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As a Yes voters, I believe Scotland should have it's own forum for Scottish Politics Watch

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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    I'm from Scotland.

    Please don't assume that your views are the same as everybody else's in Scotland.

    Remember there was a referendum. You're side lost. My side won.
    Yes by all means, you are correct that your side won. But I don't think everyone agrees with me, my incessant arguments with people about politics would give evidence to that fact. On the other hand, you still still seem a little out of touch if you think the Greens are on the fringe and the indy movement is only the SNP.
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    (Original post by CalDem)
    Yes by all means, you are correct that your side won. But I don't think everyone agrees with me, my incessant arguments with people about politics would give evidence to that fact. On the other hand, you still still seem a little out of touch if you think the Greens are on the fringe.
    The greens are on the fringe because at the moment UKIP is polling 7% and the greens are polling 4%.

    You're obviously a member if the Green Party, who hangs around with other members of the Green Party. But it's a fringe grouping by numbers. Not as much of a fringe grouping as the SSP. They're just shouty nobody's.
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    (Original post by CalDem)
    It's one of Farage's favourite sayings (even though it effectively boils down to white Anglicanism)

    Product of a quick Google search:
    Fair enough. I don't see what's wrong with standing up for our history and heritage? Not mention I can't find a single link that shows he perpetuates selectively "white" Anglicanism.

    On your point on another post about the Green Party :http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...s-9652413.html
    Still relatively small at 6%. Quite a fringe party in terms of FPTP.

    On another note, why do you not like Margaret Thatcher? Is it more personal or do you genuinely believe she choose the wrong economic policy?


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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    The greens are on the fringe because at the moment UKIP is polling 7% and the greens are polling 4%.

    You're obviously a member if the Green Party, who hangs around with other members of the Green Party. But it's a fringe grouping by numbers. Not as much of a fringe grouping as the SSP. They're just shouty nobody's.
    I'm not even in the Greens, I just like playing the devil's advocate. I've been an SNP member for years
    back when they were the only ones with any push towards indy. They are by-far much more of a people's party than Labour are right now I am most-certainly on the left of the SNP tho.

    I have great respect for the Greens, and I expect the Green-Independent Technical Group will have 8-10 MSPs at the next Holyrood election.
    The SSP/Solidarity types are idealist pipe-dreamers and while I wouldn't quite say 'respect' is the word for them, they seem like thoroughly nice people.

    I certainly don't surround myself with people with the same views as me, I have close family who are both Labour and LfI and a close cousin who is an avid Scottish Left Project/SSP activist. My flatmates are both Tory and I have other close friends who are Tory, Labour, apolitical and one who we are convinced is a Kipper.

    Good wee chat tonight!
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    (Original post by CalDem)

    I'm not even in the Greens, I just like playing devils-advocate. I've been a SNP member for years - back when they were the only ones with any push towards indy. They are by far much more of a people's party than Labour are right now I am most-certainly on the left of the party tho.

    I have great respect for the Greens, and I expect the Green-Independent Technical Group will have 8-10 MSPs at the next Holyrood election.
    The SSP/Solidarity types are idealist pipe-dreamers and while I wouldn't quite say 'respect' is the word for them, they seem like thoroughly nice people.

    I certainly don't surround myself with people with the same veiws as me, I have close family who are both Labour and LfI, my flatmates are both Tory and I have other close friends who are Tory, Labour, apolitical and one who we are convinced is a Kipper.

    Good wee chat tonight!
    Every party is the people's party. We live in a democracy.
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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    Every party is the people's party. We live in a democracy.
    Don't even start me on that one... haha
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    (Original post by MrJAKEE)
    On your point on another post about the Green Party :http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...s-9652413.html
    Still relatively small at 6%. Quite a fringe party in terms of FPTP.
    That article is about the Green Party of England and Wales. The Green Parties split in the 90s to Scotland, E&W and NI. They now just have a relationship to each other consisting of a friendly nod. But the Scottish Greens are becoming increasingly respected after people found out during the IndyRef that they actually existed.

