EU rules the UK has to pay full benefits to all Turkish immigrants

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Ace123
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#1
Report Thread starter 7 years ago
#1
Despite Turkey not even being in the EU, the EU court has ruled that the Uk has to pay them & their families full UK benefits. How much more will the UK take from the ridiculius EU before we leave?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...mmigrants.html
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Europe Crusader
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#2
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#2
This is disgusting. Turks are not even European, let alone the fact they are not in the EU (and hopefully never will be).
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MatureStudent36
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#3
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#3
It's almost like the EU is going out of its way to annoy the net contributors.

It's not surprising though, there's a huge Turkish community in Germany and as Germany is the main power behind the EU its easy to see what benefits Germany becomes defacto EU law.
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SHallowvale
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#4
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#4
(Original post by Ace123)
Despite Turkey not even being in the EU, the EU court has ruled that the Uk has to pay them & their families full UK benefits. How much more will the UK take from the ridiculius EU before we leave?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...mmigrants.html
Are there any other articles about this?

I've tried to find the original source of this story but I can't seem to find it.
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slade p
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#5
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#5
Shows how ridiculous the eu is, Britain must get out now.
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nulli tertius
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#6
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#6
The Daily Mail reporting of this is misleading.

The EU signed a deal with Turkey long before Britain joined giving special rights to Turks. It was part of the negotiations when Britain and Ireland entered that we would have an opt out from that deal. The members states (not the Commission) agreed a new deal giving further rights with Turkey in 2012. Britain and Ireland wanted that new deal to be subject to their opt out from 1973.

Stripped of the legal verbiage, were the other member states pulling a flanker on the Brits and the Irish or were the Brits and Irish wrong to be insisting on 40 year old opts to circumvent deals that the rest of the member states made a couple of years ago?

If you look at this from the position of the rest of the EU, they are getting rather tired of every social change they want to make having to be viewed through the prism of a British social welfare system that they regard as too easy (both for Brits and foreigners) to access. The Germans weren't concerned about these changes despite the fact they have hundreds of thousands more Turks than we do.
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nulli tertius
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#7
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#7
(Original post by SHallowvale)
Are there any other articles about this?

I've tried to find the original source of this story but I can't seem to find it.
http://curia.europa.eu/juris/documen...rt=1&cid=16833
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Europe Crusader
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#8
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#8
One step closer to Non-European, Muslim Turkey joining the EU :mad:
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nulli tertius
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#9
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#9
(Original post by Europe Crusader)
One step closer to Non-European, Muslim Turkey joining the EU :mad:
On the contrary. This is one more sop to avoid giving them the EU membership they have been chasing for 30 years and for which on every basis (apart from the bleeding obvious that they are an enormous non-European Muslim state with insecure borders, dodgy neighbours and a tendency to lapse into dictatorship) they qualify admirably.
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Ace123
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#10
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#10
The full judgement is here- it also says Turkish immigrants have to be given access to the NHS as well! and applies to almost all types of benefits we have

'These provisions must enable workers of Turkish nationality, in accordance with arrangements to be laid down, to aggregate periods of insurance or employment completed in individual Member States in respect of old-age pensions, death benefits and invalidity pensions, and also as regards the provision of health services for workers and their families'

'The material scope of the decision, as defined in Article 4, extends to legislation concerning the branches of social security relating to sickness and maternity benefits, invalidity benefits, old-age benefits, death grants, benefits in respect of accidents at work and occupational diseases, unemployment benefits and family benefits'

http://curia.europa.eu/juris/documen...rt=1&cid=16833
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InnerTemple
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#11
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#11
Another day, another misleading Ace123 thread.
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nulli tertius
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#12
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#12
(Original post by Ace123)
The full judgement is here- it also says Turkish immigrants have to be given access to the NHS as well! and applies to almost all types of benefits we have

'These provisions must enable workers of Turkish nationality, in accordance with arrangements to be laid down, to aggregate periods of insurance or employment completed in individual Member States in respect of old-age pensions, death benefits and invalidity pensions, and also as regards the provision of health services for workers and their families'

'The material scope of the decision, as defined in Article 4, extends to legislation concerning the branches of social security relating to sickness and maternity benefits, invalidity benefits, old-age benefits, death grants, benefits in respect of accidents at work and occupational diseases, unemployment benefits and family benefits'

http://curia.europa.eu/juris/documen...rt=1&cid=16833
Thank you for posting the document that I posted 2 hours ago.

Do you have any idea of what the position of Turks was before this decision?

Did you realise that anyone lawfully employed in the UK and their dependants, regardless of nationality is entitled to free NHS treatment? That is what they pay their taxes for.

Did you know that anyone lawfully employed in the UK and paying national insurance contributions, regardless of nationality is entitled to all social security benefits that are dependent on contributions? Again that is what they pay their taxes for.

Just set out in your next post precisely the differences this decision makes to the position of Turks.
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Ace123
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#13
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#13
(Original post by nulli tertius)
Thank you for posting the document that I posted 2 hours ago.

Do you have any idea of what the position of Turks was before this decision?

Did you realise that anyone lawfully employed in the UK and their dependants, regardless of nationality is entitled to free NHS treatment? That is what they pay their taxes for.

Did you know that anyone lawfully employed in the UK and paying national insurance contributions, regardless of nationality is entitled to all social security benefits that are dependent on contributions? Again that is what they pay their taxes for.

