Life after the RAF
Hey. I'm really interested in joining as an Avionics engineer. The only thing that's concerning and worrying me are the prospects AFTER finishing service. I read somewhere that many ex-military stay unemployed or find it very difficult to get a decent job. I'm currently 20, so lets say I serve for 9 years, I imagine I'd be on a pretty decent salary by this time (40k-50k?), upon leaving, my impression is that I'd be stuck in a civilian job paying something like 18-20k a year. This is really a two part question, What is the progression like at the RAF? Where can I expect to be salary wise towards the end of my service? And the second part is, where can I expect to be career wise after service? Would I essentially be back to the bottom of the job market?
So. Where did you read about many ex-military being unemployed? Even if you did read this, I'd very much doubt that those unemployed would be qualified avionics technicians.
Do some research into wages and career progression in the Forces AND in civilian life. You need to start being realistic. If you were GOOD and progressing well you might be getting near 30k after 9 years
http://www.armedforces.co.uk/rafpayscales.php#.VIu70XvFmjw
Given all the other things in the Forces that don't come out of your pocket (subsidised sport, dental, medical, subsidised housing etc etc), it is an overall good deal.
Nearly all military-earned qualifications are either civilian or have a civilian equivalent so you'd have something solid to take with you when you left. You will have transferable skills.
Do some research into wages and career progression in the Forces AND in civilian life. You need to start being realistic. If you were GOOD and progressing well you might be getting near 30k after 9 years
http://www.armedforces.co.uk/rafpayscales.php#.VIu70XvFmjw
Given all the other things in the Forces that don't come out of your pocket (subsidised sport, dental, medical, subsidised housing etc etc), it is an overall good deal.
Nearly all military-earned qualifications are either civilian or have a civilian equivalent so you'd have something solid to take with you when you left. You will have transferable skills.
Original post by Envee
Hey. I'm really interested in joining as an Avionics engineer. The only thing that's concerning and worrying me are the prospects AFTER finishing service. I read somewhere that many ex-military stay unemployed or find it very difficult to get a decent job. I'm currently 20, so lets say I serve for 9 years, I imagine I'd be on a pretty decent salary by this time (40k-50k?), upon leaving, my impression is that I'd be stuck in a civilian job paying something like 18-20k a year. This is really a two part question, What is the progression like at the RAF? Where can I expect to be salary wise towards the end of my service? And the second part is, where can I expect to be career wise after service? Would I essentially be back to the bottom of the job market?
Good question Envee! The nature of a career with the Armed Forces now is completely different from when I joined and you could have easily expected to do 22 years or complete full service to age 55. However, with the last Defence review (SDSR 2010), the next one (SDSR 2015), changes to Ts & Cs, together with the forthcoming changes to the pension model and remuneration, the obvious intent of the MoD is to get you in early, extract as much value from you during your best years and get you out with the smallest financial commitment to the Department.
Under these circumstances, planning for life after a military career is essential for new recruits. As a technician, you will have gained some good quals, so if you’ve planned it properly, you should have no problems walking into any technical job (oil and gas in my neck of the woods are crying out for qualified techs, although that industry is quite volatile and very sensitive to the global oil price). As Stacks said, you would probably need to re-evaluate your RAF salary expectations downwards; it is good, but not as good as you might think, and of course during the period of austerity, there have been no (or tiny)pay rises for a number of years.
Progression up the ladder is dependent on a number of factors including your own performance which will have to show consistent improvement and willingness to take on additional responsibilities. That’s within your control. Outside your scope of influence is the manning environment for whatever trade or role you choose – some trades have notoriously poor rates of promotion due to historical anomalies in the rank ‘shape’ for that trade ie the pyramid structure bulges in the middle or is top heavy. Others are ‘dead man’s shoes’, but you’d have to ask focused questions on here or at the AFCO to find out what the promotion rate was for a particular trade.