    (Original post by MrJAKEE)
    On another note, why do you not like Margaret Thatcher? Is it more personal or do you genuinely believe she choose the wrong economic policy?
    Yes, I genuinely disagree with her economic policies.
    But more than that, I think anyone that can believe-in and implement her policies at-large must also have a severely unlikeable personality. For example, the Tory leadership right now and their welfare policies; anyone that can do what they're doing to the poor must be a grade-A cu*t.
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    (Original post by CalDem)
    That article is about the Green Party of England and Wales. The Green Parties split in the 90s to Scotland, E&W and NI. They now just have a relationship to each other consisting of a friendly nod. But the Scottish Greens are becoming increasingly respected after people found out during the IndyRef that they actually existed.


    Yes, I genuinely disagree with her economic policies.
    But more than that, I think anyone that can believe-in and implement her policies at-large must also have a severely unlikeable personality. For example, the Tory leadership right now and their welfare policies; anyone that can do what they're doing to the poor must be a grade-A cu*t.
    Oh I know that bit about the parties split even still Green Party support, growing yes, is still relatively minor.

    Why do you agree with her economic policies? What do you disagree about them? I'm intrigued about how so many Scots could dislike her - mainly I assume because of how her policies made a lot of them unemployed. I think a lot of the Welfare policies the Tories are doing currently is good/in need. I think it is absolutely disgraceful how some people in work can get paid less than some out of work for an extensive period. Reducing child benefits to 2 children is also a good idea IMO, can't afford em don't have em.


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    (Original post by ModernHistorian)
    As a Yes Scotland/SNP/Alex Salmond/Nicola Sturgeon supporter I do believe Scotland is entitled to it's own forum on TSR for Scottish Politics.

    Then again, this perhaps illustrates that the UK Government still regard Scotland as a pet.
    I'm fine for that as long as Wales, Ireland and England can have their own politics forum too.
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    (Original post by MrJAKEE)
    Oh I know that bit about the parties split even still Green Party support, growing yes, is still relatively minor.

    Why do you agree with her economic policies? What do you disagree about them? I'm intrigued about how so many Scots could dislike her - mainly I assume because of how her policies made a lot of them unemployed. I think a lot of the Welfare policies the Tories are doing currently is good/in need. I think it is absolutely disgraceful how some people in work can get paid less than some out of work for an extensive period. Reducing child benefits to 2 children is also a good idea IMO, can't afford em don't have em.
    The main issue with her economic policy was that she wasn't particularly good at economics

    Her policies caused a long, deep, unnecessary recession in the 80s, followed by a short boom, then another recession in '91. There's also the fact that trickle-down economics has never been shown to work - greed is too strong an influence. And yes, her deindustrialisation hurt Scotland a lot, this was not only unsound for Scotland but for the UK as a whole too. She scrapped successful industries in favour of unemployment. In essence, I'm a believer in Keynesian economic theory. I believe that the public purse can be much more efficient as it doesn't have to consider competition in the same way.

    Work should pay, of course it should, but cutting welfare doesn't make work pay any better. They tackled the wrong end of the welfare/employment income difference. They should have made work more appealing (i.e. higher wages) in order to get the economy moving. An economy can't function if it's workers don't make enough to buy it's good and services.

    And the thing the government don't tell you is that most people claiming benefits are not unemployed. They're the people with jobs but still making such a little amount of money that they can't afford to live so the government has to make up the difference - It's a subsidy to the corporations at the expense of the tax payer.

    Talking of tax, the corporations aren't paying any, and the government is fine with that. And I am not fine with that!

    I don't know where I fall on the child benefit. There are situations where you can't help but have another child; rape, religious against contraceptive, religious against abortion. But at the same time we shouldn't be encouraging people to live beyond means.

