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    (Original post by C0balt)
    The thing is English first language GCSE/IGCSE now is considered as a proof for English proficiency for 2nd language speakers. English literature doesn't prove one's English skill, as a first language person with fine English grammar can get bad grade in it. By combining it destroys the purpose of proving one's English proficiency. (Not gonna have a debate about whether or not GCSE English language is a good indicator of one's English proficiency, because I don't know lol)
    Surely by combining it you can evaluate more of ones proficiency by including coursework on relevant books etc ? Of course I know there would be more work on this idea but I just don't see the relevance of English Literature to make it compulsory.. Unlike other argumentative subjects like History


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    (Original post by MrJAKEE)
    Surely by combining it you can evaluate more of ones proficiency by including coursework on relevant books etc ? Of course I know there would be more work on this idea but I just don't see the relevance of English Literature to make it compulsory.. Unlike other argumentative subjects like History


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    You don't need to be able to "explain" the meaning behind why the man's coat was blue in order to be admitted into university, do you? I don't like literature being compulsory either but I don't want language and literature to be combined.
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    (Original post by C0balt)
    You don't need to be able to "explain" the meaning behind why the man's coat was blue in order to be admitted into university, do you? I don't like literature being compulsory either but I don't want language and literature to be combined.
    I agree with you mostly but I think there is a bit of creativity that can be harnessed through what is the meaning the man's coat was blue , and I feel literature shows how someone can express them-self in words and that is quite important..


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    (Original post by MrJAKEE)
    I agree with you mostly but I think there is a bit of creativity that can be harnessed through what is the meaning the man's coat was blue , and I feel literature shows how someone can express them-self in words and that is quite important..


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    If I wanted to test whether or not one can express their thought in words I'd make them write an argumentative essay on whether or not bullfighting should be allowed or something as it's in my opinion more useful to be able to argue in life than expressing why the man's coat was blue. I had to write an argumentative essay, descriptive essay and a story for my English language and tbh it was enough to prove that my English was sufficient for a science degree, and if one wanted to take humanity essay subject at degree they'd have taken at A levels or equivalent anyway that their English would be more than sufficient by the time they get to university.

    I personally believe history should be compulsory at Gcse though, it's probably the best argumentative subject out there at the moment and having basic understanding of modern history is vital in not being ashamed in this increasingly globalising world.

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    (Original post by C0balt)
    If I wanted to test whether or not one can express their thought in words I'd make them write an argumentative essay on whether or not bullfighting should be allowed or something as it's in my opinion more useful to be able to argue in life than expressing why the man's coat was blue. I had to write an argumentative essay, descriptive essay and a story for my English language and tbh it was enough to prove that my English was sufficient for a science degree, and if one wanted to take humanity essay subject at degree they'd have taken at A levels or equivalent anyway that their English would be more than sufficient by the time they get to university.

    I personally believe history should be compulsory at Gcse though, it's probably the best argumentative subject out there at the moment and having basic understanding of modern history is vital in not being ashamed in this increasingly globalising world.

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    I think 7 GCSES should be compulsory under my tenure as education secretary :
    Maths,English,citizenship and the sciences and a language.

    Citizenship should have issues that affect the day to day lives in this country and I think many people just look over. For instance, there'd be modules on Politics, modules on British History (I know lots of people who don't know how the Uk was formed!), modules on PSHE & modules on home matters. Possibly could include controlled assessments and it would be taught (or should be) in a non bias manner. I reckon it would increase political engagement in the Uk (along with compulsory voting). This would involve essay writing and people would have to evaluate on why people think a certain way/why they think a certain way.

    I enjoyed my English Lit tbh. It will be useless but I think the discussion & imagination elements are essential for the good of our economy (these effects are probably negligible but ho hum).


    Don't even get me started on History haha. It's probably one of the hardest subjects out there and I find it shocking how students are ill prepared even for gcse level. I think languages are quite essential though for globalisation. I think there is a tendency for English people to expect people to speak English in foreign countries, where that isn't so the case where other Europeans come here (this is speculative of course). I feel that languages should be more widely taught, Chinese especially, so that we can become a large hub (or mostly London) on the globalised market. Languages I feel would be better utilised in the future than a large study of History.









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    (Original post by MrJAKEE)
    Don't even get me started on History haha. It's probably one of the hardest subjects out there and I find it shocking how students are ill prepared even for gcse level. I think languages are quite essential though for globalisation. I think there is a tendency for English people to expect people to speak English in foreign countries, where that isn't so the case where other Europeans come here (this is speculative of course). I feel that languages should be more widely taught, Chinese especially, so that we can become a large hub (or mostly London) on the globalised market. Languages I feel would be better utilised in the future than a large study of History.


