Should we come out of the EU?

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Poll: Should we come out of the EU?
Yes (17)
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No (17)
44.74%
Not sure (4)
10.53%
username1620381
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I am genuinely curious to find out what people think, no racist or xenophobic views please. Should Britain remain in the EU or not?? :confused:
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william walker
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(Original post by 1998RF)
I am genuinely curious to find out what people think, no racist views please. Should Britain remain in the EU or not?? :confused:
Explain to me what you mean by racist views?

Britain should leave the EU. We joined the political union in the 1990's in the hope that the EU could be a block to US power. The EU can no longer be such a block on US power which Britain could use to manipulate its position and improve it means and geopolitical situation. Inside the EU we are needlessly constraining ourselves and are under serious manipulation by Germany, France and soon to be Poland as they all seek to be in the major position within the EU. We can't join them in an attempted to be the major power within the EU because we would ruin our counter balance strategy between the US and EU.

My view is we should understand where we in the world and what is happening. We are living under the Pax Americana we must limit American manipulation over Britain, while attempted to increase our own independent power within Europe. So we must leave the EU totally and all European bodies.
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username1620381
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(Original post by william walker)
Explain to me what you mean by racist views?

Britain should leave the EU. We joined the political union in the 1990's in the hope that the EU could be a block and US power. The EU can no longer be such a block on US power which Britain could use to manipulate its position and improves it means and geopolitical situation. Inside the EU we are needlessly constraining ourselves and are under serious manipulation by Germany, France and soon to be Poland as they all seek the major position within the EU. We can't join them in an attempted to be the major power within the EU because they would ruin our counter balance strategy between the US and EU.

My view is we should understand where we in the world and what is happening. We are living under the Pax Americana we must limit American manipulation over Britain, while attempted to increase our own independent power within Europe. So we must leave the EU totally and all European bodies.
I mean like people slating immigrants for coming in, due to lax EU laws, as a racist comment.
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william walker
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(Original post by 1998RF)
I mean like people slating immigrants for coming in, due to lax EU laws, as a racist comment.
So you mean xenophobic comments. Not racist comments.

Can people slate the EU laws on immigration and say they are bad so long as they don't talk about immigrants?
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username1620381
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(Original post by william walker)
So you mean xenophobic comments. Not racist comments.

Can people slate the EU laws on immigration and say they are bad so long as they don't talk about immigrants?
Fair comment. I will change that. People can talk about laws they feel that need amending, if they wish to.
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username1524603
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(Original post by 1998RF)
I mean like people slating immigrants for coming in, due to lax EU laws, as a racist comment.
My view on EU immigration is complex. I have long held the view freedom of movement does not work between countries with hugely different GDP per capita, different ratings on the development index and large differences in wages. It is inevitable the net tide of immigration is from poorer countries to richer countries. Menial jobs are paying high wages, in some cases three times minimum wage in Romania, attracting immigrant workers to the jobs giving the impression immigrants are harder working when in reality they aren't, they have a large financial incentive to do so. To give an idea of 'rich' in Romania, £60,000 builds a luxurious house lived in by the rich. When money is taken abroad you have British wages but Romanian prices only worsening the problem. As there is a supply of labour willing to accept the wages offered for menial jobs in Britain there is no incentive to increase the wages. This leads to the wage compression on the lowest paying jobs in Britain. It is not only Britain who suffers the same problem but the richer countries in the EU. Freedom of movement would work provided there is a three tiered Europe based on economics. For an immigration policy, I am a supporter of a hybrid Australian-Canadian model.

For the EU itself, I see no reason why a political union must exist to trade. I dislike the design of the EU too. It is not a global free trade bloc promoting development, but an inwards looking, protectionist state making decisions based on ideals and not the world around them e.g. the Euro. There are also predictable troubles when countries of different cultures come together with join Parliaments and law makers. Britain has far more in common with our ex-colonies who we should be looking to strengthen relations with.
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Oxford2017
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This question has already been asked several times and I think it is quite difficult to come up with a definite answer. Indeed, it is a rather complex issue. Having said that, I would say that Great Britain should remain in the EU. The country would get more benefits out of it than by walking away, that's for sure.
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Saracen's Fez
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(Original post by 1998RF)
I am genuinely curious to find out what people think, no racist or xenophobic views please. Should Britain remain in the EU or not?? :confused:
It's slightly confusing that your OP asks if we should remain but the poll asks if we should leave.