In terms of job prospects in civvy street, the picture is not as gloomy as you might have been led to believe. MoD figures indicate that 96% of veterans find employment within 6 months, and that was the case for me. Unlike the majority of civvy employers, the military offer a resettlement program which is outstanding, providing the time, money and bespoke careers consultancy to enable the service leaver to be fully equipped for life outside, including the sort of holistic advice to obtain a job (eg search strategies, CV writing, Interview techniques) that most civvies would never get. It is up to the individual how effective this training is, and the program is no substitute for hard work on the part of the candidate. But for what it’s worth, I had 5 interviews from 6 applications, and eventually hit the jackpot with my current role, beating 20 graduates to the job. I have no doubt that, despite my age (over 55) I was successful due to the transferable skills I brought to the table. On the downside, although I have great job satisfaction, and a huge amount of responsibility and influence, I’m also working about 3 times as hard as I did in the RAF for about a third of the pay. So, yes, there is life after the military, but to get what you want, you have to do your research, know what you need (educational or technical qualifications) and set life goals.
You can rely on luck, but planning is so much more effective.
Firstly, I'd definitely recommend a career in the RAF if you're interested, and I'm not trying to put you off. That being said, unless you are the best engineer to have ever graced the RAF, stab all your mates in the back to get promoted faster than anybody else ever, your salary expectations are completely unrealistic. Think more along the 30k mark after 7ish years, if you're good enough to get promoted to cpl. If not think more like 25. But take into account the travel, I've been dog sledding In the Arctic, seen Jordan, parts of Africa, been skiing a few times, amongst the less glamorous destinations. Also the living costs, I pay around £25 a month for a room in the block, better than £500 rent and you can easily save for a mortgage doing that.
As the previous poster mentioned, it's not a life long career anymore and you're sensible to be thinking about it before you've even joined. I'm going through resettlement at the minute and it really is fantastic. I'm completely confident that I'll be looked upon much more favourably than many civilians in the job market because of my experience and transferable skills. Plus as I don't have a degree the government will pick up my tab for university fees, so that's what I'll be doing when I get out saving me 36k. So I'd say get in, get every qual you can out of the military, and get out when you've had enough using your newly earned qualifications and life experience. Good luck.
Posted from TSR Mobile
As the previous poster mentioned, it's not a life long career anymore and you're sensible to be thinking about it before you've even joined. I'm going through resettlement at the minute and it really is fantastic. I'm completely confident that I'll be looked upon much more favourably than many civilians in the job market because of my experience and transferable skills. Plus as I don't have a degree the government will pick up my tab for university fees, so that's what I'll be doing when I get out saving me 36k. So I'd say get in, get every qual you can out of the military, and get out when you've had enough using your newly earned qualifications and life experience. Good luck.
Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by oldmanstudent
Firstly, I'd definitely recommend a career in the RAF if you're interested, and I'm not trying to put you off. That being said, unless you are the best engineer to have ever graced the RAF, stab all your mates in the back to get promoted faster than anybody else ever, your salary expectations are completely unrealistic. Think more along the 30k mark after 7ish years, if you're good enough to get promoted to cpl. If not think more like 25. But take into account the travel, I've been dog sledding In the Arctic, seen Jordan, parts of Africa, been skiing a few times, amongst the less glamorous destinations. Also the living costs, I pay around £25 a month for a room in the block, better than £500 rent and you can easily save for a mortgage doing that.
As the previous poster mentioned, it's not a life long career anymore and you're sensible to be thinking about it before you've even joined. I'm going through resettlement at the minute and it really is fantastic. I'm completely confident that I'll be looked upon much more favourably than many civilians in the job market because of my experience and transferable skills. Plus as I don't have a degree the government will pick up my tab for university fees, so that's what I'll be doing when I get out saving me 36k. So I'd say get in, get every qual you can out of the military, and get out when you've had enough using your newly earned qualifications and life experience. Good luck.
Posted from TSR Mobile
As the previous poster mentioned, it's not a life long career anymore and you're sensible to be thinking about it before you've even joined. I'm going through resettlement at the minute and it really is fantastic. I'm completely confident that I'll be looked upon much more favourably than many civilians in the job market because of my experience and transferable skills. Plus as I don't have a degree the government will pick up my tab for university fees, so that's what I'll be doing when I get out saving me 36k. So I'd say get in, get every qual you can out of the military, and get out when you've had enough using your newly earned qualifications and life experience. Good luck.
Posted from TSR Mobile
Couldn't have put it better myself. Been in 9, planning on doing to the 12 yr point and possibly 20/22, if they don't make me redundant beforehand.
