the west (Slightly off topic: but if the west is so bad why don't they go back where they came from then?) and claiming that these terrorist attacks have some sort of justification. Which they don't.

    No. Do you know what condoning means? I condemn it - I would rather kill 1000 of those terrorists that one innocent person.

    I said it will be the fruits of your labour. Do you know what that means?
    What I meant was "your" fault. And I don't mean you personally, I meant those people who call for the veil to be banned, or to not allow it as part of uniforms etc.

    I do apologise if you've got the wrong end of the stick. There is no justification for 7/7. What I meant was this xenophoibc behaviour is creating more of those extremists to attack our innocent people.
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    (Original post by high priestess fnord)
    ok the muslim council doesnt represent you and im guessing neither do the extremists who piloted planes into the twin towers etc. yet you assume that what the army does is representative of the opinion of the british people. i have to wonder if you actually venture out of your little community. did you not see the protests and polls that showed only about 50% (i cant remember) of the population actually supported the the wars you are obviously refering to
    My little community? I have never spent more than 9 months out of the year in this country, and rarely go to muslim countries. Half of my friends are non-muslims. I go to a school with less than 10% muslims, and live in quite a jewish area. And they're great. So I think I venture out of my little community more than you venture out of your little country village that is Kent.

    But nice of you to assume that because I'm muslim, I must live near Brick Lane or something.

    You're right, actually its more that 50% who disapprove of these wars. I am not attacking the British community as a whole. I love this country (on the whole), thats why I'm here. My comments were intended for those few who do support the wars, and those who were making comments saying that women should not wear the veil. If you read my posts closely, my point was about the veils, not the wars - I was just using them to help prove my point further, that this country is showing a lack of respect to a communtiy that is already angry, due to the wars.
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    (Original post by gas_panic!)
    Yeah, and you think young non-muslims arn't getting pissed off with your constant whinging and general piss taking. Next time something like 7/7 happens in this country its going to tip a lot of people over the edge and it's all going to kick off, and you'll all be the ones that will come off worse and it really will be the fuits of your own proverbial labour.
    you, my friend, are either an ignoramus or too lazy to think about the issue properly. We don't whinge, we dont take the piss. ON THE WHOLE we dont. I'm sure a small minority of us do.

    This "whinging" is actually comprised of very valid points, and if you had an ounce of compassion in you, you might realise that.
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    (Original post by Howard)
    Actually, I strongly suspect you are right about that. Another incident like that and I wouldn't be surprised to see mosques going up in flames all over the place.
    Me too. This is a very sorry situation. But do you (and I hope you dont) think that we deserve our mosques to go up in flames, when the vast VAST majority of us have done nothing to ever hurt anyone?
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    (Original post by Ö/\/\A® ©)
    Me too. This is a very sorry situation. But do you (and I hope you dont) think that we deserve our mosques to go up in flames, when the vast VAST majority of us have done nothing to ever hurt anyone?
    Of course not. I'm merely pointing out the inevitability of it happening.
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    (Original post by Ö/\/\A® ©)
    This "whinging" is actually comprised of very valid points, and if you had an ounce of compassion in you, you might realise that.
    Nah.
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    (Original post by gas_panic!)
    Nah.
    lol you're just hilarious mate. you're just proving that you cant be arsed to thing about this properly.

    I think that attitude is cool, but not productive concerning such important and sensitive issues.

    This intolerance you have for other cultures that you do not understand (and you dont need to understand them, just tolerate them), is a characteristic that I'm sure many petty rascists have who target muslim shops or whatever with bricks etc..
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    The whole story seems like there's a hell of a lot more to it - the story appears to have been brought to attention by the girl herself and probably twisted to her advantage. I kind of suspect that the other girls could speak some English but the English girl couldn't understand their accents and thus declared they didn't speak English - in a way that was deemed racist by her teacher.
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    (Original post by in-between-dreams)
    The whole story seems like there's a hell of a lot more to it - the story appears to have been brought to attention by the girl herself and probably twisted to her advantage. I kind of suspect that the other girls could speak some English but the English girl couldn't understand their accents and thus declared they didn't speak English - in a way that was deemed racist by her teacher.
    All rather speculative isn't it?
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    (Original post by Ö/\/\A® ©)
    My little community? I have never spent more than 9 months out of the year in this country, and rarely go to muslim countries. Half of my friends are non-muslims. I go to a school with less than 10% muslims, and live in quite a jewish area. And they're great. So I think I venture out of my little community more than you venture out of your little country village that is Kent.

    But nice of you to assume that because I'm muslim, I must live near Brick Lane or something.