Anyway I am absolutely in favour of staying in and I think leaving will be something we would only realise the effect of after we're gone.
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perfectsymbology
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I think you should come out of the EU literally.
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Rakas21
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'Open Minded'.

I believe that Europe is on the money when it says that in a world in which the USA, China and India will dominate, we can have greater influence acting as one. For this reason regardless of the UK's membership, i support the continued formation of a European federation. I support broadly a harmonised justice policy and bar the right to family life i also support the ECHR. I also support EFTA should we come out, while i don't think we should allow free movement with any new member states until they reach a minimum GDP per capita threshold i have no problem with the bulk of current EU immigration (far more concerned with non-EU immigration).

Despite the above being said, CAP is one of the largest subsidy junkies on the planet, the CFP has carried on where Brits left off with regards to the willful destruction of our fish stocks, we are a net contributor and are generally always asked to pay more. The structure of the EU is upside down (the council should be subservient to the parliament rather than the other way around) and the Euro-zone was rushed and half baked (no mutualised debt and states which don't meet the criteria). The EU while open to trade contains a number of protectionist states and is slow to move towards free trade.

The final point to make is the direction of travel should we leave. While i support the unification of Europe i must admit that it's not Europe that i have romantic notions about, it's the Anglosphere. We gave birth to three great nations and it is my dream that we will one day unify with them again. I guess that for me it will come down to just how independent from Europe we will be and just how much of a chance do we really have to rejoin our brethren in the US, Australia, Canada and New Zealand.
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Davij038
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(Original post by Rakas21)
'Open Minded'.

I believe that Europe is on the money when it says that in a world in which the USA, China and India will dominate, we can have greater influence acting as one. For this reason regardless of the UK's membership, i support the continued formation of a European federation. I support broadly a harmonised justice policy and bar the right to family life i also support the ECHR. I also support EFTA should we come out, while i don't think we should allow free movement with any new member states until they reach a minimum GDP per capita threshold i have no problem with the bulk of current EU immigration (far more concerned with non-EU immigration).

Despite the above being said, CAP is one of the largest subsidy junkies on the planet, the CFP has carried on where Brits left off with regards to the willful destruction of our fish stocks, we are a net contributor and are generally always asked to pay more. The structure of the EU is upside down (the council should be subservient to the parliament rather than the other way around) and the Euro-zone was rushed and half baked (no mutualised debt and states which don't meet the criteria). The EU while open to trade contains a number of protectionist states and is slow to move towards free trade.

The final point to make is the direction of travel should we leave. While i support the unification of Europe i must admit that it's not Europe that i have romantic notions about, it's the Anglosphere. We gave birth to three great nations and it is my dream that we will one day unify with them again. I guess that for me it will come down to just how independent from Europe we will be and just how much of a chance do we really have to rejoin our brethren in the US, Australia, Canada and New Zealand.
100% agree with you you on this, I beleive that leaving the EU would be perhaps the UKs greatest policy blunder in its existence, and that includes losing America (I think the US did much better off without us, and we'd be screwed if they'd have stayed).

On the last point, I see no reason why, when normality has returned and we are in a more stable political and economic situation, we should not have freedom of movement with those countries mentioned (I would also heartily recommend South Korea and Japan).

Make no mistake, turning our back on Europe will cost us dearly, economically but more so global clout.

The EU has just helped cripple Russia, which has long been threatening the west. A strong unified EU , with the worlds biggest economy can stand tall in the world, with jobs, freedom and security.

As for voting Ukip, that wants to scrap the Human Rights Act and bring back the death penalty? Ah well, there'll be less polish people here, and you'll be allowed to smoke in pubs too!
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RemiMarcelle
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I'm completely torn. Of course we should still have the trading agreements between the countries, but I don't like the fact that the EU have the power to overturn some of our laws.