    The current government has us in more debt and a deeper deficit that when they took power. Their strategy is to tell you that it's because of the welfare system and they need to make cuts to it - but it's made no positive difference so far, making things worse actually. The real cause of our economic woes is the practice of laissez-fair capitalism, the taxation of people and small companies while large corporations get a free pass.

    Don't get me wrong, Labour are not the answer, they're just Tories with red ties. Ed Milliband and the entire Labour leadership could easily pass as the right-leaning Lib Dem or centre-leaning Tories of 35/40 years ago. The GPEW are the only nationally-active party in England that offer any real alternative, but, as you say, they're tiny.
    At least in Scotland we have the SNP, the Scottish Greens, and the independents who implement protective measures to counteract Westminster. But the Holyrood budget is always getting squeezed from down south and the are areas we are constitutionally barred from legislating on, it's only a matter of time before Westminster completely breaks the bow.
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    (Original post by illegaltobepoor)
    I'm fine for that as long as Wales, Ireland and England can have their own politics forum too.
    1)Northern Ireland.
    2)Yes, NI and Wales should have their own too.
    3)There's no devolved legislative body for England only, so hmm...
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    (Original post by ModernHistorian)
    SNP is currently the only party in Scotland which will lead to a 'leftish' Government. They are the only party currently with Collectivist approach, we must ensure that this opportunity is not wasted.

    UKIP scare the hell out of me. As a 16 year old, I fear greatly for my future children.
    Lol. Well, at least I find what you wrote amusing.
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    I believe the UK covers all five constituent countries.
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    I see no reason for TSR to pander to the whim of a bunch of lefties who want to rip apart my homeland.

    Written to you by a Scot and Englishman in equal measure.
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    (Original post by CalDem)
    The main issue with her economic policy was that she wasn't particularly good at economics

    Her policies caused a long, deep, unnecessary recession in the 80s, followed by a short boom, then another recession in '91. There's also the fact that trickle-down economics has never been shown to work - greed is too strong an influence. And yes, her deindustrialisation hurt Scotland a lot, this was not only unsound for Scotland but for the UK as a whole too. She scrapped successful industries in favour of unemployment. In essence, I'm a believer in Keynesian economic theory. I believe that the public purse can be much more efficient as it doesn't have to consider competition in the same way.

    Work should pay, of course it should, but cutting welfare doesn't make work pay any better. They tackled the wrong end of the welfare/employment income difference. They should have made work more appealing (i.e. higher wages) in order to get the economy moving. An economy can't function if it's workers don't make enough to buy it's good and services.

    And the thing the government don't tell you is that most people claiming benefits are not unemployed. They're the people with jobs but still making such a little amount of money that they can't afford to live so the government has to make up the difference - It's a subsidy to the corporations at the expense of the tax payer.

    Talking of tax, the corporations aren't paying any, and the government is fine with that. And I am not fine with that!

    I don't know where I fall on the child benefit. There are situations where you can't help but have another child; rape, religious against contraceptive, religious against abortion. But at the same time we shouldn't be encouraging people to live beyond means.

    The current government has us in more debt and a deeper deficit that when they took power. Their strategy is to tell you that it's because of the welfare system and they need to make cuts to it - but it's made no positive difference so far, making things worse actually. The real cause of our economic woes is the practice of laissez-fair capitalism, the taxation of people and small companies while large corporations get a free pass.

