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As a Yes voters, I believe Scotland should have it's own forum for Scottish Politics Watch

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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    There is a grouping of Yes Campaigners still suffering from their, understandable when you put your heart into something and it fails, unfortunately they are still sounding off in their little echo chamber with little recourse to outside realities. Even more unfortunate is that they are obnoxiously shrill making it harder for the level headed and more pragmatic to be heard over their cacophony of wibble.
    I wish pragmatism was centre stage in Politics, but anyway, what do you think the 2015 election results will be like? And who are you rooting for?


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    (Original post by MrJAKEE)
    I wish pragmatism was centre stage in Politics, but anyway, what do you think the 2015 election results will be like? And who are you rooting for?


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    I like the vast majority (and less vocal) of the electorate realise that most political parties are in the centre and that's exactly where we like them.

    As a floating voter I have no tribal loyalties so I'm tending towards the conservatives. The SNP are smoke and mirrors, labour lacks gravitas, the lib dems are generally a protest vote who found themselves in power by accident and then realised that a lot of their policies were unworkable. UKIP is the southern cousin of the SNP pushing for the nationalist vote.

    Conservatives have got the economy moving. They're reigning in the deficit slowly but surely and they are offering a referendum on the EU.
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    (Original post by MrJAKEE)
    Self-determination? They have self-determination in the UK currently!
    But that assumes all the people of "the UK" feel cohesive as "the UK".

    (Original post by MrJAKEE)
    It's disrespectful how the English are constantly having to change the rules and subsidise Scotland
    More money is sent from Scotland(incl. Holyrood and tax from the population) to Westminster than is sent the other way, we are net contributors to the UK, not subsidised.

    (Original post by MrJAKEE)
    to keep the union with Scotland
    If you subsidise the subsidise us and we're so disrespectful, why try to "keep the union". Let us go and you will be able to recoup all those subsidies and free yourself of our horrible disrespect :/

    (Original post by MrJAKEE)
    how the blame is put on London and many of the southern England
    Westminster policy always benefits London and the SE more than any other part of the UK, it's ridiculous.

    (Original post by MrJAKEE)
    for Scotland's inability during the 1970s to diversify its economy so reality could come during Thatcher.
    We had diversified but mostly within heavy-industries, which that cow scrapped out nothing but dogma and hatred.

    (Original post by MrJAKEE)
    That's just some of the things that come to mind when I think of disrespectful Scottish nationalists.
    Just because something comes to mind doesn't make it true or accurate.
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    (Original post by CalDem)
    But that assumes all the people of "the UK" feel cohesive as "the UK".


    More money is sent from Scotland(incl. Holyrood and tax from the population) to Westminster than is sent the other way, we are net contributors to the UK, not subsidised.


    If you subsidise the subsidise us and we're so disrespectful, why try to "keep the union". Let us go and you will be able to recoup all those subsidies and free yourself of our horrible disrespect :/


    Westminster policy always benefits London and the SE more than any other part of the UK, it's ridiculous.

    We had diversified but mostly within heavy-industries, which that cow scrapped out nothing but dogma and hatred.


    Just because something comes to mind doesn't make it true or accurate.
    Two points to note.

    The Scotland contributes more than it gets back happened only in 2008. One year. Just that year.

    Second point, if all Westminster policy is based t London and the SE why do they receive some of the lowest spending per capita. Why are you also criticising the only two areas of the UK that actually generate a surplus of cash.
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    (Original post by CalDem)
    But that assumes all the people of "the UK" feel cohesive as "the UK".


    More money is sent from Scotland(incl. Holyrood and tax from the population) to Westminster than is sent the other way, we are net contributors to the UK, not subsidised.


    If you subsidise the subsidise us and we're so disrespectful, why try to "keep the union". Let us go and you will be able to recoup all those subsidies and free yourself of our horrible disrespect :/


    Westminster policy always benefits London and the SE more than any other part of the UK, it's ridiculous.

    We had diversified but mostly within heavy-industries, which that cow scrapped out nothing but dogma and hatred.


    Just because something comes to mind doesn't make it true or accurate.
    Believe me I feel the UK needs adaptations! We need a better electoral system for a start to increase political engagement. Scottish nationalism to me seems like a paddy vote - well Westminster doesn't represent us so it is better for us to have our own parliament, despite regions of Scotland themselves not voting SNP.. So what next? Those regions go independent? The scots have representation in Westminster and ATM there is no question whether or not they are having a disproportionate influence, they are.

    And I'll think you'll find that we do subsidise you (excluding oil which is disputed). http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-1647799

    I'm not trying to keep the union. I could care less whether or not Scotland stay in or out currently. London and the SE are benefiting more from economic policy because those industries were most of the time away from manufacturing, and so didn't have to cede to globalisation. And I'll think you'll find it was never cut out of hatred, more realism, Scotland and many parts of Northern England were being subsidised by government (in a lot of manufacturing industries) to avoid calamities with unemployment and due to big influence with unions. While I agree with unions, when it comes to inefficiencies in the market it is a very bad thing - a lot of the north were living in a bubble that was unsustainable. When it comes to running a country it should be like running a business, stop the losses and be sustainable in spending.