For example, the James Bulgar Case, the two boys were sentenced to 8 years minimum, which then raise to 10 then to 15 years. The boys appealed against this at the European Court of Human Rights, due to some act, and the sentence got reduced to 8 years because apparently the trial wasn't fair, when they ere in fact cold blooded killers who were released so so early. They did not deserve that.
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Welsh_insomniac
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I think we should push for greater EU integration. We should be adopting the Euro, use more metric measurements over Imperial units, adopt schuko plug sockets and push for standardisation throughout the countries that do not use them, as well as change the side of the road we drive on. Europe is going to succeed, I don't know why we wouldn't want to be a part of that.
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Saracen's Fez
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(Original post by Welsh_insomniac)
I think we should push for greater EU integration. We should be adopting the Euro, use more metric measurements over Imperial units, adopt schuko plug sockets and push for standardisation throughout the countries that do not use them, as well as change the side of the road we drive on. Europe is going to succeed, I don't know why we wouldn't want to be a part of that.
I agree with the exception of changing the plugs and the side of the road. Our plugs and sockets are a much better design and we should in all seriousness try to persuade the mainland to adopt them, and changing the side of the road we drive on is an incredibly difficult and expensive task in this day and age.
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Welsh_insomniac
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(Original post by O133)
I agree with the exception of changing the plugs and the side of the road. Our plugs and sockets are a much better design and we should in all seriousness try to persuade the mainland to adopt them, and changing the side of the road we drive on is an incredibly difficult and expensive task in this day and age.
Changing plug sockets will be an initial expense but it would bring a lot of benefits to the UK. Having European wide mass production of electronics would be fantastic and bring some savings (however small they may be).

British plugs have been fantastic, and they were revolutionary when they first came out. They're a great deal better than American ones, and light years better than Italian plugs but Schuko plugs now have all the same safety features as the UK/Irish 3 pin standard plug. We'd benefit by having a European standard on this issue.

Many nations of undergone changing sides of the road with minimal issues.
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Rakas21
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Changing the plugs and roads seems a needless expense.
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Saracen's Fez
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(Original post by Welsh_insomniac)
Changing plug sockets will be an initial expense but it would bring a lot of benefits to the UK. Having European wide mass production of electronics would be fantastic and bring some savings (however small they may be).

British plugs have been fantastic, and they were revolutionary when they first came out. They're a great deal better than American ones, and light years better than Italian plugs but Schuko plugs now have all the same safety features as the UK/Irish 3 pin standard plug. We'd benefit by having a European standard on this issue.

Many nations of undergone changing sides of the road with minimal issues.
The protective shielding on the live and neutral pins which is commonplace here is sporadic at best on the continent from my experience. The Schuko system obviously cannot have shutters which require the earth pin's insertion to open as the earth pin(s) is (are) on the socket and not the plug.

The last European country to switch side of the road was in the 1950s, in the days before a motorway between every largeish city. Nowadays every motorway junction would need redesigning as on-slips are not the same length as off-slips.
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ActuallyTrying
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Britain would be putting itself at a mass disadvantage by leaving the EU. I mean it was rejected several times before it could actually join!
There are issues such as from where our food comes from and the quality of things climb from abroad-when we exclude the horse meat scandals. Also Britain would be putting itself in a position which would be jeopardising it's relationship with other countries within the EU because leaving it would basically be saying that Britain can thrive and be managed sufficient without the help of anyone else!


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Maker
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(Original post by RemiMarcelle)
I'm completely torn. Of course we should still have the trading agreements between the countries, but I don't like the fact that the EU have the power to overturn some of our laws.

For example, the James Bulgar Case, the two boys were sentenced to 8 years minimum, which then raise to 10 then to 15 years. The boys appealed against this at the European Court of Human Rights, due to some act, and the sentence got reduced to 8 years because apparently the trial wasn't fair, when they ere in fact cold blooded killers who were released so so early. They did not deserve that.
You are confusing the European Court of Human rights (ECHR) which is not connected to the EU with the European Court of Justice which is connected to the EU.

Leaving the EU would not affect Britain's obligations to be bound by the ECHR.
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A Mysterious Lord
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I don't like the EU, but we are better off in.
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