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As a Yes voters, I believe Scotland should have it's own forum for Scottish Politics Watch

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    (Original post by MrJAKEE)
    Recessions are natural in capitalis

    Don't even get me started on Capitalism!
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    I'd like to see a more democratic process with the inclusion of minority parties so parties like the Greens had influence on government decision (ie a Labour-Green coalition would be possible).

    And as for this, unfortunately I doubt that this coalition would be successful. Considering Greens support Scottish Independence and Labour were very much against it. However, it does fundamentally sound more managable than the current Government of UKIP/Conservative Government.
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    (Original post by ModernHistorian)
    I'd like to see a more democratic process with the inclusion of minority parties so parties like the Greens had influence on government decision (ie a Labour-Green coalition would be possible).

    And as for this, unfortunately I doubt that this coalition would be successful. Considering Greens support Scottish Independence and Labour were very much against it. However, it does fundamentally sound more managable than the current Government of UKIP/Conservative Government.
    I don't know why you've changed what I've said on my quote? But oh wells. I've said previously that I would like to see a more democratic electoral process, I find it truly pathetic on the British public's part that only about 40% turned out for the referendum on the alternative vote and they voted about 66% to keep FPTP. Do the public not know it was better than the shambles we have now? They are lunatics. This included all areas of the UK.

    The Green Party as another said is split between England/Wales and Scotland and NI. Obviously the Green Party in England isn't for Scottish independence and I doubt it's one of their key issues. And I never knew we had a UKIP/Conservative government, Nigel must have got his claws in already!


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    I thought you were discussing Scottish Greens. My apologies for sloppiness I had little sleep as I was following this discussion!
    Nigel Farage - modern day Nazi! Please tell me that you aren't a supporter?

    Capitalism only seems to cause problems. The only affluent Government I can think of, which I am aware of anyway was the Labour Government of 1918. They introduced reforms for all vulnerable areas of society and even kept unemployment below 3%, however this perhaps was due to the War.
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    (Original post by ModernHistorian)
    I'd like to see a more democratic process with the inclusion of minority parties so parties like the Greens had influence on government decision (ie a Labour-Green coalition would be possible).

    And as for this, unfortunately I doubt that this coalition would be successful. Considering Greens support Scottish Independence and Labour were very much against it. However, it does fundamentally sound more managable than the current Government of UKIP/Conservative Government.
    I did not mean to include that in your quote. I mean don't get ME started on Capitalism. Still getting used to TSR.
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    (Original post by ModernHistorian)
    Your amusement sickens me, along with your choice of avatar. For all you know I am Jewish.
    That is Putin.
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    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    That is Putin.
    That is Hitler.
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    scottish nationalism is funny, and adorable
    awww, scotland thinks they're special
    they're not special, they're pests!
    who take english money for scottish anti-english policies in many cases!
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    (Original post by ModernHistorian)
    That is Hitler.
    Lol. No. It is Putin with a Hitler moustache and hair.

    It is fairly obvious when you look at it.
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    Offensive either way.
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    (Original post by ModernHistorian)
    Offensive either way.
    Well that's a not a surprise since Scottish Nationalists are such great fans of Putin and his actions in Ukraine.
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    (Original post by ModernHistorian)
    I thought you were discussing Scottish Greens. My apologies for sloppiness I had little sleep as I was following this discussion!
    Nigel Farage - modern day Nazi! Please tell me that you aren't a supporter?

    Capitalism only seems to cause problems. The only affluent Government I can think of, which I am aware of anyway was the Labour Government of 1918. They introduced reforms for all vulnerable areas of society and even kept unemployment below 3%, however this perhaps was due to the War.
    It's fine haha I understand :-)

    He isn't a nazi geez, immigration is a serious problem which I don't think affects Scotland very much. I live in Kent and the first place any migrants come is usually Dover from Calais. It's a big issue down here in the south, I know people who've been "bullied" out of work through non integration and low wages which are unliveable here but in many places in EE quite a bit. I will never understand why people support uncontrolled immigration (except the highly needed immigrants, eg doctors nurses etc) when there are about a million people still unemployed. Scotland is far away from problems down here and so the SNP want to use Farage as a symbol of the "nasty", far right alternative scaling the rest of Britain in south, which is quite simply addressing a lot of people's concerns down here. I'm a supporter of several things he says but would never vote for him. He needs to start addressing contingency plans for leaving the EU and a clear economic/social policy.

    I'm not even going to start on your second paragraph lol I think you need to learn some history. It was the Conservative Party who won and no the government wasn't affluent, it was straight after WW1 with trouble in Ireland and other British colonies starting off. I seriously doubt that they kept unemployment down at 3% too seeing as much of Europe was in recession at the time.


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    (Original post by ModernHistorian)
    I'd like to see a more democratic process with the inclusion of minority parties so parties like the Greens had influence on government decision (ie a Labour-Green coalition would be possible).
    The reason the Greens are a minority party is because they are wacky.

    They support zero economic growth, on the economically illiterate belief that growth somehow involves endless exploitation of natural resources.

    When they've been in power - as in Brighton and Hove - it has almost been a parody of the 1980s jokes about loony-left boroughs: from gender neutral toilets to proposing a referendum on a tax increase that would have cost more to run than the tax increase would have yielded!

    Up here in Scotland, they opposed the Commonwealth Games in Glasgow, instead suggesting we spend the money on a social enterprise factory. Bonkers.