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    I didnt know what citizenship gcse involved lol

    I thought languages are compulsory in majority of school so I didn't bother including :P
    It is true though, so many people speak English these days especially those more able people who come to foreign countries for business. Not saying foreign languages are nor important though, because they are and I know because I am a foreigner myself actually, from non EU country living in a EU countrycountry. What i felt I was lacking firstly was obviously the language. Now I speak English that I can't really be motivated for French though lol. Secondly it was world history; I left my home country before touching any of the world history so by the time I started GCSE I knew nothing and it was embarrassing. Then thirdly my own country's history and politics. I knew briefly but I've had times I had to explain those in a bit of detail as I was in an international school and people were interested. And it was embarrassing again lol. These are my fault that I'd never reached out to learn for myself but I'd be lying if I didn't say I'd never thought it before I went overseas.

    So I'd make maths, language, English language, sciences, history and citizenship thing I've never done compulsory. I am still not convinced about literature being compulsory tbh but schools are free to make it compulsory I guess. I did get an A but I don't think it helped me in any way.. Maybe improving my English which is a second language..but history did a better job :P

    My school kind of made geography compulsory and i actually think it's sort of logical considering global warming, population etc are world problem these days but how a river forms etc don't seem to be necessary so I don't necessarily agree with geography being compulsory.

    Maybe there should be a subject which covers world problem, brief world history, brief UK history, politics etc and make it compulsory lol A bit huge subject but maybe omit tiny details and make history or geography sort of extension subjects and if students want to take them they'll be built onto the knowledge gained in the compulsory subject



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    (Original post by C0balt)
    I didnt know what citizenship gcse involved lol

    I thought languages are compulsory in majority of school so I didn't bother including :P
    It is true though, so many people speak English these days especially those more able people who come to foreign countries for business. Not saying foreign languages are nor important though, because they are and I know because I am a foreigner myself actually, from non EU country living in a EU countrycountry. What i felt I was lacking firstly was obviously the language. Now I speak English that I can't really be motivated for French though lol. Secondly it was world history; I left my home country before touching any of the world history so by the time I started GCSE I knew nothing and it was embarrassing. Then thirdly my own country's history and politics. I knew briefly but I've had times I had to explain those in a bit of detail as I was in an international school and people were interested. And it was embarrassing again lol. These are my fault that I'd never reached out to learn for myself but I'd be lying if I didn't say I'd never thought it before I went overseas.

    So I'd make maths, language, English language, sciences, history and citizenship thing I've never done compulsory. I am still not convinced about literature being compulsory tbh but schools are free to make it compulsory I guess. I did get an A but I don't think it helped me in any way.. Maybe improving my English which is a second language..but history did a better job :P

    My school kind of made geography compulsory and i actually think it's sort of logical considering global warming, population etc are world problem these days but how a river forms etc don't seem to be necessary so I don't necessarily agree with geography being compulsory.

    Maybe there should be a subject which covers world problem, brief world history, brief UK history, politics etc and make it compulsory lol A bit huge subject but maybe omit tiny details and make history or geography sort of extension subjects and if students want to take them they'll be built onto the knowledge gained in the compulsory subject


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    I never took citizenship gcse but looked at some past papers and seems like a Mickey gcse lol

    I don't think a language is compulsory at gcse, I think most schools force it on pupils though as you can form some sort of extra qualification what you do a humanity and a language? For History gcse all I did was 4 different topics in modern history and I feel we could have done coursework as well, we ended up having a term of doing no work at all (which I am obviously more thankful of!).
    I'm thinking perhaps making an English plus gcse which includes more lit (more AS material) but a little more language based stuff too.

    I don't think Geography should be compulsory because a lot of it would be covered in the citizenship material (why should anyone be forced to learn about cliff faces?) and a lot of the human geography (modern issues facing our world currently) should be tackled in citizenship, stuff like how do we solve the energy crisis? Problems with rapid population growth? That sort of stuff. Of course schools could still offer Geography. I like your thoughts on making History + Geography build on knowledge stuff.