    Don't get me wrong, Labour are not the answer, they're just Tories with red ties. Ed Milliband and the entire Labour leadership could easily pass as the right-leaning Lib Dem or centre-leaning Tories of 35/40 years ago. The GPEW are the only nationally-active party in England that offer any real alternative, but, as you say, they're tiny.
    At least in Scotland we have the SNP, the Scottish Greens, and the independents who implement protective measures to counteract Westminster. But the Holyrood budget is always getting squeezed from down south and the are areas we are constitutionally barred from legislating on, it's only a matter of time before Westminster completely breaks the bow.
    Recessions are natural in capitalism, they are meant to happen, so long as the general trend towards economic growth is upwards. I think you'll find she scrapped unsuccessful industries that were being heavily subsidised by the government (eg the mines, where coal became cheaper to import from abroad than to pay here in the UK). The whole essence in her economic policies was competition, which would inevitably bring down prices for the consumer so long as companies all fought for the money of the consumer - which I agree works when regulated to avoid companies working with each-other to fix up prices. At the end of the day she gave a reality check to much of Britain, we were spending too much in subsidising these particular industries along with paying workers way too much (some workers regularly worked ridiculously low hours) for the productivity they had. This extra price went off to the consumer as the business itself had to take the shortfall. Not to mention the undemocratic trade unions who held a disproportionate amount of power and authority than they should have - if you don't know about it look up the Winter of Discontent. If you don't agree that this is wrong then I think a serious look at economics would be of great benefit to you! Not that I'm not open to new ideas.

    Unemployment benefits is something I personally believe should reflect how long and how much a person has been giving their taxes to the government, but I would like to benefits reduced in return for more education expenditure etc. As a social libertarian myself I feel morally the government should have very little to do with our lives - except some key services (NHS, schools etc) should remain along with a progressive tax structure. I looked at your info page and saw you put yourself down as "social libertarian" when I can't seem to find anything remotely libertarian in your post (with regards to economics) whatsoever? You said that the economy can't function if it's workers don't have enough money, well it can and certainly is if you are suggesting it isn't now (unless I am secretly living in an economically apocalyptic state where there is no money?). Yes there is an optimal point where wages are important but we should be very careful in raising taxes in a globalised world (which are needed to offset higher wages to a degree). If a company doesn't want to invest here they could always go to another country in Europe with a lower tax rate, losing investment and so jobs. It is therefore so that to fight in economically in the world lower taxes are needed, I would agree that this is "unfair" but at the end of the day it is the Russian tycoons etc wanting to flock their cash in London house markets etc that are keeping this economy afloat. In an ideal world yes I'd love everyone to be on higher wages but it is serious when it comes to our competitive edge abroad. As for tax avoidance, well I think it's harder to recoup that money than they think, but nevertheless I'd like to see MPs get off their backsides and start working for a solution.

    The government currently has us in more debt because they have followed Keynesian policies, they won't admit it but they have borrowed even still to invest in industries or to offset the cost in failing ones (+rising social benefits). During every recession this is done (if you look at all past recessions), and so I think that is a tad but unfair to say that the Tories are maleficently scrapping welfare, I know that if Scotland was independent and it was in a similar situation and cuts had to be made every Scot would play the blame game on Holyrood - but now I see many scots blame Westminster instead as it's the easier option, yet Swinney regularly says that his actions are the reason why Scotland isn't in a mess. A country is like a business, you should never spend more than you earn in the long term! Your statement also on the deficit being larger is also factually incorrect.


    I'd like to see a more democratic process with the inclusion of minority parties so parties like the Greens had influence on government decision (ie a Labour-Green coalition would be possible).



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    (Original post by ModernHistorian)
    I do believe Scotland is entitled
    Half the ****ing problem with nationalists.
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    (Original post by CalDem)
    It's one of Farage's favourite sayings (even though it effectively boils down to white Anglicanism)
    Is the Archbishop of York part of white Anglicanism?
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    (Original post by CalDem)
    In practice, Blair doesn't count as Scottish. And we wish Brown didn't.
    Oh for the love of buggery. Sitting pontificating on who is sufficiently Scottish.

    Gordon Brown is still very popular in Scotland.


    In what way do we disrespect you? Is self-determination disrespectful?
    I remind you that the nationalists weren't arguing for self-determination, they were arguing for separation, attacking the British state and abusing the politicians English people had elected.
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    Not to mention being condescending, talking about how Scots are more socially aware.
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    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    Lol. Well, at least I find what you wrote amusing.
    Your amusement sickens me, along with your choice of avatar. For all you know I am Jewish.
 
 
 
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