    Frankly I don't want fringe parties having anything whatsoever to do with the business of government.
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    (Original post by ModernHistorian)
    Capitalism only seems to cause problems .
    Except of course that capitalism has improved the living standards for everyone in this country at an amazing rate since the Industrial Revolution, and continues to do so. Our world is advancing at a remarkable pace: life expectancies have increased beyond all expectations, we have vanquished hundreds of crippling diseases, even our poor can easily afford luxuries unaffordable to Roman Emperors, our leisure time has increased and so on.

    We have a major success story here which has been running for decades and shows no sign of ending. Every year we are producing technology that is improving the lives of millions: whether in food production, entertainment, or healthcare.
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    (Original post by L i b)
    Except of course that capitalism has improved the living standards for everyone in this country at an amazing rate since the Industrial Revolution, and continues to do so. Our world is advancing at a remarkable pace: life expectancies have increased beyond all expectations, we have vanquished hundreds of crippling diseases, even our poor can easily afford luxuries unaffordable to Roman Emperors, our leisure time has increased and so on.

    We have a major success story here which has been running for decades and shows no sign of ending. Every year we are producing technology that is improving the lives of millions: whether in food production, entertainment, or healthcare.
    Perhaps it is partly successful. However, it encourages a wealth gap between the richest and poorest. In my opinion, it is a system which supports the upper classes welfare.
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    I as a Loyalist Reactionary High Tory of the Church of England believe any attempt to destroy the British state is unlawful and should be crushed with violence. So good luck.
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    (Original post by ModernHistorian)
    Perhaps it is partly successful. However, it encourages a wealth gap between the richest and poorest. In my opinion, it is a system which supports the upper classes welfare.
    A system of differential wealth is the only one that can encourage innovation, change and progress. No other system could ever reasonably be put in place.

    As for "upper classes", that language is a remnant of the feudal era. Capitalism is about production, about trade and about value - it superseded feudalism, and has done a great deal to break down inherited wealth and social class.
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    My view on Scottish independence is that Scotland isn't a nation state. It is an economic core or a country which geographical area with people in it. The Border region of Scotland doesn't want to leave the British state and the Islands don't want to be part of a Scottish state. So we are left with an economic core of the central belt, Highlands and Western Isles which would form a Scottish state. Scotland could also have some 30% of its population who would be Loyal to the British state and if the British state supported them it would destroy the Scottish states ability to enforce its will within its territory. Even though I don't believe the British state would do so, I do think Loyalist like myself would support the Loyalists in Scotland.
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    (Original post by ModernHistorian)
    Offensive either way.
    How is that offensive? Oh so you love Putin and his treatment of his people then?

    I can't wait for the SNP to get some powers though, only so that when they screw it up they'll actually have to take some responsibility instead of blaming anyone else.
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    (Original post by CalDem)
    The main issue with her economic policy was that she wasn't particularly good at economics

    Her policies caused a long, deep, unnecessary recession in the 80s, followed by a short boom, then another recession in '91. There's also the fact that trickle-down economics has never been shown to work - greed is too strong an influence. And yes, her deindustrialisation hurt Scotland a lot, this was not only unsound for Scotland but for the UK as a whole too. She scrapped successful industries in favour of unemployment. In essence, I'm a believer in Keynesian economic theory. I believe that the public purse can be much more efficient as it doesn't have to consider competition in the same way.

    Work should pay, of course it should, but cutting welfare doesn't make work pay any better. They tackled the wrong end of the welfare/employment income difference. They should have made work more appealing (i.e. higher wages) in order to get the economy moving. An economy can't function if it's workers don't make enough to buy it's good and services.

    And the thing the government don't tell you is that most people claiming benefits are not unemployed. They're the people with jobs but still making such a little amount of money that they can't afford to live so the government has to make up the difference - It's a subsidy to the corporations at the expense of the tax payer.

    Talking of tax, the corporations aren't paying any, and the government is fine with that. And I am not fine with that!

    I don't know where I fall on the child benefit. There are situations where you can't help but have another child; rape, religious against contraceptive, religious against abortion. But at the same time we shouldn't be encouraging people to live beyond means.

    The current government has us in more debt and a deeper deficit that when they took power. Their strategy is to tell you that it's because of the welfare system and they need to make cuts to it - but it's made no positive difference so far, making things worse actually. The real cause of our economic woes is the practice of laissez-fair capitalism, the taxation of people and small companies while large corporations get a free pass.

    Don't get me wrong, Labour are not the answer, they're just Tories with red ties. Ed Milliband and the entire Labour leadership could easily pass as the right-leaning Lib Dem or centre-leaning Tories of 35/40 years ago. The GPEW are the only nationally-active party in England that offer any real alternative, but, as you say, they're tiny.
    At least in Scotland we have the SNP, the Scottish Greens, and the independents who implement protective measures to counteract Westminster. But the Holyrood budget is always getting squeezed from down south and the are areas we are constitutionally barred from legislating on, it's only a matter of time before Westminster completely breaks the bow.
    Would you mind telling me what successful industries were scrapped?

    The loss making ship building industry? Or the loss making steel industry? What about the loss making coal industry?

    The current government doesn't have us in deeper deficit, but I don't know what answer your looking for? The SNP advocated increased public spending which would've left us with an even bigger debt and a bigger deficit.
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    (Original post by ModernHistorian)
    I'd like to see a more democratic process with the inclusion of minority parties so parties like the Greens had influence on government decision (ie a Labour-Green coalition would be possible).

    And as for this, unfortunately I doubt that this coalition would be successful. Considering Greens support Scottish Independence and Labour were very much against it. However, it does fundamentally sound more managable than the current Government of UKIP/Conservative Government.
    Which democratic processes would you like to see improved?

    Why should minority fringe parties be given a disproportion say in how things are run?
 
 
 
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