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If I was one of her pupils I would have kicked of a fuss

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bradford/6050392.stm

I have no problem at all with muslims or religious clothing but viels cover up your face, this means that communication is very difficult. I have hearing loss and rely on lip reading therefore I could have probably threatened to sue for under the new accessability laws or somthing.

I just think people need to adjust a bit to live in a western society.

My feeling is that most muslims and other minority (relatively) religious people in the UK do this very well but you always get a few that don't.

It is the fact that you can't see this womens faces that I object to, I am sure chavs also have very strong belives that their faces must not be seen but its ilegal for them to wear balaclavas in public :wink:

Sorry rant over.

Edit just spotted a very similar threads on the same topic, so it seems to be quite a heated discussion point at the moment, maybe this one would be merged.

Hang on a minute, double standards...:

"But Ms Azmi later admitted she had taken the veil off to be interviewed for the job by a male governor. "

Reply 2

tbm

13

I really dont know what to think of this.

Personally, if I were one of her pupils, I would also prefer that the veil was removed.

I have no problem with religious clothing, but I do agree with the opinion that it sometimes can lead to segregation problems.

I do find this case a bit odd though with the fact that she says she wouldnt remove her veil because of male colleagues.... yet she was quite happy to do it at her interview?!!

To be honest I have been reluctant to comment about this case on TSR previously because I dont want to be accused of being racist/not liking Islam etc. Its nothing to do with that at all as I have no problem with it, its just common sense.

Reply 3

AT82

OP

This is the sort of thing I just don't get. I mean fine wear religious clothing I have nothing at all against that, scalfs etc are fine. My problem is when people cover their faces you have no idea who they are and the basic instint of human security is the fact you can see faces, its how you regconise people.

Reply 4

AT82

OP

Joystar*

I really dont know what to think of this.

Personally, if I were one of her pupils, I would also prefer that the veil was removed.

I have no problem with religious clothing, but I do agree with the opinion that it sometimes can lead to segregation problems.

I do find this case a bit odd though with the fact that she says she wouldnt remove her veil because of male colleagues.... yet she was quite happy to do it at her interview?!!

To be honest I have been reluctant to comment about this case on TSR previously because I dont want to be accused of being racist/not liking Islam etc. Its nothing to do with that at all as I have no problem with it, its just common sense.

Thats another thing I hate, people so scared about being accused of racist all the time, I know I am not racist which is why I have no problem making this thread, in fact this thread has nothing to do with race at all.

I know what you mean though.

Reply 5

Giliwoo

I think she is just being contrary, and wilfully "making a point".

Reply 6

mipmapped

13

This is the sort of thing I just don't get. I mean fine wear religious clothing I have nothing at all against that, scalfs etc are fine. My problem is when people cover their faces you have no idea who they are and the basic instint of human security is the fact you can see faces, its how you regconise people.

Exactly. Hijab is fine as far as I'm concerned.

I just don't like the niqab.

Reply 7

Giliwoo

If a British woman went to Saudi Arabia, in certain social settings she would have to cover her hair at least. But in this country it seems that such social compromises are not forthcoming from some Muslims. At the very least, this is just bad manners, and, in some ways I think can be interpreted as a pretty intolerant message to one's host society.

Reply 8

Juwel

18

And all this could be settled by forward-thinking religious leaders simply saying that the face-covering rule is outdated and impractical and a hindrance to the oh-so-crucial concept of communication. But Muslims love to hang on to the more trivial symbolic rules of the religion; as it is those that preserve at least the notion of a Muslim's unique identity. This is one of those instances where there's just silliness on both sides; the media is wrongly hyping the notion that the government doesn't respect a certain religious belief; and the Muslim community is unwilling to accept that maybe this rule is not for this day and age, and that the purpose of this rule is best fulfilled elsewhere.

Reply 9

kam

10

She should show her face to the children. Just so they know who their teacher is.

Reply 10

WokSz

17

cjmcnair

Hang on a minute, double standards...:

"But Ms Azmi later admitted she had taken the veil off to be interviewed for the job by a male governor. "

that is very hypocritical.

Reply 11

soup_dragon87

AT82

I just think people need to adjust a bit to live in a western society.

Absolutely, I agree 100%. Muslim and British cultures are different, simple as that. If you're going to come and live in Britain, there are certain things that you have to change to accepted into society.