OP, it's a good lifestyle overall. It's not always the dream job, after all, everyone at some point will moan about what they do for a living, that's human nature. But £30k after 9 years is achievable, especially in the technical trades. Personally, I've skydived all over the world, skied in Germany and Austria, trekked through the Pyrenees and much more. That's top of working in interesting places and seeing/doing things that most civvies could only dream of. Would I do it again? Definitely! It's a definite alternative for university as like oms mentioned, if you don't get a degree whilst in the RAF (what I'm doing), they will pay for you to do it when you leave.
I think we should definitely be getting a proportion of the RAF careers budget!
Original post by AlphaTango
I think we should definitely be getting a proportion of the RAF careers budget!
Without wanting to be rude to the guys who work in the AFCOs, I've often thought that some of us are more useful to prospective candidates.
But, that's not always a good thing. Could we becoming too good a resource...?
Original post by Drewski
Without wanting to be rude to the guys who work in the AFCOs, I've often thought that some of us are more useful to prospective candidates.
But, that's not always a good thing. Could we becoming too good a resource...?
But, that's not always a good thing. Could we becoming too good a resource...?
I'm very wary of being 'discovered' on here. TSR is being monitored by people at Halton, according to some recruits who have posted.
I think that your point comes down to the calibre of people we have in the AFCOs. Many trades can't afford to release people to do these jobs so perhaps it is a reflection on the trades/personnel in those posts that a large number of potential recruits come here.
Original post by unruly1986
I'm very wary of being 'discovered' on here. TSR is being monitored by people at Halton, according to some recruits who have posted.
I think that your point comes down to the calibre of people we have in the AFCOs. Many trades can't afford to release people to do these jobs so perhaps it is a reflection on the trades/personnel in those posts that a large number of potential recruits come here.
I think that your point comes down to the calibre of people we have in the AFCOs. Many trades can't afford to release people to do these jobs so perhaps it is a reflection on the trades/personnel in those posts that a large number of potential recruits come here.
I've become more active here after leaving, so in that sense I'm safe, but I was spotted from pprune while on IOT.
But as I'm considering the Reserves it is something to think about.
As for the second bit, I think the crux is that the guys in the AFCO will know masses about their own trade and some general things, but between us we've got basically everything covered. We're also more savvy with the officer side of things, which NCOs at the AFCO tend not to in my experience.
Original post by Drewski
I've become more active here after leaving, so in that sense I'm safe, but I was spotted from pprune while on IOT.
But as I'm considering the Reserves it is something to think about.
As for the second bit, I think the crux is that the guys in the AFCO will know masses about their own trade and some general things, but between us we've got basically everything covered. We're also more savvy with the officer side of things, which NCOs at the AFCO tend not to in my experience.
But as I'm considering the Reserves it is something to think about.
As for the second bit, I think the crux is that the guys in the AFCO will know masses about their own trade and some general things, but between us we've got basically everything covered. We're also more savvy with the officer side of things, which NCOs at the AFCO tend not to in my experience.
You're not Typhoon93 are you Drewski? (Is he out of the sin bin yet
?) BTW good luck with the Reserves - was just reading a RUSI report about the Whole Force Concept this morning, and it seemed like a good idea ....... if only all the stakeholders had bought into it.
So many people, with so many good ideas to save money ..... all we need is for the military to be a business and it'll work brilliantly.
PS I no longer care whether anyone from Halton or Cranwell reads TSR. If the country requires my services again, then it really is up the creek with no paddles...........I can confidently predict there'll be no more boot camps for me
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Ikaruss
You're not Typhoon93 are you Drewski? (Is he out of the sin bin yet ?) BTW good luck with the Reserves - was just reading a RUSI report about the Whole Force Concept this morning, and it seemed like a good idea ....... if only all the stakeholders had bought into it.
So many people, with so many good ideas to save money ..... all we need is for the military to be a business and it'll work brilliantly.
?) BTW good luck with the Reserves - was just reading a RUSI report about the Whole Force Concept this morning, and it seemed like a good idea ....... if only all the stakeholders had bought into it.So many people, with so many good ideas to save money ..... all we need is for the military to be a business and it'll work brilliantly.
Aha, no, I freely admit to having had childhood asthma, but it's more the coke bottom glasses that prevent me from joining the two winged master race! That and never actually wanting to be a pilot...though I don't mind the watches.
It's a consideration. There's a reserve sqn out at Woodvale. Would need to get fit again first, but I definitely miss the life.
Original post by Drewski
, but I definitely miss the life.
