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Hmm, wonder if knowingly giving blood whilst HIV+ would count as GBH if transmission occured... thinking it probably would, as there is no real difference between sex and blood transfusion (in the facts of HIV transference). Would you have to have intent of transferring for that though, or would the courts hold that HIV testing was so unreliable that it was an 'unacceptable risk' and thus you could be reckless by thinking it'd get picked up by the system? And if so, how about if you go and give blood, having a reasonable belief that you might be positive, with the aim of getting the HIV test?

Sorry, thinking aloud. It's a habit i pick up at four in the morning. But we seem to have a decent amount of lawyers around here so does anyone want to take a guess?
coaster
Is it right that gay men are denied the chance of giving blood purely because of their sexuality?


Can you catch being Gay from a blood transfusion ? :biggrin:

Perhaps they should only use their blood for transfusion to other gay men.
Reply 162
Crazy Mongoose
Hmm, wonder if knowingly giving blood whilst HIV+ would count as GBH if transmission occured... thinking it probably would, as there is no real difference between sex and blood transfusion (in the facts of HIV transference). Would you have to have intent of transferring for that though, or would the courts hold that HIV testing was so unreliable that it was an 'unacceptable risk' and thus you could be reckless by thinking it'd get picked up by the system? And if so, how about if you go and give blood, having a reasonable belief that you might be positive, with the aim of getting the HIV test?

Sorry, thinking aloud. It's a habit i pick up at four in the morning. But we seem to have a decent amount of lawyers around here so does anyone want to take a guess?


I was under the illusion there was a statutory offence in Englandandwales regarding deliberate transmission of infectious diseases...

Up here, I imagine it could be prosecuted as a number of things. Some form of homicide if they person died, obviously, since there is a direct causal link. Otherwise it'd be aggravated assault. If your argument stood that there was something less than full intent (I don't think it would) then it would doubtless be prosecuted as reckless endangerment/injury. As I've suggested though, I'm only qualified to offer a half-baked legal opinion with regards to the laws of Scotland.
Reply 163
paddylad
So would it be terribly wrong if I just lied? If I were tested and knew I was HIV free, why don't I just lie when giving blood?


Interesting moral question. If you're absolutely certain you don't have HIV, then I suppose it's fair enough. Then again, I'm not very good when it comes to offering moral guidance.

Why do you want to give blood so much anyway?
Reply 164
Lib North
Interesting moral question. If you're absolutely certain you don't have HIV, then I suppose it's fair enough. Then again, I'm not very good when it comes to offering moral guidance.

Why do you want to give blood so much anyway?

Because I think that it's the right thing to do, I think more people should do it. Also it's annoying when everyone keeps asking me 'well why don't you give blood?!'.
Anyways I wouldn't do it unless I was absolutely sure I was disease free. I mean personally I'm pretty sure I don't have HIV, but you never know.
Reply 165
As long as they go through the same screening for blood-carried diseases as hetero's do, then there is no scientific reason why not that I know of. However, for some the idea of receiving blood from a gay person may be, um, uncomfortable [NOT MY VIEW]. Other than that, I can think of no objection.
Reply 166
ukebert
As long as they go through the same screening for blood-carried diseases as hetero's do, then there is no scientific reason why not that I know of. However, for some the idea of receiving blood from a gay person may be, um, uncomfortable [NOT MY VIEW]. Other than that, I can think of no objection.


You've not read the thread either then?
paddylad
Because I think that it's the right thing to do, I think more people should do it. Also it's annoying when everyone keeps asking me 'well why don't you give blood?!'.
Anyways I wouldn't do it unless I was absolutely sure I was disease free. I mean personally I'm pretty sure I don't have HIV, but you never know.

but this is it, you can be aprt of a commited gay relationship, gay marriage even, and have a HIV free test for 3/6 months ago and yet still be invalidated because you are gat, versus a person having anal hetero sex.

is silly.
[and i'm not some big gay rights guy, am just joe 'hetero' public [with a cambridge degree in medical sciences...:p: ]
Reply 168
I suppose the broad exemption saves time and money which would otherwise have to be spent hearing individual cases and substantiating claims.
Reply 169
Lib North
I suppose the broad exemption saves time and money which would otherwise have to be spent hearing individual cases and substantiating claims.


So lets get extreme then shall we. HIV is rather prevalent in developing countries, particularly in Africa. Now, many of these people immigrate to Britain, and since we would be spending a lot of money interviewing them all, why don't we just ban all black people from donating? Obviously such a policy would be unacceptable, for the same reason that the current policy is unacceptable. The difference in risk is minimal, the stigma it would cause is severe, the implementation is dodgy, and the reduced amount of blood suplied is likely to cause more harm ( operations are already being postponed or even cancelled due to lack of blood ).
Reply 170
Jonatan
So lets get extreme then shall we. HIV is rather prevalent in developing countries, particularly in Africa. Now, many of these people immigrate to Britain, and since we would be spending a lot of money interviewing them all, why don't we just ban all black people from donating? Obviously such a policy would be unacceptable, for the same reason that the current policy is unacceptable. The difference in risk is minimal, the stigma it would cause is severe, the implementation is dodgy, and the reduced amount of blood suplied is likely to cause more harm ( operations are already being postponed or even cancelled due to lack of blood ).


