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If the woman wants to abort the child Watch

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    (Original post by Sulpha)
    It's not disgusting at all.

    A man and a woman have sex, not wanting a child, the condom breaks and the woman gets pregnant.

    The woman didn't take the morning after pill. The woman doesn't get an abortion. The woman wasn't using the pill.

    That's the woman's fault. Not the mans. The woman can keep the baby but the man shouldn't support it - he doesn't want it.
    Then don't have sexy,it's so simple! Contraception is never 100% effective anyway
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    (Original post by Mystery Me)
    "Thank God, i had an abortion," is what i heard from a woman, once I was in a hospital. She was talking to someone on her phone. Sure its disrespectful to eavesdrop and you'd definitely never believe what I'm saying, but I would like to assume that some women will have no guilt after aborting the child. Dumping her is the best solution so far. At least, you've got one less of an individual, who is utterly inconsiderate of your feelings.

    Women's excuse is, "Its my body, my decision." This is really the most common excuse. And I agree, that its your body and your decision weighs more than the mans decision. But the baby inside you, is not yours entirely. Its only half yours. Unless you have some serious physical complications that force you to abort the child, I have no sympathy for women who abort their child and sigh with relief afterwards when the man is clearly willing to take responsibility.

    I think the law must intervene in this matter and show some (or at least a little) support for the man who is willing to support for and take care of the child.
    Some women would feel no guilt after an abortion, others feel guilty for the rest of their lives. Most don't take the decision lightly. Again I can agree with breaking up with her over it, but the only other option is forcing a woman to bear a child against her will and that is just barbaric.
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    (Original post by Sulpha)
    But it's okay if a woman forces a man to bare one ?
    I do actually agree with the idea you have been posting in the thread, but enforced pregnancy is still worse than child support.
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    (Original post by Sulpha)
    But it's okay if a woman forces a man to bare one ?
    Why do you keep assuming everyone thinks that? :confused:
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    (Original post by Sulpha)
    I don't support forced pregnancy.
    I didn't say you did, but it certainly came across as though you think the two are equivalent.
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    (Original post by Sulpha)
    That's the first time I've said it ?
    Well I didn't say anything to give the impression that I thought it and you jumped to the conclusion that I did, so sounds like she is right.
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    (Original post by Sulpha)
    That's the first time I've said it ?
    I got you mixed up with another poster who seemed to be doing the same thing, my bad sorry.
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    (Original post by M1011)
    "There have been so many advances in contraception, morning after pills and abortions in recent years (all of these affect women only), that it can be argued nowadays that preventing childbirth is inherently a woman's responsibility and not a man's."

    This is entirely wrong (in my opinion).

    It isn't the man's responsibility. It isn't the woman's responsibility. It is a joint responsibility. By either party not using contraception, that member is consenting to a potential pregnancy. It is not the man's right to not wear contraception and expect the woman to take that responsibility, any more than it's a woman's right to expect the same the other way around.

    In short, if YOU don't want a child then YOU have the responsibility to use contraception. End of.
    It's not that simple though. No form of contraception is 100% effective and that is why it is so unfair that men can be forced into paying. The fact that a man could have made an active choice not to have a baby by putting on a condom but then be forced into it because the condom broke and the woman decided she wanted it is just wrong.

    I completely agree with the contract idea and think it could solve a number of problems. As well as giving men a choice over whether or not they have a child it could also be used by those who rely on using a surrogate or lesbian couples using a sperm donor who both want to be legal parents from the start.
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    (Original post by Sulpha)
    Stop crying mate
    Don't take this the wrong way but, why do you talk to people in such a rude fashion? Surely if you wanted people to listen to you and your ideas it would be a better idea to be respectful?
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    (Original post by Sulpha)
    It's not rude. The guy brought up the same trail of logic in two individual posts.

    If my posts offend you then ignore me. I don't have the time to cater to everyone's overly sensitive needs.

    Really "stop crying mate" doesn't seem rude or childish to you? When he responded in a good manner.

    I never said I was offended. I simply asked you a question because I genuinely do not understand why you talk to people the way you do sometimes. It's counter productive and people won't take you seriously or listen to you.
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    (Original post by Sulpha)
    Stop crying mate
    You do realise you are acting like a **** right? Your first reply to me was confrontational even though I said nothing disagreeing with you, and then you only got more aggressive after I said I actually agree with your posts. I am not sure what you are trying to prove, but back down and stop trying to make an argument where there shouldn't be one.
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    (Original post by Sulpha)
    No I don't think that's rude or childish.