Well that makes two of us mate - but my life was during the Cold War, when the RAF was about 3 times the size of today, we had er, lots of flying bases, aircraft types and Sqns and everyone knew what their job was, and did it well, operating under a common ethos ie work hard, play hard - or as a famous sign in RAF Germany said 'Our task in peace is to prepare for War - and don't you forget it"
I regret to say I don't understand or 'get' the business that Defence is today. Judging by the outflow rate and the rush to the exits, seems like I'm not alone.
Sad really.
I'm joining the RAF as a supplier and I'm a bit concerned of what I can do after the RAF in terms with the qualifications that I get , I don't want to come out and become a forklift operator or a tanker driver what other good paying jobs could I do with the supplier qualifications from the RAF ?
Original post by Macca960
I don't want to come out and become a forklift operator or a tanker driver what other good paying jobs could I do with the supplier qualifications from the RAF ?
If that's all you think it's going to be while you're in, why join?
You're joining as a Logistics Supplier. You will have the opportunities to work in a very broad field. Depending on how long you serve and how much you push yourself forward, you can work in:
- Fuels (vehicle, aircraft, associated oils etc) which means specialist training and skills. That includes handling and managing fuel and all that entails.
- Supply Accounting. That's the higher management of everything used by the Armed Forces. It's more desk work, but you use your brain a lot and it's great management skills.
- Warehousing and Stores. You could help run a huge warehouse full of millions of pounds worth of equipment, classified secret stuff. You could help run a smaller version on an aircraft squadron where you will be the person they rely upon for everything they need.
-Tactical Supply. Out somewhere refueling helicopters with no other support.
-Too much other stuff to put here right now.
It's a very broad Trade. What you get out of it depends on what you put in to it. I've known people leave after 22 years and be white van man. I've known people leave after 15 years and end up as a senior technology director for one of the biggest electronic game companies in the world.
I really want to do this job but after having a chat with my parents it made me consider what jobs are out there after the RAF and another thing that I need to consider is the financial position I would be in once I've completed my training and starting off on 17 and half thousand pound and the ability to fund a future family.
I don't know how old you are, how many kids you plan and how much you intend to spend in your life.
Pay in the Forces is pretty good really. You're food, accommodation, medical, dental etc is all subsidized or free. All the sports etc are free or very cheap. Progress up the pay scales is OK and promotion is also OK if you're good enough. You will not be on that much (plus all the other things I mentioned that are part of the 'package') money for long.
Actually - I've just checked. 17.5k is not wages for after training. An AC gets 18,125 regardless of pay band.
People in the Armed Forces can afford to have families and most go on to very good careers outside if they want to.
Pay in the Forces is pretty good really. You're food, accommodation, medical, dental etc is all subsidized or free. All the sports etc are free or very cheap. Progress up the pay scales is OK and promotion is also OK if you're good enough. You will not be on that much (plus all the other things I mentioned that are part of the 'package') money for long.
Actually - I've just checked. 17.5k is not wages for after training. An AC gets 18,125 regardless of pay band.
People in the Armed Forces can afford to have families and most go on to very good careers outside if they want to.
Macca, in a previous life I was aircrew on the world's premier maritime patrol aircraft. If I had my life over, I'd do it all again. As I don't, and that lifestyle will never return (even with the P8 coming in) I can only watch you lucky people from the sidelines.
I've given many people on TSR advice about the military. In 2016 looking to the future, my main advice to any potential recruit would be to look beyond a life in uniform and start planning for the world of work beyond the RAF. I firmly believe that the role of Logistics Supplier is probably the best trade to give you the most varied opportunities outside the wire - lots of different aspects and almost complete skill crossover to civvy street. With the skill set you'll gain, your self discipline and confidence, you'd be an asset to any organisation which relies on logs or supply.
Have a great career mate, and best of luck.
I've given many people on TSR advice about the military. In 2016 looking to the future, my main advice to any potential recruit would be to look beyond a life in uniform and start planning for the world of work beyond the RAF. I firmly believe that the role of Logistics Supplier is probably the best trade to give you the most varied opportunities outside the wire - lots of different aspects and almost complete skill crossover to civvy street. With the skill set you'll gain, your self discipline and confidence, you'd be an asset to any organisation which relies on logs or supply.
Have a great career mate, and best of luck.
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