    And on your last point, same could be said about the nationalists! So that was an irrelevant point.


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    Scotland provides 9.4% of total UK revenue despite only having 8.4% of the UK's population? On the other hand, that 8.4% receive 9.2% of UK spending - and that is while our economy plays second-fiddle to the South East, it's clear we would be doing even better if the UK government wasn't completely ignoring us.

    Internationally, British Government business marketing ignores Scotland completely and it's tourism marketing only touches a little on Loch Ness and the surrounding area - a bumf**k nowhere that is by no means our greatest offerings.

    A prime example of this is the Dept. for Business, Innovation and Skills which held a British Business Expo in Glasgow during the Commonwealth Games and did not show a single Scottish product. This was to tourists who had already shown interest in Scotland by coming here - perfect candidates for Scottish products.
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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    I like the vast majority (and less vocal) of the electorate realise that most political parties are in the centre and that's exactly where we like them.

    As a floating voter I have no tribal loyalties so I'm tending towards the conservatives. The SNP are smoke and mirrors, labour lacks gravitas, the lib dems are generally a protest vote who found themselves in power by accident and then realised that a lot of their policies were unworkable. UKIP is the southern cousin of the SNP pushing for the nationalist vote.

    Conservatives have got the economy moving. They're reigning in the deficit slowly but surely and they are offering a referendum on the EU.
    Centrist politics certainly is where most English parties are going. I wish we had a system similar to Sweden's whereby people voted for who they actually resonated with, not which party to keep out in their area. I'm similar to you in regards to being a swing voter, I look politics from practically all political parties in the UK (except the Lib Dems, which have policies I too see as unworkable and a bit hectic). Labour need another leader, any would do (besides Harman, Cooper or Balls). Douglas Alexander perhaps? They need a rethink on some of their policies and put them in line with some green/snp policies and that will achieve more votes, ATM I can't think of many decisive policies they have. Immigration too, they need to get real on that.

    The Tories I like but I fear they are becoming more and more business centric and keeping up with UKIP policies (rather disastrously - look at Theresa May's plans to stop students from abroad coming to the UK). UKIP need to give a plan which will state what they will do about the EU after we leave (trade? policies?), it's well and good countering a problem but contingency plans need to be in place. Inequality is a big problem ATM and I would be behind Labour for 2015 if they actually had a decent leadership.


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    (Original post by CalDem)
    Scotland provides 9.4% of total UK revenue despite only having 8.4% of the UK's population? On the other hand, that 8.4% receive 9.2% of UK spending - and that is while our economy plays second-fiddle to the South East, it's clear we would be doing even better if the UK government wasn't completely ignoring us.

    Internationally, British Government business marketing ignores Scotland completely and it's tourism marketing only touches a little on Loch Ness and the surrounding area - a bumf**k nowhere that is by no means our greatest offerings.

    A prime example of this is the Dept. for Business, Innovation and Skills which held a British Business Expo in Glasgow during the Commonwealth Games and did not show a single Scottish product. This was to tourists who had already shown interest in Scotland by coming here - perfect candidates for Scottish products.
    You're numbers, although manipulated and not taking into account the additional £1200 per head government spend, and the fact that Scotland runs a deficit and not a surplus- the 8.4% it gets back is more than the 9.2% it puts in, was based on GERS figures from 2008.

    You may have noticed that nobody from SNP hq has bothered recalculating that snazzy strap line, more will they for the foreseeable future.

    Could you tell me how the UK governments marketing if Scottish business's fails? Firstly, it's not the mandate of UKTI to specifically promote companies from one part of the UK over another. The clues in the name, UK trade And investment. Not UK and Scotland trade And investment.

    If you're concerned bout Scottish companies not getting promoted abroad then you'll have to have a word with Scottish enterprise who work for Holyrood. So just to sun that up, if you're a Scottish company then you can pull on the resources of UKTI and Scottish enterprise. How's that holding Scottish companies back?

    You're just trying to promote victim hood aren't you?
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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    not taking into account the additional £1200 per head government spend
    That is taken into account as that extra £1200 comes from programs funded by the Holyrood budget which is included in the figure.

    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    It's not the mandate of UKTI to specifically promote companies from one part of the UK over another.
    No, it's not their mandate, but they just happen to favour English business more than the three other countries that also pay for it.

    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    If you're concerned bout Scottish companies not getting promoted abroad then you'll have to have a word with Scottish enterprise who work for Holyrood.
    Yes, which we pay for ourselves, out of our budget.

    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    So just to sun that up, if you're a Scottish company then you can pull on the resources of UKTI and Scottish enterprise. How's that holding Scottish companies back?
    Because UKTI (DBIS) don't use a representative amount of their resources on Scotland.