    Personally I think we need (as a country) to start thinking about online-education. While some people at gcse age don't have the will to work there are many who will and if national online resources (stuff like teachers talking on a issue for an hour or so) was created during our education we could get more done. Literally everyone nowadays has some sort of tablet/computer and anyone who didn't have one could go to a local library etc. Subjects like Maths are easily taught to those with the ability, and I am one of those that get more done on my own time than at school time. This with more funding on libraries + schools could mean a reduction on class numbers (possibly allowing education to get through to more disadvantaged people), reduce the strain on school numbers and could make Britain a lot more educated.. I don't understand why it hasn't been implemented yet. Also I don't see the need for numerous exam boards too...



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    (Original post by MrJAKEE)
    Lol I got an A in my language and it seemed to be that it was always so random as to what I got in the mocks.. Sometimes an A* .. Sometimes a B .. Sometimes a D.. You had to answer the questions in such an ordered manner and tbh I don't see the relevance to real life. Obviously this can be said so in Maths too, which I'd like to see reformed to more everyday/useful maths. I did like English Lit but I do question how much we need to be teaching our children about contextual/thematic factors.


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    I agree with you about the reformation of maths into relevancy. I guess language would be relevant if you wanted to go into advertising, or really, any kind of career which entails you to write. And I can also see where you're coming from with Literature, however, being relatively well read is really useful in life, and I guess history factors in here. It just teaches you to understand humankind a little more, which I think is incredibly important. I guess it's just about personal values
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    (Original post by langlitz)
    Oh great.. Which is useful how?

    If that's the limit of your maths education I seriously feel bad for you. You cut yourself of from pretty much every subject apart from humanities without maths. The world would simple grind to a halt without maths. No computers, no economy


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    It's people like you can't grasp why the study of our own species is important that worry me.

    I love the humanities, so I'm bias over here. I'm not saying don't study maths. If you're good at maths, and you can add to the world by studying maths, by all means do! However, I object the idea of compulsory study because if you're not naturally good at maths (like myself), you never really grasp a flair for the subject and I have struggled with it since starting mathematics in reception. I will never not struggle with it. So why force me to study it, when I can instead study English, which (excuse any arrogance) I have excelled at all my life? I can contribute to society by being an author or a lawyer or a teacher, as opposed to being a crappy accountant?

    That's my point. Of course maths is important. But in English Literature, matter how straight-forward a story may seem, the search for something deeper within it leads to all kinds of insights that teach you more about the world and the different ways people use language. This, in combination with analysis, gives you the power of perspective that is so essential to ease in communication with people who are different from you, in a way that is unique to literature. To write you have to read, and to really read, you have to think, criticize, doubt, wonder, and stand amazed by words on the page.
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    (Original post by katinthehat)
    It's people like you can't grasp why the study of our own species is important that worry me.

    I love the humanities, so I'm bias over here. I'm not saying don't study maths. If you're good at maths, and you can add to the world by studying maths, by all means do! However, I object the idea of compulsory study because if you're not naturally good at maths (like myself), you never really grasp a flair for the subject and I have struggled with it since starting mathematics in reception. I will never not struggle with it. So why force me to study it, when I can instead study English, which (excuse any arrogance) I have excelled at all my life? I can contribute to society by being an author or a lawyer or a teacher, as opposed to being a crappy accountant?

    That's my point. Of course maths is important. But in English Literature, matter how straight-forward a story may seem, the search for something deeper within it leads to all kinds of insights that teach you more about the world and the different ways people use language. This, in combination with analysis, gives you the power of perspective that is so essential to ease in communication with people who are different from you, in a way that is unique to literature. To write you have to read, and to really read, you have to think, criticize, doubt, wonder, and stand amazed by words on the page.
    Ok, I see your point, of course that's important (and I actually enjoy reading just as a side note).

    However I can't accept when people use the argument that nothing you learn in maths is useful in everyday life, usually followed by an example like simultaneous equations or solving for x... But then turn round and say that being able to analyse the foreshadowing in a short story or some such thing is useful


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    I don't believe A level maths is necessary as not much of it is applied or at least not as much as GCSE maths. People won't find any use in it.
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    (Original post by langlitz)
    Ok, I see your point, of course that's important (and I actually enjoy reading just as a side note).

    However I can't accept when people use the argument that nothing you learn in maths is useful in everyday life, usually followed by an example like simultaneous equations or solving for x... But then turn round and say that being able to analyse the foreshadowing in a short story or some such thing is useful


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    Yeah, absolutely! Maths is essential and relevant for everyday life, I think everyone should do the GCSE, if for nothing else for general knowledge! I think maths and English are both as important as each other in very different ways
 
 
 
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