We already have hugely broad exemptions for anyone who has even visited developing countries, never mind come from them.
Reply 171
Apagg
You've not read the thread either then?


Nope, too many pages. Should I have done?:wink:
Somehting stupid that someone said to me, but also made me think: "You want to be a doctor? But you're gay? What if you get HIV and accidentally transfer it to a patient?"

Now the person who said this was actually just being an ignorant homophobic moron, but perhaps by the NBS's rules he may have a point. The NBS said no man who has had sexual contact (protected or otherwise) with another man can give blood because of the possibility he may be infected. Should MSM be allowed to be doctors? What if they nicked a finger with a scalpel by accident, or something similar, and infected a patient?
Reply 173
Revd. Mike
Somehting stupid that someone said to me, but also made me think: "You want to be a doctor? But you're gay? What if you get HIV and accidentally transfer it to a patient?"

Now the person who said this was actually just being an ignorant homophobic moron, but perhaps by the NBS's rules he may have a point. The NBS said no man who has had sexual contact (protected or otherwise) with another man can give blood because of the possibility he may be infected. Should MSM be allowed to be doctors? What if they nicked a finger with a scalpel by accident, or something similar, and infected a patient?


Very well.
Revd. Mike
Somehting stupid that someone said to me, but also made me think: "You want to be a doctor? But you're gay? What if you get HIV and accidentally transfer it to a patient?"

Now the person who said this was actually just being an ignorant homophobic moron, but perhaps by the NBS's rules he may have a point. The NBS said no man who has had sexual contact (protected or otherwise) with another man can give blood because of the possibility he may be infected. Should MSM be allowed to be doctors? What if they nicked a finger with a scalpel by accident, or something similar, and infected a patient?


I think you'll find the NHS has very strict rules on blood transference, in case it happens the other way around...
Reply 175
Lou_
That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard!


:ditto:
Crazy Mongoose
Hmm, wonder if knowingly giving blood whilst HIV+ would count as GBH if transmission occured... thinking it probably would, as there is no real difference between sex and blood transfusion (in the facts of HIV transference). Would you have to have intent of transferring for that though, or would the courts hold that HIV testing was so unreliable that it was an 'unacceptable risk' and thus you could be reckless by thinking it'd get picked up by the system? And if so, how about if you go and give blood, having a reasonable belief that you might be positive, with the aim of getting the HIV test?

Sorry, thinking aloud. It's a habit i pick up at four in the morning. But we seem to have a decent amount of lawyers around here so does anyone want to take a guess?


Dica (2003) surely? You have the option of poisoning too. But I'm more of a constitutional lawyer rather than a criminal one.
Crazy Mongoose
I think you'll find the NHS has very strict rules on blood transference, in case it happens the other way around...

hahaha
strict rules my hair covered ass.

the rules are much more about post exposure than exposure.

unless you mean simple things like 'don't throw syringes with AIDS patients blood around. don't get blood all over your naked skin. don't inject the whole ward with the same needle.
NDGAARONDI
Dica (2003) surely? You have the option of poisoning too. But I'm more of a constitutional lawyer rather than a criminal one.


Well, thats where i'm basing the trasmission, yeah. So if i had intent to transfer it would be GBH (or, arguably, eventually murder). But would the courts hold donating blood to be a reckless act in the same way that having sex without a condom was held to be reckless in Dica? It is an 'obvious risk' but it is not particularly a significant one...

And then (the other crucial question) can we hold someone who is reckless towards their own HIV status and the saftey of the transmission, i.e. someone who has unprotected sex with fifteen different HIV+ men and turns up to the blood bank two months later looking to donate to this idea of recklessness?

'Twould be a fascinating case. Someone should bring it sometime.
Reply 179
Lib North
We already have hugely broad exemptions for anyone who has even visited developing countries, never mind come from them.


Again, 12 months.

For gay people, there is a blanket ban.
Have you actually seen the questions?

http://www.blood.co.uk/pages/flash_questions.html

Note the difference betwene the question regarding wether you have had sex with a man, or wether you have had sex with someone HIV positive, noting which of the two gets you banned for 12 months, and which doesn't.

Please do explain why gay peopel should be considered more of a risk than someone who has had sex with an HIV positive person.

I really doubt they have thought this through propperly, and if they have they have made decisions based on people's arbitrary opinons rather than real science.

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