    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    You're just trying to promote victim hood aren't you?
    If the systemic victimisation shoe fits.
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    (Original post by CalDem)
    That is taken into account as that extra £1200 comes from programs funded by the Holyrood budget which is included in the figure.


    No, it's not their mandate, but they just happen to favour English business more than the three other countries that also pay for it.


    Yes, which we pay for ourselves, out of our budget.


    Because UKTI (DBIS) don't use a representative amount of their resources on Scotland.


    If the systemic victimisation shoe fits.
    The additional £1200 isn't taken into account with the figures. It throws it in there. If there wasn't an additional £1200 per head spend then the GDP per capita is actually Lower. Once again though, you're numbers are old and won't be getting recalculated by the SNP hq for some time.

    UKTI has a mandate to promote all UK business. Or actually, it has a mandate to support all UK business that approaches it for support.

    You are aware that UKTI has a huge headquarters in Glasgow?

    you know the Germans in the 30s used to say how hard done by they were and they were victims.
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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    You are aware that UKTI has a huge headquarters in Glasgow?
    I wasn't, no. Whereabouts is that?

    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    you know the Germans in the 30s used to say how hard done by they were and they were victims.
    Reductio ad Hitlerum, if you want to give up on any actual argument, just compare them to the Nazis.
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    (Original post by CalDem)
    I wasn't, no. Whereabouts is that?


    Reductio ad Hitlerum, if you want to give up on any actual argument, just compare them to the Nazis.
    It's on the east coast along the river Clyde.

    Merely highlighting that nationalists like to blame their woes on somebody else. That's why I liken the SNP to UKIP.
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    (Original post by ModernHistorian)


    I have nothing to argue with about the result as you are correct. However, Scotland needs to be give the respect it deserves and the powers which it requires to be an affluent and prosperous country.
    I think the first thing you need is the oil price to double so you become potentially financially viable as a country again. Ah if only you'd voted yes everyone in England & Wales would be laughing their heads off at your approaching oblivion...
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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    you know the Germans in the 30s used to say how hard done by they were and they were victims.
    The SNP and the Nazis were chums back in the day. They try to keep that one quiet though...
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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    It's on the east coast along the river Clyde.
    Glasgow (and therefore the Clyde) are on the West of the country?

    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    Merely highlighting that nationalists like to blame their woes on somebody else. That's why I liken the SNP to UKIP.
    You didn't compare the SNP(and by extension all Scots nationalists) to UKIP tho, did you? You compared us to the Nazis.
    That's civic nationalism vs ethnic nationalism - a completely different ball game and rather offensive comparison.
    Even UKIP are a bit too far a comparison, always on about their 'Judeo-Christian roots'
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    (Original post by CalDem)
    Glasgow (and therefore the Clyde) are on the West of the country?


    You didn't compare the SNP(and by extension all Scots nationalists) to UKIP tho, did you? You compared us to the Nazis.
    That's civic nationalism vs ethnic nationalism - a completely different ball game and rather offensive comparison.
    Even UKIP are a bit too far a comparison, always on about their 'Judeo-Christian roots'
    I got my east and west mixed up. But you'll find that UKTI has a large hq in Glasgow servicing most if the UK.

    Civic, or ethnic, when you get a grouping saying 'we're different and people who used to belong to our club no longer do.' Then that's worrying.
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    (Original post by CalDem)
    Glasgow (and therefore the Clyde) are on the West of the country?


    You didn't compare the SNP(and by extension all Scots nationalists) to UKIP tho, did you? You compared us to the Nazis.
    That's civic nationalism vs ethnic nationalism - a completely different ball game and rather offensive comparison.
    Even UKIP are a bit too far a comparison, always on about their 'Judeo-Christian roots'
    Where are UKIP on about their "Judeo-Christian roots" ?


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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    Civic, or ethnic, when you get a grouping saying 'we're different and people who used to belong to our club no longer do.' Then that's worrying.
    That's not what civic nationalism is about tho. It's about saying anyone can be a part of our nation no matter where they're from or what they look like, as long as they want to help work together to better each other.

    Can I ask where you are from? Just because you don't seem to have a grasp on the feelings of politics in Scotland. I've been assuming England but just realised you haven't actually stated.
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    (Original post by CalDem)
    That's not what civic nationalism is about tho. It's about saying anyone can be a part of our nation no matter where they're from or what they look like, as long as they want to help work together to better each other.

    Can I ask where you are from? Just because you don't seem to have a grasp on the feelings of politics in Scotland. I've been assuming England but just realised you haven't actually stated.
    I'm from Scotland.

    Please don't assume that your views are the same as everybody else's in Scotland.

    Remember there was a referendum. You're side lost. My side won.
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    (Original post by MrJAKEE)
    Where are UKIP on about their "Judeo-Christian roots" ?
    It's one of Farage's favourite sayings (even though it effectively boils down to white Anglicanism)

    Product of a quick Google search:
 
 
 
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