Joystar*

To be honest I have been reluctant to comment about this case on TSR previously because I dont want to be accused of being racist/not liking Islam etc.

Excellent point. Just because someone is commenting/making an opinion on a religion or race, doesn't make them racist! Everyone is so afraid of potentially offending another person.

Reply 12

dan

11

Juwel

And all this could be settled by forward-thinking religious leaders simply saying that the face-covering rule is outdated and impractical and a hindrance to the oh-so-crucial concept of communication. But Muslims love to hang on to the more trivial symbolic rules of the religion; as it is those that preserve at least the notion of a Muslim's unique identity. This is one of those instances where there's just silliness on both sides; the media is wrongly hyping the notion that the government doesn't respect a certain religious belief; and the Muslim community is unwilling to accept that maybe this rule is not for this day and age, and that the purpose of this rule is best fulfilled elsewhere.

I'd like to point out that there isn't actually a religious rule on this anywhere. It has simply been a custom adopted by the people.

Reply 13

Giliwoo

danglenister

I'd like to point out that there isn't actually a religious rule on this anywhere. It has simply been a custom adopted by the people.

I seem to remember a very specific verse in the Qur'an requiring women to cover their hair and hands, and to dress modestly unless in the presence of family.

Reply 14

dan

11

Giliwoo

I seem to remember a very specific verse in the Qur'an requiring women to cover their hair and hands, and to dress modestly unless in the presence of family.

Interesting. Out of interest, does it say anything about covering everything minus the eyes?? I'm sure it doesn't.

Reply 15

magicbuspass

12

Well, i have no quwestion of her religious rights to wear what she wishes to, but in a school with children who have needs? Those children probably rely on lip movements and facial expressions, not a piece of cloth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by danglenister
I'd like to point out that there isn't actually a religious rule on this anywhere. It has simply been a custom adopted by the people.

I seem to remember a very specific verse in the Qur'an requiring women to cover their hair and hands, and to dress modestly unless in the presence of family.

I did her the Burqa was made to control woman in Afghanistan, anyway i thiok there was an article somewhere, i might go and find it.

Reply 16

Juwel

18

There is something about a woman and a man who are neither related nor married not being allowed in the same room; perhaps the custom of the veil has replaced this rule?

And there is definitley a rule about coverage of all but the face; whether and where this extends to all but eyes I can't say for sure.

Reply 17

The Green Manalishi

1

danglenister

I'd like to point out that there isn't actually a religious rule on this anywhere. It has simply been a custom adopted by the people.

There is a debate as to whether it's compulsory or not, but i'm of the opinion that it's definitely better. As to whether it's compulsory or not, let the scholars give their views on that, i'm not a scholar see :wink:

soup_dragon87

Absolutely, I agree 100%. Muslim and British cultures are different, simple as that. If you're going to come and live in Britain, there are certain things that you have to change to accepted into society.

And as a liberal society you can be accomodating of their beliefs.

Btw AT82, i fully sympathise with you in this problem although i can't think of a suitable alternative other than she a.) Take off the veil (which i'm against, especially if she wants to keep it on) or b.) Give up teaching.

Reply 18

Emerald

1

Juwel

There is something about a woman and a man who are neither related nor married not being allowed in the same room; perhaps the custom of the veil has replaced this rule?

no, that rule still exists as there has to be a chaperone in the room with them but again that rule isnt adhered to that much by muslims living in the West, though I should just probably speak for myself. and as a muslim girl who wears the hijab I've always been brought up to believe that the niqab is a matter of choice and muslim women don't have to wear it unless they want to. that woman is being ridicolous(sp?) as it isnt compulsory and if she wanted to go into a profession that meant she couldnt wear it then she should ahve rethought her values. With the whole controversy surrounding the niqab at the moment, she really isn't helping matters.

Reply 19

The Green Manalishi

1

Juwel

There is something about a woman and a man who are neither related nor married not being allowed in the same room; perhaps the custom of the veil has replaced this rule?

And there is definitley a rule about coverage of all but the face; whether and where this extends to all but eyes I can't say for sure.

A man and a woman who are not closely related (non-mahram*) should not be alone together in an enclosed space.

*A mahram is someone prohibited for you from marriage, so a non-mahram is anyone you can marry.

For a definition of who is a mahram read Qur'an, Surah 4 verse 23.

If I was one of her pupils I would have kicked of a fuss

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