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Nigel Farage named 'Briton of the year' by the Times Watch

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    (Original post by Observatory)
    Ultimately Powell was a somewhat otherworldly academic, a brilliant man, and a poor politician. I think he actually had little interest in being a politician. He made speech after speech pointing out that policies that had been engaged for the sake of expedience of because of inertia were shambolic and incoherent and would create problems for the future; he never realised - or tried hard not to realise - that the creation of such policies for the maximum possible short term gain is the job of a politician.
    He wasn't so much a poor politician as an excellent statesman who was born half a century after his time.
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    (Original post by Observatory)
    I think he knew what he was doing but did it anyway, because speaking the truth as he saw it was more important to him. That's what made him a bad politician.

    Farage has some similar views - he would like to legalise all drugs for instance - but he keeps them hidden.
    Well, as he didn't especially accomplish anything he can't be said to have been a successful politician and as he could have done but did not you could say he wasn't a good one either but was he not until he felt the need to make such an impassioned speech, which sounds like a fatalistic last appeal to the public rather than a political move as such, increasing in popularity.
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    (Original post by Le Nombre)
    Call me cynical but i suspect this is part of a Murdoch campaign to big up UKIP across the NewGroup stable and increasingly put the wind up Lab and Con as their poll scores rise. Consequently, when he throws his weight behind one he can get more concessions to his requests for doing so.

    Or maybe Rupert's not interested in that sort of thing
    Ha, Rupe is very interested indeed - he's been having dinner with Farage for some time and clearly sees him as a useful tool. The general aim of News Corp globally is to achieve a zero-tax environment for all of their business activities. In the UK, this was previously achieved by manipulating New Labour and the Tories, but that's got harder recently. I'm sure Nige has stepped forward to fill the gap! As a libertarian, a Monday Club man and a died in the wool Thatcherite with a bitter hatred for the state, Farage is committed to the non-payment of taxes by all companies and particularly by very wealthy people like Rupert.

    It's all really lovely.

    Shame about the Times though, it used to be a paper worth reading at one time.
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    I think your later point comes down to their aims and ambition.

    You (correctly I think) highlight in a further post that Powell by that point had no desire to achieve power, he was an insider who simply disagreed with policies of the day vehemently.

    On the other hand though Farage is able to effectively move through the weapons fired at him because he has chosen to be an outsider and has since either actively developed political ambition or sees gaining power from the outside as the only way to achieve his goal (I think its the former personally). By trading on an anti-establishment image he attracts voters who don't care about politically correctness and in many cases would sacrifice their own beliefs for an end to immigration.
    Powell also talked about the black man having the whip hand over the white man. That's why he was such an easy target. Future politicians with far right ambitions have learned to avoid that kind of rhetoric.
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    (Original post by Birkenhead)
    He wasn't so much a poor politician as an excellent statesman who was born half a century after his time.
    He probably would have liked that time better than his own, but I'm not sure he would have fit into it any better. He would either have been a liberal-***-socialist troublemaker, or an empire loyalist legitimist troublemaker. I don't see him getting on with the likes of Lloyd George, Baldwin, or Chamberlain any better than MacMillan and Heath.

    Think Winston Churchill but without the (largely unexpected and unintended) triumphant return in 1940.
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    The Times probably thought it would stir up debate and sell a few more papers.

    As for the comparison between Farage and Powell, I think it is unfair to both of them, and it came from Russell Brand who should be treated as a former Big Brother spin-off presenter and nothing else.
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    (Original post by perfectsymbology)
    Powell also talked about the black man having the whip hand over the white man. That's why he was such an easy target. Future politicians with far right ambitions have learned to avoid that kind of rhetoric.
    He's an easy target because he is dead. The face that has been projected onto his corpse - by opponents and supporters - is only tenuously related to what the man actually said or believed.
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    (Original post by Observatory)
    He probably would have liked that time better than his own, but I'm not sure he would have fit into it any better. He would either have been a liberal-***-socialist troublemaker, or an empire loyalist legitimist troublemaker. I don't see him getting on with the likes of Lloyd George, Baldwin, or Chamberlain any better than MacMillan and Heath.

    Think Winston Churchill but without the (largely unexpected and unintended) triumphant return in 1940.
    FE Smith built a glamorous career of enormous success on tormenting and humiliating Liberals and even fellow Conservatives. His relations with the people he tore to pieces in public were often very warm in private, and he worked especially well with Lloyd George. He also wanted to merge the Liberals and Tories to form one anti-socialist party.

    He was also able to make speeches encouraging Britain to march 'with heads erect along the road of its imperial destiny' with little to no effect on his reputation or prospects - in fact, that particular war-mongering speech saw him beat HG Wells and John Simon to the Rectorship of Glasgow university. Compare this to the effect Rivers of Blood had on Powell.

    It's plainly obvious that had his career taken place half a century earlier Enoch Powell would have fitted in better and been more appreciated and I daresay probably even have been Prime Minister over the likes of Bonar Law.
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    (Original post by Birkenhead)
    FE Smith built a glamorous career of enormous success on tormenting and humiliating Liberals and even fellow Conservatives. His relations with the people he tore to pieces in public were often very warm in private, and he worked especially well with Lloyd George. He also wanted to merge the Liberals and Tories to form one anti-socialist party.

    He was also able to make speeches encouraging Britain to march 'with heads erect along the road of its imperial destiny' with little to no effect on his reputation or prospects - in fact, that particular war-mongering speech saw him beat HG Wells and John Simon to the Rectorship of Glasgow university. Compare this to the effect Rivers of Blood had on Powell.

    It's plainly obvious that had his career taken place half a century earlier Enoch Powell would have fitted in better and been more appreciated and I daresay probably even have been Prime Minister over the likes of Bonar Law.
    I know very little, and clearly far less than you, about Birkenhead. I would say that on that particular example, Birkenhead was defending a policy that already existed and that could not plausibly be ended simply by choice. In that sense he wasn't being much of a troublemaker. Powell was opposing an established policy supported by all sides including the Prime Minister endorsed by his own party.

    Now maybe Powell would have been at home as a conservative (in the purely semantic sense) fifty years before. He would almost certainly have been more at home. But I think more than anything he had an independent mind and was attracted to points of disagreement, not points of agreement. I'm not at all sure he would have been an empire loyalist, but if he were, I doubt he would have been a fuddy-duddy one like Bonar Law. He would probably have supported an Imperial Parliament, or something else that would have angered the entire establishment class. Irish home rule is another minefield in which Powell could easily have blown off his political legs, advocating something consistent and sensible but hostile to vested interests and the conservative supporters of taking the path of least resistance in any circumstance.
 
 
 
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