    You're right, actually its more that 50% who disapprove of these wars. I am not attacking the British community as a whole. I love this country (on the whole), thats why I'm here. My comments were intended for those few who do support the wars, and those who were making comments saying that women should not wear the veil. If you read my posts closely, my point was about the veils, not the wars - I was just using them to help prove my point further, that this country is showing a lack of respect to a communtiy that is already angry, due to the wars.
    sorry i didnt read your post properly

    btw my nice little kent village is actually a medway town. on the news today it was put in the bottom 20% of deprived areas in the country and it has the highest teen pregnancy rate in europe. mmm nice

    my best friend before i moved to uni was muslim, she wore the veil for a bit but stopped just before she got married. (i used to live in a town with a large tightknit muslim community) we have drifted apart in the last 2 years but last i heard she was much happier having ditched the veil and started to take care of herself and her appearance. im not saing that its the same for everyone but she was hiding behind her faith and it wasnt healthy. i wouldnt stand in the way of anyones right to whatever they like but i admit it makes me uncomfortable not to be able to see someones face when i talk to them. i also hate the way ghettos seem to spring up around the mosques. everyone living in this country should socialise freely with people of different backgrounds and that includes muslims.
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    sorry i didnt read your post properly
    no worries

    she was much happier having ditched the veil and started to take care of herself and her appearance.
    I'm not surprised. I know only one young muslim who wears the full veil. Lets be honest, wearing the full veil takes away a large material aspect of life, which is unhealthy, and ofcourse it doesnt allow females (and I do apologise but its true lol) to receive that male attention that you all crave. I cant imagine it being a lot of fun for her never having guys look at her (except for when they're scared ****less).

    it makes me uncomfortable not to be able to see someones face when i talk to them
    that I'm afraid, IMO, is something you have to get over. As I said, you wouldnt be able to comprehend why some muslim women want to do it, its just a matter of tolerating it.

    i also hate the way ghettos seem to spring up around the mosques. everyone living in this country should socialise freely with people of different backgrounds and that includes muslims.
    Me too. Its a bit depressing actually. I honestly feel that the muslim community should do a bit more to solve that.
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    (Original post by Ö/\/\A® ©)
    No. Do you know what condoning means? I condemn it - I would rather kill 1000 of those terrorists that one innocent person.

    I do apologise if you've got the wrong end of the stick. There is no justification for 7/7. What I meant was this xenophoibc behaviour is creating more of those extremists to attack our innocent people.
    I can only take the part of the stick I am offered and in this case you offered the wrong one.

    Well then I would suggest you express yourself more clearly, because it certainly seemed that you were condoning (yes I do know what that means), predicting, even hoping that another incident was going to take place. It sounded like you were quoting Abu Hamza himself, such was the apparent tone of that part of your post.

    And it's these extremists attacking our innocent people who are causing this xenophobic behaviour. It's a vicious circle is it not? The only way to stop it is for full integration. If more than 50% of the population are thinking that the wars you mention are non-productive then thats good. But there will always be a minority, on both sides (if that is really a good analogy; comparing it to sides in a 'game' or 'sport') that will inevitably cause trouble for all the decent people from all religions who merely want to co-exist in this great country that is England. Yes, I still maintain it's a country It's a wonder we haven't heard from the genius who claimed it isn't a country.
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    it certainly seemed that you were condoning (yes I do know what that means), predicting, even hoping that another incident was going to take place
    sorry. not intended at all, but i still dont see how it looked like thats what I was saying...anyway forget it.

    And it's these extremists attacking our innocent people who are causing this xenophobic behaviour. It's a vicious circle is it not?
    Exactly, but I find it hard to believe British people are not intelligent enough to realise that most muslims have done nothing to warrant this xenophobic behaviour. We're much better than that, and if we can't see it, we're not trying hard enough.

    Vicious circle? Yes, but we can't control what the British people think of us as a result of terrorists' actions. Nor can we control the terrorists' actions, much. I admit we can fight to get rid of radicals in our mosques more than we do already, but that in itself is another HUGE and messy topic. To put it in short, its hard for us to want to help the police when every other person walking down Finsbury Park who is brown and bearded gets stop and searched. Trust me, if it happens to you a few times, you dont feel like helping the police out any more.

    there will always be a minority, on both sides that will inevitably cause trouble
    Perhaps, but going back to the main point, what does not allwong women to wear the veil do to solve that? Personally, I think that this much publicised veil debate only exists because the government want to appease the public and convince them that things are done to combat extremism. I would have hoped that British people are too smart to fall for that, and know that the veil has nothing to do with extremism.

    Yes, I still maintain it's a country It's a wonder we haven't heard from the genius who claimed it isn't a country.
    Definetly a country He's blatantly gone and looked it up on wikipedia or something and realised that he's wrong. He's probably in the process of changing his username right now...
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    (Original post by Ö/\/\A® ©)
    9/11...7/7..._? That next one will be the fruits of your labour.
    I read this first (don't ask why). I didn't bother reading the rest.
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    I have a hard time believing that story. It just seems too daft.
 
 
 
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