    There was no need for him to comment on my post to you because he'd already made his point and I had taken it on board.
    Then what did you think it was if not rude and childish to tell someone to stop crying when they never even suggested to be upset?

    I think you need to evaluate how you come across when you talk, social skills are important.

    Of course this is just my opinion and advice in passing, feel free to ignore it as is your right.
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    (Original post by Sulpha)
    My first post wasn't confrontational at all.

    I was just saying that I don't support forced pregnancy. I'd misread, you cleared it up and I took it on board.

    Before I had the chance to even reply you were quoting me again as if you were deeply offended.
    No that was the second post, your first post was accusing me of a double standard that I never implied I held. I wasn't acting deeply offended, I was just irritated you were being so confrontational.

    Look I think it is pretty obvious we are both actually on the same side, and I was admittedly being quite confrontational myself, so lets just drop it
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    (Original post by Sulpha)
    Are your parents the kind of people who ground you if you swear at home ?

    I appreciate the effort, but I don't need lessons in social skills from a 19 year old.
    Haha no I swear like sailor.

    And once again coming across as disrespectful and rude. And before you suggest it no I'm no offended.
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    (Original post by Sulpha)
    I think you're a tad sensitive.
    Not really, I'm quite a cold unfeeling person overall. All I did was make observations on your behaviour and you took this to mean I am offended or sensitive which is not the case.
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    (Original post by Sulpha)
    It's just the first time anyone has commented on it so I was curious.
    I suppose most people wouldn't bother commenting on it.
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    (Original post by Sulpha)
    Hence the suspicions of you possibly being slightly sensitive.
    And my confirmation that that was not the case.
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    (Original post by Sulpha)
    Ultimately even if a man does wear a condom, there are numerous further steps than can be taken to prevent childbirth upon conception, which are all the woman's responsibility.

    Women are the overall deciders of whether or not to bring children into the world. Not men.

    Attitudes need to change so that we recognise this great imbalance in power and compensate for it by giving men the financial choice.
    It doesn't matter how many decision points the other party has - men have one undeniable decision point. If they choose not to use it, that's their fault. It's not that difficult to strap up! I'm not saying all responsibility is on the man, I'm saying if two parties don't want children, then both parties should be taking the appropriate steps.

    (Original post by StacFace)
    It's not that simple though. No form of contraception is 100% effective and that is why it is so unfair that men can be forced into paying. The fact that a man could have made an active choice not to have a baby by putting on a condom but then be forced into it because the condom broke and the woman decided she wanted it is just wrong.

    I completely agree with the contract idea and think it could solve a number of problems. As well as giving men a choice over whether or not they have a child it could also be used by those who rely on using a surrogate or lesbian couples using a sperm donor who both want to be legal parents from the start.
    I don't see any mention of a clause stating only men that wear a condom which subsequently breaks need to sign the paperwork? In reality that's impossible to monitor, so the idea doesn't work. Else you're saying it's fine for a man to never bother with a condom, impregnate left right and center and take no responsibility. AKA - you go from mutual responsibility with a slight bias towards the man to completely biased responsibility on the woman. It's a painfully bad proposition if you think about it.
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    (Original post by Sulpha)
    Hence the suspicions of you possibly being slightly sensitive.
    I feel like that would be pedantry more than sensitivity tbh.
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    (Original post by M1011)
    I don't see any mention of a clause stating only men that wear a condom which subsequently breaks need to sign the paperwork? In reality that's impossible to monitor, so the idea doesn't work. Else you're saying it's fine for a man to never bother with a condom, impregnate left right and center and take no responsibility. AKA - you go from mutual responsibility with a slight bias towards the man to completely biased responsibility on the woman. It's a painfully bad proposition if you think about it.
    I haven't mentioned such a clause precisely because it wouldn't work but even without it I don't see how this wouldn't be a huge improvement. The woman is the one in control being the only one who can actually do anything about an unwanted pregnancy once it happens, so it makes sense that she has more of the responsibilty.

    In response to your scenario about men going round impregnating left, right and centre I would have no sympathy for the women they slept with. If they still had sex when he didn't use a condom, didn't use their own contraception, didn't go get a morning after pill the next day and didn't get an abortion then I'm sorry but that's them choosing to have a child. Just not using contraception, however, is not.
 
 
 
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