Just set out in your next post precisely the differences this decision makes to the position of Turks.
you are wrong there are qualifying periods for the NHS for non EU citizens even if they live in the UK & they only qualify after a certain time, EU immigrants don't and Turkey is not in the EU so this changes that. The benefits I mentioned are also not all dependent on contribution and as we have seen with EU immigrants they claim them with contributing very little and Turkish immigrants have just been given access to them. For example sickness, disability, unemployment are not limited to only those who have paid in.

The EU yet again bleeding the UK dry
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nulli tertius
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#14
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#14
(Original post by Ace123)
you are wrong there are qualifying periods for the NHS for non EU citizens even if they live in the UK & they only qualify after a certain time,
You are not correct. I referred to people lawfully working working in the UK. They have a "route to settlement" and are entitled to free NHS treatment from arrival (I accept there are a few employees whose visas are incapable of extension so as to achieve settlement).

http://www.nhs.uk/chq/Pages/1087.asp...CategoryID=162



EU immigrants don't and Turkey is not in the EU so this changes that.
Virtually all Turkish immigrants currently qualify for free NHS care

The benefits I mentioned are also not all dependent on contribution and as we have seen with EU immigrants they claim them with contributing very little and Turkish immigrants have just been given access to them. For example sickness, disability, unemployment are not limited to only those who have paid in.
The entitlement of most Turks to non-contributory benefits will not change as a result of this decision.

I am afraid you do not have a clue what the real effect of what this change will be. If a Turk comes to Britain whether from Turkey or Germany at age 40, he will get a British retirement pension when he retires based in part on his German or Turkish National Insurance Contributions but wholly at the expense of the UK governement. A Turk who moves back to Turkey or to Germany before retirement will get a Turkish or German retirement pension at the expense of those governments but based on his UK Contributions. Likewise a Turk coming to the UK can count his Turkish NI contributions towards satisfying UK contribution requirements.

The government doesn't really care about the trivial sums involved in this decision. Their concern is political; that what they believed were legal opt outs have proved to be written in water.
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Ace123
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#15
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#15
(Original post by nulli tertius)
You are not correct. I referred to people lawfully working working in the UK. They have a "route to settlement" and are entitled to free NHS treatment from arrival (I accept there are a few employees whose visas are incapable of extension so as to achieve settlement).

http://www.nhs.uk/chq/Pages/1087.asp...CategoryID=162





Virtually all Turkish immigrants currently qualify for free NHS care



The entitlement of most Turks to non-contributory benefits will not change as a result of this decision.

I am afraid you do not have a clue what the real effect of what this change will be. If a Turk comes to Britain whether from Turkey or Germany at age 40, he will get a British retirement pension when he retires based in part on his German or Turkish National Insurance Contributions but wholly at the expense of the UK governement. A Turk who moves back to Turkey or to Germany before retirement will get a Turkish or German retirement pension at the expense of those governments but based on his UK Contributions. Likewise a Turk coming to the UK can count his Turkish NI contributions towards satisfying UK contribution requirements.

The government doesn't really care about the trivial sums involved in this decision. Their concern is political; that what they believed were legal opt outs have proved to be written in water.
That is wrong you need to read the Immigration Act 2014- the NHS will now charge non EU immigrants for the NHS, the act has redefined who can use the NHS for free
and you have to be in the uk for 5 years to use the NHS but the act cannot apply to EU immigrants or now Turkey after the EU ruling

http://www.migrantsrights.org.uk/blo...ccess-nhs-care

And I agree with you a key point if the legal opt out which was yet again ignored by the EU
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nulli tertius
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#16
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#16
(Original post by Ace123)
That is wrong you need to read the Immigration Act 2014- the NHS will now charge non EU immigrants for the NHS, the act has redefined who can use the NHS for free
and you have to be in the uk for 5 years to use the NHS but the act cannot apply to EU immigrants or now Turkey after the EU ruling

http://www.migrantsrights.org.uk/blo...ccess-nhs-care
These provisions are not in force.

Personally I doubt they will ever be. The Immigration Health Charge will be a particularly cheap form of health insurance. At present uncertainties about access to NHS services reduces take up of health care by immigrants. Hand them a bloody certificate for a fee and they will be queuing round the block at the doctors'. At some point the penny will drop that this will be a financial disaster for the government.
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DresdenSurvivor
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#17
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#17
Turkey's not really a European country, it wont join the EU trust me on that. Some are even talking about Turkey leaving NATO. Over the years Turkey's leader Erdogan has spoken out against America and Israel and Western foreign policy. He's also made closer ties with countries like Russia. I know Turkey will betray America, Israel and the West at some point.This is why recently Erdogan has been cracking down on opponents, because he fears the US will be supporting a coup.US/Israel no longer has any trust in Erdogan they want to replace him.
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geneticist
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#18
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#18
(Original post by Europe Crusader)
One step closer to Non-European, Muslim Turkey joining the EU :mad:
Don't be ridiculous that's not going to happen.

What are the "special EU rights"?:confused:
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Rakas21
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#19
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#19
Actually i broad agree with you OP, i hope the UK government will be appealing.
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MagicNMedicine
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#20
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#20
Ace123 taking on nulli tertius

LOL
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